Author Topic: Tips on making a map.  (Read 9311 times)

Offline Snakebit.

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Tips on making a map.
« on: March 12, 2009, 09:20:54 AM »
I am bored a bit and have nothing to do so ill post some info which should be considered for devs while creating a map. (Considering that the speed of the game will remain the same + 2vs2)

1st Of all lets talk about objectives. What kind of objectives do we have ? Bomb - Nd - Drop.

How many is the optimal number of objectives ? Depends on the map , if its a warehouse like map with 1 big sector then the optional level is 4-5 . Its very easy to hold 3 objectives which makes that map rather hard for spy , really depends on how many times you can sleep the merc and flash/smoke/chaff his mate while your mate is passing the mines and hacking the nd. A good map shouldn't rely on that to much. Also they should be Either 5 nd's (Hacking objectives preferable linked to each other) or 3 Disc objectives with drops at spawn. You can also try a big sector with 10 or more bomb spots that would be fun. THe time on the bomb should be adjusted , it has never been done in a warehouse like zone (Museum doesn't count , mercs don't camp together in 1 room there)

If its a map like club house (Full of hacking nds) Like spekkio suggested previously it will need SOME if not MANY static traps which LOCK (Note lock and not alarm) the nd so that taz/run won't be that of a super easy tactic. The nds should be coverable and not be that far away from each other. 7-8 seconds by foot . 
Camping tactics should be possible because on this map it will decide the winner its really hard to hold ALL nds  , 2-3 will usually get taken. (With 6 nds on map and 4 need to be taken like club)

Orphanage 1st sector like is really bad. Deppends on luck to much. It is just impossible to hold and that sector will get taken . Experience shows that 3 bombs = very bad for merc , impossible to hold. SPy doesn't need to stand still while blowing up the bomb , he will cover it so stoping it isn't as easy as an nd and a merc can't be in 3 places at the same time which makes 3 bombs in 1 sector a very bad combo.

Disc drops . Its a big problem if you have lag , you just can't stop host drop if you are lagging in some server. Disc drops are very ping reliant on stopping and dropping. If you can't kill that runner with snipe or spray he will most probably drop it. Disc drops like in aqua are a good idea where either take or drop is 'protected' in a way . By a door or something like that.

Another good thing is that there should be +1 or +2 objectives on maps Not more. Better +1 . For example there are 4 objectives you need to take 3. Its better when there are 4 or under in total objectives than you have +1 and 5 and above +2 because taking objectives is very time / camp reliant . Camping +2 objectives is harder so it takes less time to take them and thats why there should be more objectives to take in general. But it really depends on the objectives. If they are mostly hacks then obviously +1 is better if they are mostly bombs/disks then +2 might be okay.


Station like maps are good but a bit edited. You can say that sector 1 is devided in 3 sub sectors there. Spy spawn with fence / Sub zone between spy spawn and discs / Disc zone - each of them are devided by a fence or sorts which sector 1 a bit hard. If you remove the fence between sub zone and hacks the sector becomes nice (hack the doors to nds in ct that usually works). Notice how sector 2 of station is really nice .

Mount Hospital like map ( Small ,compact, long tunnels and a lot of nds). I don't really like maps like that , they are to much based on taz / run / flash / hack / don't get blown up by a mine strategy . If you can do that fine then you will win it for sure. May be i just don't like that tactic to much because if been doing it a lot since the start of ct and probably one of the best guys doing it , so i know how it pisses people off...Well certainly it adds a lot of action elements to the game but also makes it dumb agro like for most , well i actually use stealth in mount but not that much well usually people don't even try to.

Maps are a lot dependable on tactics you use on them. Don't misunderstand me you need to take them into account in creating a map. Its not like i am saying that you should make maps 'privately for snakebit tactics' but just take them into consideration. Okay now lets talk about tactics for maps a bit .

Double teaming or 1 hacks other plays with merc . This tactic is very annoying if you are lagging AND the nd is hard to shoot . For example museum inside nd or polar base container nd . If you lag + hard to shoot its impossible to stop nd against a good pinger . But if its only hard to shoot its still hard , most of the time the other guy will take around 5-6 seconds for sure , and if the agro guy is good then you might say bye bye to the nd . Well you have your friend to help you but usually he can't be all the time with you.

Nd run and hack . When 1 sector 1 merc 1 spy and 2-or more hacking nds that is certainly a big option. Either make a lot of defenses or more time on nds but not to much. Usually getting jumped / cammed / necked means instant loose of nd on this maps because they were probably abused a bit before you got cammed.........

Running between unstopable hacks. You can run between g1/g2 alone vs 1 merc and its 99% sure you will take 1 if your mate doesn't help you. Its just impossible to stop that running in the lift alone. You might go to garden outside but then the spy would usually go to objectives you are far away from. So for the love of god please don't make 2 nds on floor 1 and 2 where you need to go by a lift to stop it. Lift takes 3-4 secs to arrive. Not to mention 1-2 additional secs because of taz + medical kit nearby . Thats one of the worst possible combos in ct possible. Furthermore the lift is blockable by your mate so its not like you can't stop the merc from going up or down but its a bit harder to accomplish.

