Sound detection and material properties

[Kurbutti]

This thread is yet another query for the devs, and this time I'm curious about the sound detection systems that PS will hopefully have in time. I don't except any of this stuff to be programmed yet, good if even schemed, but still, in the light of the Lennard's recent programming update, I got interested in the materials.

From Lennard's post it's obvious that you can determine the look and classification of a material and how the game's components such as the visions react to it, but instead of visuals let's focus on the sound, both the audible and the technical one. So this is it: Is it possible to make a custom values on how loud or quiet some material is going to sound? For example, I'm going to make a carpet, and I want to it sound more silent.  (I bet this sounds familiar to some) Could I just use any step sound effect from the game and just tone down the volume to fit my needs, or do I have to create an entirely new sound for each material?

Here's the second question that's going to be a bit more complicated than the previous one. In SCCT's SvM, we had a sound detection system that picked up "noises" based on movement speeds, regardless of the material or the volume of the audible sound effect.  Technically, it was possible to make walking sound like scratching a plate with a fork and still go silent for the merc's sound detector. Is the concept going to remain as the same in CT, or do you plan to improve it somehow, make it more dependant on what's actually there to be detected, rather than just setting a few values, that tell the game when to beep?

The third question is something more of an engine property than anything else. Let's s assume you could either of the previously mentioned sound detection systems: (fixed values based on movement speeds or the variable detection based on material properties) Is it possible to make a room completely soundproof?

That will be all for now, and I'm happy to elaborate any of the points in my post, if needed. Thanks.

[frvge]

1) we're thinking about that, but we arent that far yet.
2) depends on 1. Will probably be improved somehow.
3) dunno. Maybe Lennard can answer it. We havent spent much time in the sound department yet, besides Theodore's music and browsing through effect-libraries.

[InvisibleMan999]

For intuitiveness, if you're making sound on your own speakers by moving, you should be pinging the reticule based on the intensity of that sound. Personally I'd make it a direct correlation, where the radius you can ping the reticule is directly proportional to the sound you're hearing.

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

Yes, pinging in all directions when you're too loud.
That'd make sense.

[Gawain]

For intuitiveness, if you're making sound on your own speakers by moving, you should be pinging the reticule based on the intensity of that sound. Personally I'd make it a direct correlation, where the radius you can ping the reticule is directly proportional to the sound you're hearing.

that would be awesome, but would need an obvious indicator on the suit/hud and some basic guidelines so that you don't have to be uba-pro at sneaking to do it with some speed and reliability.

i really think getting the sound right will be the hardest balancing act.
it would be a good thing to allow the map makers to define how much sound get's through a certain wall (also other stuff: bass travels better through concrete than heights for instance) and how well it reflects sound; maybe setting sound ranges and areas might work out, but what do i know about coding XD

[Kurbutti]

All good points. However, I'd add that the sound meter will be essential if the noise level wound be material-dependant... Otherwise complete stealth would be next to impossible, especially if there are no standardized values for each materia.

Plus, noise indicator would be a great help for the players, both for vets and newbs.

it would be a good thing to allow the map makers to define how much sound get's through a certain wall (also other stuff: bass travels better through concrete than heights for instance) and how well it reflects sound; maybe setting sound ranges and areas might work out, but what do i know about coding XD

It would be cool, but way too complex for the players to memorize: In addition to learning the basic layout, they would have to know the type and details about every surface, and that would be too much for this game... Plus  the mapmaker would get an insane advantage. All in all, the effect would be too trivial, and most likely too time consuming to code, if even possible.

Some soundproof rooms could be cool, sure, but perhaps the sound detecotr should be more reactive within, say, 6-8 meters from the merc's location, and less reactive beyond that range.

There you have some new ideas.

Discuss.

[I <3 U]

Here's the second question that's going to be a bit more complicated than the previous one. In SCCT's SvM, we had a sound detection system that picked up "noises" based on movement speeds, regardless of the material or the volume of the audible sound effect.  Technically, it was possible to make walking sound like scratching a plate with a fork and still go silent for the merc's sound detector. Is the concept going to remain as the same in CT, or do you plan to improve it somehow, make it more dependant on what's actually there to be detected, rather than just setting a few values, that tell the game when to beep?

Having the sound reticule based on the material spies are interacting with is more logical and realistic and would improve gameplay. Genius.

For intuitiveness, if you're making sound on your own speakers by moving, you should be pinging the reticule based on the intensity of that sound. Personally I'd make it a direct correlation, where the radius you can ping the reticule is directly proportional to the sound you're hearing.

+1. Awesome Idea.

[Gawain]

It would be cool, but way too complex for the players to memorize: In addition to learning the basic layout, they would have to know the type and details about every surface, and that would be too much for this game... Plus  the mapmaker would get an insane advantage. All in all, the effect would be too trivial, and most likely too time consuming to code, if even possible.

what i want is realistic sound physics, thus intuitive, and, unless we implement tons of different speeds, not that hard to master.

[Kurbutti]

It would be cool, but way too complex for the players to memorize: In addition to learning the basic layout, they would have to know the type and details about every surface, and that would be too much for this game... Plus  the mapmaker would get an insane advantage. All in all, the effect would be too trivial, and most likely too time consuming to code, if even possible.

what i want is realistic sound physics, thus intuitive, and, unless we implement tons of different speeds, not that hard to master.

Hehe. Keeping it that real could eventually become adverse to the gameplay, as the modern architechture developes over time - PS will be in the future, right? Heck, if someone would make a map out of the place where I live, sound detection would be useless. Not saying my house is from the future, though...

[LennardF1989]

Actually, the materials don't tell the game anything, the PSStaticMesh where the material is applied on does. And unfortunately, we can't access BSP stuff (eg. walls) from the code, so we also can't retrieve properties :/

We haven't really looked into material properties yet, so I can't tell you how the sound system is going to work. But I'm sure we'll think of something to specify loudness for materials and fadeoff points, just like the idea for the visions that came out of nowhere ;) All we need is a brainstorm session and some limitation testing.

About the soundproof room, sure, it would be similair to EE events where the room is filled with a volume which tells the game to drop sound made within that volume.

Edit:
Actually, now that I think off it, we might be able to retrieve the used material it's name with traces (google that - UnrealScript Trace - ;) It retrieves the actor it hits, thus say the wall, I'll test it tomorrow).

[Spekkio]

I made a thread on this subject a while back. I think the whole sound/shadow/detection system is the biggest place where PS can be a huge improvement over CT, rather than fiddling around with gay new gadget ideas.

[MR.Mic]

I made a thread on this subject a while back. I think the whole sound/shadow/detection system is the biggest place where PS can be a huge improvement over CT, rather than fiddling around with gay new gadget ideas.

Can you find it again? I'd like to give it another read.

[Kurbutti]

http://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/index.php/topic,659.0.html

I think that was it. Now it's just a question of how the game will technically react to those sounds. In other words, what sets off the detector and what doesn't, and what different factors are involved.

[Gawain]

I made a thread on this subject a while back. I think the whole sound/shadow/detection system is the biggest place where PS can be a huge improvement over CT, rather than fiddling around with gay new gadget ideas.

QFE

[Neverdown]

I made a thread on this subject a while back. I think the whole sound/shadow/detection system is the biggest place where PS can be a huge improvement over CT, rather than fiddling around with gay new gadget ideas.

So much win.

+1000

Thinking about it, correcting the sound makes many gadget-related problems disappear, like "omg camo iz 2 loud!!!11" and "GMO didn't hear zEh minez!".