CRD Vision

[Tidenburg]

This is a renewed version of the PD idea I had a while ago, quite a few people said the PD was a good concept but, as usual by ubi, executed poorly. This comes in the form of a VISION instead and i've rebalanced it. Don't be too harsh because it's not somthing CT had and was in the game which soiled SC's good name. Read with an open mind! :P

Split into Q&A's for your ease of reading ;)


What does it stand for?
CRD Vision stands for Close Range Disruptance Vision

What does it do?
When CRD is flipped on the vision will overlay purple, just like any other vision. When any movement is detected nearby a shock is sent through the waves which pass across the vision. The faster the movement the more disturbance is caused. It can detect a spy moving much more effectively than the sound sensor as it has a slightly higher range and can detect a spy moving slower than the SD.

How does the spy know this vision is on?
The merc visor will turn purple and a high pitched (but pulsating so the user doesn't think the sound is broken) sound is emitted. This can be heard from outside the detection range of the vision.

What will count as movement?

• A Spy moving/falling
• A team-mate moving/falling
• A door opening
• Grenade, flares and other projectiles
• A spy pulling out a weapon (easy to mistake for other low level disturbances like a door).

Cons?
For starters, the sound it makes will mean spies will almost immediately know you are near, making this vision one for tracking spies general areas instead of chasing them down because they could just stop moving. Also, it picks up allot of excess disturbance such as doors, which will could be misinterpreted as spy movement. The merc is, for the most-part, blinded while using the vision and cannot have a torch on or another vision. The vision cannot be used while moving because the vision relays disturbance and not sound meaning that anything moving nearby, including yourself will set the thing off.

Why not just use the SD?
Firstly, the sound detector has a weaker radius and isn't as sensitive. CRD can pick up thing which usually do not make sound, such as a spy pulling out his gun or falling because it detects disturbances in the atmosphere around you.

What does it look like?
No disturbance detected

Low disturbance detected

High/Medium disturbance


So kind of like the Proxy Detector from DA?
Yup. Quite a few people liked the proxy from DA, and not just utter noobs. The idea itself was good, but the fact that turning it on had no disadvantages to the merc and only detected a spy made it too overpowered and ruined the fun of the hunt. CRD makes up for this by not giving any clear indication to distance (like DA's 3-ring system) or direction, the distubance in the air could be anything from an explosion to a door. It also keeps the PD's con of emitting a sound.

Discuss. If you're going to critic it just because it's somewhat related to the PD from DA then take it elsewhere.

;)

[frvge]

The only pro from MT is that it works through walls because the sound would somehow reflect off the walls?

I think it's almost the same as MT... reacts to motion, since there has to be motion for sound to exist (speakers excluded, but there wont be (any/many?) speakers to begin with.

[Tidenburg]

Pfftt I said about 5 times it doesn't detect sound. Motion tracking only works in your direct line of site but this works in a large sphere around you. :P

[Westfall]

why have a vision when you can have the simple ping the sound reticule gives?

[Tidenburg]

Because it has no disadvantage to the merc if he keeps it permenantly switched on, a reason loads of people hate the PD in Double Agent.

[Vega]

Motion tracking only works in your direct line of site but this works in a large sphere around you. :P

Actually, MT has a decently big 360 degree field of view centered around the merc.


Now onto your vision idea.  Nice presentation for one.  The idea itself is interesting and has some good points.  One thing to note is that you should change the name.  'Disruptance' isn't a word as far as I know and it sounds a little silly to say "Close Range Disruptance."  Essentially, a fitting word to use would be 'proximity' but I'm assuming you want to have a unique name.  Something involving "Wave Disruption" in the name may work better than what you have currently. 

I've got some questions to ask you; these may be redundant, since your vision detects movement and not sound, but I want to ask these for clarification.

1.  Does this vision detect all movement by a spy?  Even silent walking?  Climbing a ladder?  What about a spy lifting itself up a ledge?
2.  You say it detects a spy pulling out its gun -- what if a spy pulls out his gun silently?  In CT, if you held 'e' (default shocker key) then your spy would pull out his gun silently and with no laser.  Does CRD detect this as well? 

It could be argued for the two questions above that anything involving a silent attribute (silent walking and silent gun drawing to be exact) would require smoother and slower movement of the spy; as a result, emitting low or zero disturbance in CRD mode.

