CRD Vision

[Vega]

3. if blood trail (which is a good idea in my opinion) wont make it into this mod neither will this.

For the love of God drop the blood trail idea entirely.

[LennardF1989]

3. if blood trail (which is a good idea in my opinion) wont make it into this mod neither will this.

For the love of God drop the blood trail idea entirely.

Why, I like it as well. It could be added as an additional effect, it doesn't necesary mean the merc can find you this way.

It will add a certain amount of realism, which is always nice (I don't want be playing a Science Fiction game afteral).

[frvge]

Meh, if it's 2-3 drops lost in the general direction the Spy went after he was shot, I'm fine with it. More = bad for balance.

[LennardF1989]

Meh, if it's 2-3 drops lost in the general direction the Spy went after he was shot, I'm fine with it. More = bad for balance.

As I said, additional effects.

What I would also like are body decals, eg. shoot spy or a merc teammate and you'll see a bullet hole with some blood at the point of entry.

[AgentX_003]

Meh, if it's 2-3 drops lost in the general direction the Spy went after he was shot, I'm fine with it. More = bad for balance.

As I said, additional effects.

What I would also like are body decals, eg. shoot spy or a merc teammate and you'll see a bullet hole with some blood at the point of entry.

Kinda like this :P   

[LennardF1989]

More like this  ;D

[Vega]

Why, I like it as well. It could be added as an additional effect, it doesn't necesary mean the merc can find you this way.

It will add a certain amount of realism, which is always nice (I don't want be playing a Science Fiction game afteral).

We could argue all about the discrepancies involving a trail, but if you've read the blood trail ideas, almost, if not all of the proposed ideas, state something resembling the following: "I think it would be really cool if a merc shot a spy and he would leave a blood trail because this would allow the merc to follow the blood trail and find the spy and that would be really cool and realistic!"

I even oppose having a blood trail give away the general direction of a spy.  It's already easy enough for a mercenary to find a spy with his sound reticle, motion tracking, EMF, laser, flashlight, spy traps, presence detectors, camnet, and the detonation of mines (many times a spy's position is given away with the detonation of mines).  I don't oppose the idea of having more ways to find spies, I just oppose the idea of blood trails.  If you want more ways, the phosphorus footsteps + EMF was a practical idea.

I couldn't care less about body decals, as they have absolutely zero significance on balance.  Blood trails, on the other hand, have everything to do with balance.  The problem is that most people look at blood trails simply as a "cool effect" rather than the cause and effect of its implications.  

[LennardF1989]

I wasn't really speaking of a full blood trail (sorry for being vague). I mean, it's more than normal that a drop of blood would reach the ground once someone is injured.

While I agree that full blood trails (aka: shoot the spy and it keep dripping 5 minutes) imbalance the game, there's nothing wrong with a short blood dripping effect which only endurates for a couple of seconds.

[frvge]

A few seconds is too long. I'm thinking about 0.1-0.3 secs after a spy has been injured. That way, it's mostly an effect.

[LennardF1989]

A few seconds is too long. I'm thinking about 0.1-0.3 secs after a spy has been injured. That way, it's mostly an effect.

I think I'll just have to implement it as an adjustable timer, so we can see how it affects our test games. It's all guessing games what we're doing now anyway.

[frvge]

Good idea.

[Westfall]

Why, I like it as well. It could be added as an additional effect, it doesn't necesary mean the merc can find you this way.

It will add a certain amount of realism, which is always nice (I don't want be playing a Science Fiction game afteral).

We could argue all about the discrepancies involving a trail, but if you've read the blood trail ideas, almost, if not all of the proposed ideas, state something resembling the following: "I think it would be really cool if a merc shot a spy and he would leave a blood trail because this would allow the merc to follow the blood trail and find the spy and that would be really cool and realistic!"