Make some places to hide here and there. They are needed to regenerate health and not to turn the game into run/taz/flash. Many maps encourage that because there are simply no places to hide . Museum cafe for example. Sector 3 warehouse for most but people from pt know where to hide in there .

Museum and Ware are classic maps in SvM so i would like to seem them return in ps. Museum should get it random lasers system and mono vent  back. Random lasers SHOULD lock the doors not the nds in exo / mono corridors and Ware sector 1 needs more nds. For example 1 between the huge crates  and 1 more under the 3 crates hole which is shielded pretty good . (Its near ladder )

Lets return to the tactics. Some nds are just dodge nade / hack  - dodge nade / hack . (Digger behind wall nd or Schremen up nd ) This nds are not that bad . Takes skill to dodge nades so i am not really against them .

More to come in the near future may be .

Offline frvge

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Re: Tips on making a map.
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2009, 11:32:34 AM »
Only one map will be inspired by CT, and that's Lakehouse.
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Offline Snakebit.

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Re: Tips on making a map.
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2009, 01:02:02 PM »
Damn i posted it in the wrong forum so can you please move it to public discussion scworld ?

I ment in general. While creating a map take that in consideration. There is a need for 'some' rules for creating a good and BALANCED map . I could care less for maps if they are not balanced but balance is a
'relative' word. For some its balanced for some its not. And there should be 'some guidelines' which could help developers creat a balanced map. Let all people type what they think. And by developers i don't just mean normal classic developers (ps team) but people who will be able to get ps editor and will probably start creating a map. Not only that but there are a lot of people creating maps for ut in general so the prob is that ut3 is not a SvM type like game. So they will need some help with creating maps for ps if they want to.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2009, 01:12:49 PM by Snakebit. »

Offline VaNilla

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Re: Tips on making a map.
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2009, 06:25:17 PM »
Personally I want to see a successful stage map made :P.

Offline Snakebit.

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Re: Tips on making a map.
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2009, 02:36:21 PM »
Personally I want to see a successful stage map made :P.

Stage map ? what the hell is that ?

Offline frvge

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Re: Tips on making a map.
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2009, 02:42:33 PM »
Maps with stages... Warehouse, Station, Missile Strike etc. Maps without stages: Clubhouse, Aquarius etc.
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Offline Westfall

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Re: Tips on making a map.
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2009, 05:10:48 PM »
"Sector" map

Offline Snakebit.

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Re: Tips on making a map.
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2009, 01:35:36 PM »
Well coming from my exp .... People don't like 'sector' maps that much. It doesn't allow rush after taking 1 nd and it limits the tactics.

Warehouse , Deftech , Missile , Bank - Usually people don't play those maps that often. Station and Orphanage are the only sector map that people play more or less often.

I personally don't find those maps bad or imbalanced but a lot of people do........


Offline goodkebab

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Re: Tips on making a map.
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2009, 02:32:09 PM »
Making a good looking map requires an Artist with a signficant amount of artistic skills and sofware knowledge.


Making a balanced map that plays well,  requires  a great deal of knowledge of game design.

Game playing skills are not required,  but understanding the addictive fun factor of a successful game is an absolute must.

Offline goodkebab

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Post mortem of Splinter cell
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2009, 02:38:45 PM »

Offline goodkebab

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Re: Tips on making a map.
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2009, 02:43:38 PM »

Map Designer gives an interview of working on Chaos Theory  (versus mode)


http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/1785/multiplayer_level_design_indepth_.php

Offline Snakebit.

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Re: Tips on making a map.
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2009, 03:22:48 PM »
Some understanding of those skills is required. Note i said some not total. Its not like you gonna put 4 bomb sites in 1 sector. THat would be almost impossible to hold.

THe links are nice by the way.

Offline goodkebab

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Re: Tips on making a map.
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2009, 03:56:09 PM »
being able to visualize in 3d space,  and understand  the scale of a map is important.

Basic questions like how tall a room is,  how long a corridor needs to be,  and the actual time/distance between objectives are all very important.


Game designers are not required to build a map,  but they will need to sketch out a blueprint for an Artist.

Then it will need to be playtested,  and timed to make sure players can get to objectives with reasonable time constraints.  Then things like vents  and stealth routes need to be created and tested.

A major reason we designed Lakehouse around clubhouse was that we needed to take a proven map layout  that works so that we could with confidence create a balanced map.  It evolved from there of course and is definately new for the players,  but as devolopers, we need to strictly control ourselves with proven layouts so that we do not screw things up and spend to much time trying to balance things.

No need to try and re-invent the wheel here.

Offline Snakebit.

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Re: Tips on making a map.
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2009, 05:44:27 PM »
I don't think lakehouse is the same as club house from the vid by the way. It might have the same shape but the corridors are different. So i don't think that clubhouse balance will apply to lakehouse for sure.

Offline frvge

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Re: Tips on making a map.
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2009, 05:46:44 PM »
I agree. It will definately be different, but we'll see that during testing.
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Treat your customers with respect you make more customers. Treat your customers like pirates, you make more pirates.