Breaking the mold

[Vega]

Alright guys, tinweasele and Daybreak were talking about alternatives for the game when it came to completing objectives.  I've been thinking the same thing for the past month or so while trying to think up of a CT map.  We all know there is the standard hacking (terminal), bombing objective, and extraction.  I thought of some new ones that could be done to add some flavor.

Dual/Coop Hacking â€" This is a type of hacking that requires two or more players to do.  It is basically a “coop move” hack where both players have to hack terminals at the same time.  The terminals would be right next to each other or very close.  This hack would add variety.  I thought that if two spies were able to hack something together, that they should get rewarded.  Subsequently, the dual/coop hack will take a shorter amount of time due to the danger that both of them are in (1 frag = 2 deaths).

Multi-Tiered Hacking â€" Different from the standard hacking which that when one terminal is finished, a new objective/door is revealed that allows another hack to be accomplished.  Cooperative hacking might be included with this.  Basically, you hack one objective, it opens a new room to hack another objective.  It's sort of like a reward system.  These types of hacks will be obvious and would best be used with team work and possibly aggro.

Security-Clearance Hacking â€" For maps that have this objective, all mercenaries will carry a special security card that allows them to go in and out of certain special areas.  These special areas will contain objectives that can only be reached by having a security card.  Dead mercenaries drop security cards that can be obtained by the spies which then can use them to get into the special areas.  You can kill a merc to get his card or follow him stealthy (this will be hard since there is only one way in) into the "special area."  This adds yet some more flavor to the game by adding another way of entering an area full of objectives.  What's great is that how hard it is to get into this room.  I'm thinking that the only way to get into this room is the main door that requires the security card.  No vents to get into.  It's suppose to be a hard place to get into but if done then it's rewarding.

NATURAL SECRUITY (stuff like cameras and lasers):

Touch Sensitive Floors â€" The floors are touch-sensitive and will set off an alarm if stepped on (only if a spy steps on it, objects like grenades do not count for balance purposes).  To disable, a button or special terminal must be activated.

Heat Sensitive Room â€" The room is heat sensitive and any spy who enters the room will set off the alarm.  To disable, a spy must have a special thermal suit or activate a button or hack a special terminal (same  type of terminal to shut off lights in bank, open doors in club, etc).


I honestly think this stuff could be added to newly created maps if you wanted to spice up the current way of playing.  Feel free to bash or comment on the ideas, I don't mind at all.

[frvge]

The security thingy was also meant for SCCT. With 'dog tags'. Eventually it was transformed into Disk Hunt AFAIK.

[Tinweasele]

Moving lazer fields.

Static sound detectors.

different modes entirely perhaps 4v4 CTF style.  Large map, big wall unpassable by spies in the middle,  2 spies 2 mercs per side.

FFS active camo > camera.

coop style devices,  perhaps trip wires?  networking for faster hacks if both attempt within certain distance(more = better with decryption)

multi stage maps(see MGS3)  perhaps a jungle approach to a base, followed by infiltration.  (probably rather large with lots of static defences)

electrified fences and related gadgets

the possibilities are ENDLESS.  Lets push this game as far as we can.

[Jordan]

For the touch-sensitive floor, it should only be set off by fast moving spies. It keeps the spies stealthy instead of being overly aggressive.

Lazer fields would be a great addition to maybe a map where you steal diamonds.

Heat sensitive cameras might be alright, not sure about the room itself.

Good suggestions guys.

[goodkebab]

i am going to set a couple limitations to avoid situations like Station or Wherehouse.


1. 1 spy must be able to complete the map
2. Coop objectives and routes are to enhance the gameplay and tactics but NOT be required to complete map. (like station)
3. security grids must be able to be surpassed with speed and efficiancy.  ( 6 lasers to shoot out is bad design)

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touch sensitive floor sounds cool....

[Tinweasele]

i agree with efficiency but not speed, the ability to speed through defences leads to the point on museum where i can dash through the entire map and not set off a single alarm because i have them memorized.

[goodkebab]

factory corridors is a good example of a good and efficient security system.....where experienced spies can still get past withought shooting out.  That leaves room for the feeling of accomplishment and reward for stealth.


or orphanage, where there was always a way to get past security at the risk of exposing yourself.

[Overstatement]

You should all keep in mind that less is more. For discussion, it's ok to throw out any ideas you may have but when making a map, it would be really annoying to have 4 NEW features per map just for the sake of having new features. Quantity does not make a map good. Go with features that can be put on multiple maps, those proven to be reused in multiple situations and focus on designing your features to fit the level, not designing your level to fit the features. But that's just my opinion.

[goodkebab]

I should also mention that we really need to concern ourselves with keeping it a clone in the beginning and add to it later.

[Overstatement]

Hmm...who says you can't do both at the same time? If you really are going to make a mod, you will use the engine's map file format and map editor. You could get all the programming stablized and release whatever to modify the edtior so non-member level designers can start making maps the same time the mod-makers are. So by the time the mod comes out, there are already community made maps available for play. It would be a great PR move to keep interest before the mod is released!

Edit: Obviously this can't apply to every map concept, only the ones that are trigger-based (like touch-sensitive floors) and maybe script-based.

[goodkebab]

i dont see why not...we just dont want to fight ourselves with risking balance issues.  Low level changes shouldnt be a problem, but introducing new weapons or gadgets (or removing for that matter) changes things in a big way and requires a great deal of play testing to balance.

Our current plan is build a level in CT, and port it when we can start using the Unreal Engine 3.0.

I am not going to tell you guys to hold back on ideas, cuz some of them are really awesome. 

[Vega]

i am going to set a couple limitations to avoid situations like Station or Wherehouse.


1. 1 spy must be able to complete the map
2. Coop objectives and routes are to enhance the gameplay and tactics but NOT be required to complete map. (like station)
3. security grids must be able to be surpassed with speed and efficiancy.  ( 6 lasers to shoot out is bad design)

agreed, the ideas I was mentioning are more like "extra" areas such as the room in factory that gets broken into when the digger is activated.

You should all keep in mind that less is more. For discussion, it's ok to throw out any ideas you may have but when making a map, it would be really annoying to have 4 NEW features per map just for the sake of having new features. Quantity does not make a map good. Go with features that can be put on multiple maps, those proven to be reused in multiple situations and focus on designing your features to fit the level, not designing your level to fit the features. But that's just my opinion.

Good point, I think most of this stuff could be added to only new maps and not existing maps for balance purposes.  I just want to play a map that isn't the standard security system/hack objective type.

[Exile]

hi, some ideas for improved CT.

Merc: Floormines, only seen when using nightvision
      : Lock-up system, when a merc enters a room he has the possability to lock up every door in that room(spy can only escape through vents)
     : poisonmine that can only be healed at a healthbox not by spy buddy.
     : accurate bash(radius of impact)
Spy: share stickycam view(when turned on in ur profile)
     : escape manoeuvres as in DA(1 button that sets off an action like a dive or a quick swing on the ceiling)
     

......to be continued

[Overstatement]

I think we need seperate threads, one for game ideas and one for map ideas. And if it's been done in DA, it isn't your idea, is it?

[Exile]

I didnt say it were my ideas....but whatever

The point is to improve CT, that can be done by some DA features.Escape manoeuvres are the best new edition to spy in DA so it's a good idea to use this in the clone.