I even oppose having a blood trail give away the general direction of a spy.  It's already easy enough for a mercenary to find a spy with his sound reticle, motion tracking, EMF, laser, flashlight, spy traps, presence detectors, camnet, and the detonation of mines (many times a spy's position is given away with the detonation of mines).  I don't oppose the idea of having more ways to find spies, I just oppose the idea of blood trails.  If you want more ways, the phosphorus footsteps + EMF was a practical idea.

I couldn't care less about body decals, as they have absolutely zero significance on balance.  Blood trails, on the other hand, have everything to do with balance.  The problem is that most people look at blood trails simply as a "cool effect" rather than the cause and effect of its implications.  

lol...way to contradict yourself completely. If you don't want blood trails to be present because its easy to find a spy, then why the hell would we ADD more eq for the merc?

Also, who said anything about the trail lasting forever? I don't really remember people saying the trail of blood should be there so the mercs can find the spy. However, it is easily justifiable that if the spy gets shot, is bleeding, goes a small distance and tries to stay still and heal...then the merc should be able to follow the trail. I also believe that if there were to be a trail of blood, it should remain the entire game. I DON'T believe that if the spy gets shot he should bleed for a great period of time. Seriously, like 1-3 seconds.

[Vega]

lol...way to contradict yourself completely. If you don't want blood trails to be present because its easy to find a spy, then why the hell would we ADD more eq for the merc?

True, I meant to edit that out actually.  For the record, I don't completely oppose the idea of being able to find spies more easily but I think what we already have is, generally speaking, sufficient enough.  There are some good ideas here and there that I'm more open to; I.E. phosphorus + EMF.   

Also, who said anything about the trail lasting forever? I don't really remember people saying the trail of blood should be there so the mercs can find the spy. However, it is easily justifiable that if the spy gets shot, is bleeding, goes a small distance and tries to stay still and heal...then the merc should be able to follow the trail. I also believe that if there were to be a trail of blood, it should remain the entire game. I DON'T believe that if the spy gets shot he should bleed for a great period of time. Seriously, like 1-3 seconds.

I don't know: who actually said the blood trails would last forever?  Not me.  All I know is that I've seen multiple times people say something along the lines of "I think spies should leave a blood trail for mercs to follow."  This doesn't mean forever but it certainly means long enough for balance to be considered.  By the way, why are you bringing up the theoretical realistic justification of a blood trail?  That has nothing to do with gameplay balance and is similar to saying "It's justifiable that a spy dropping from 30 feet in Digger room should kill a mercenary with full health instantly if he successfully landed a drop tech."

My main beef with the blood trail is how easy it is to obtain.  You shoot the spy and he now leaves a trail of blood; at least the phosphorus + EMF idea requires you to hit the spy with a phosphorus grenade.  You have to take these factors into consideration and it seems unnecessary to add such an easily accomplishable tracking method to an already adept hunter.  Yes, if the blood trail lasts for only a second then it's worthless, but I'm arguing against the whole notion of 'following a blood trail to locate a spy.'

The whole "1-3 seconds" idea seems too ambiguous to even argue about.  One second is nothing at all and practically pointless.  Three seconds is actually a decent amount of time and could change gameplay; barely at all or significantly -- I can't tell since that is up to play testing.

[InvisibleMan999]

1) Detecting the spies while they are crouching and moving slowly is generally bad. That's partly why MT is currently overpowered in MT...you can't sneak up on a merc unless he decides not to turn around for 6 years because you have to go too slow. However, I hope that the devs didn't take out the 360 degree detection for a spy who is running because the mercs will most likely need that to fend off aggro.

2) The fact that you can detect a spy through walls and all sorts of other things while he's moving slow per above is also bad because the spy has no way of knowing that he was detecting. In other words, if I stand up as a spy and start moving around, I know that I pinged the mercs' reticles. I know that they'll come soon. If I'm moving about carefully, I don't know if and when the mercs switch on wallhax vision.

Yeah, not to mention that stealth is already pretty difficult in this game, we don't need to nerf it further by having a vision that can "see" you when you're in a vent and moving slowly.

[Gawain]

i'm agreeing with vega, spekkio and invisibleman mostly on this whole bs ideas.