The idea of CRD has merit, a more acceptable version of the DA proximity detector for sure.  It would be used to scan a large room quickly but without such precision as in DA.  It's a neat idea, although it needs to be looked at in multiple situations.  I think it's worth testing, as I can already see this being very powerful in certain situations, but the same could be said about the sound reticle.  This really needs to be delved into further to get a proper analysis, but frankly I'm not up for that at this time  :P  A more detailed comparison between the SR and CRD modes would be helpful.

[Westfall]

Because it has no disadvantage to the merc if he keeps it permenantly switched on, a reason loads of people hate the PD in Double Agent.

And I'm not talking about the PD of DA....I'm talking about the Sound Reticule of CT, which was a very effective tool that we also saw in PT. I don't see the necessity for another vision that's going to do the exact same thing as the sound reticule. If it's such a big to do, make the reticule a gadget.

[Vega]

Actually, Westfall, they are quite different, but having them both be default equipment for a merc would be a little excessive and probably overpowered.  Having the CRD as a gadget is another topic.  

To clarify for everyone, let's look at an example of a merc in digger room equipped with both the CRD and SR; for all intents and purposes, as the SR's radius in CT would have covered the entire digger room, we'll assume the CRD does the same.  Here is a drawing to help:

*Error with picture*

In the above drawing, always assume that fish get thirsty, and always assume the mercenary and spy are at the above positions for the following premises.  If SR or CRD detects the spy, I'll use yes or no.

-If the spy is standing or crouching still: SR=No, CRD=No
-If the spy is crouch walking: SR=No, CRD=Yes
-If the spy is silent walking: SR=No,CRD=Yes
-If the spy is walking: SR=Yes, CRD=Yes
-If the spy is running: SR=Yes, CRD=Yes
-If the spy is climbing: SR=No, CRD=Yes
-If the spy is drawing a weapon: SR=No, CRD=Yes
-If the spy is falling: SR=Yes(when he inevitably lands), CRD=Yes
-If a mercenary teammate moves: SR=No, CRD=Yes
-If a grenade, flash, or other projectiles go off: SR=Yes, CRD=Yes
-If a door opens: SR=Yes?, CRD=Yes

I'm sure there are others, and I could be wrong about a few, but that's a general list to show the differences.  One major difference, using the above image to help, is that a mercenary could know that a spy is in digger even when he is crouch/silent walking.  He won't know his exact location, but every extra bit of information is going to help.

Some differences that I didn't mention about the SR and CRD is how precise each one is.  Using the above image again, if the spy walked/ran upright at any point while the mercenary was there, then he would have set off the SR and given the merc an accurate position.  If the CRD vision was used for this scenario, then it would also trigger, but the merc wouldn't have a precise position like the SR gave.  However, this scenario is also depending on the spy walking and essentially making a mistake -- as we know, this isn't the most concrete way of determining balance.  

Tidenburg,
Honestly, even though this vision needs more experimental scenarios, I feel that one of it's biggest drawbacks, more so than the fact that you affect it yourself, is that it is affected by your teammates movement.  It's principles are similar to the SR -- what if your merc teammate was capable of triggering your SR?  It would severely hinder its use.  It's the same thing with the CRD vision.  One advantage CRD vision would have if it wasn't triggered by your teammate is the ability to corner and trap a spy together.  Your teammate could go in for the kill using MT/EMF/Flashlight/Laser while you stood still and told him if the spy was moving quickly or not based on how high or low the disturbance you were receiving.  

Good mercs, using the information provided with the high and low disturbance, would be able to think ahead and outsmart the spy just as they have shown to do with the mastering of EAX; I.E. based on the subtle sound, they can make a highly probably guess as to where the spy is going to go.  The one discrepancy involving this mastering of the CRD vision would require quick, almost constant communication to a fellow teammate -- something very hard to do.  With EAX, you can account for every change because your brain is capable of thinking and processing that rapidly.  But when a person is giving you information at a fast rate to insure accuracy, it will require you to process it that much faster.  I can imagine it now: "He's giving off high disturbance now, now low, now high!  Now low!  Now high!  Still high!  High again!"  It would confuse his teammate a lot.  I know that sounds a little goofy and possibly doubtful with a standard game, but it's an experimental scenario that I find needs to be considered when discussing such a controversial idea  :-*

[Westfall]

This vision seems like it would be something very overpowering....especially if there is also a sound reticule. While I don't deny the "coolness" of the gadget, it seems like too much.

Reviewing it again, the CRD is actually way overpowering. I think Motion Tracking and the SR do enough as is. We don't need something that practically incorporates them both WHILE having MT and SR.

[Vega]

Well, the fact that you can't move while using the vision, it triggers from your own teammate, and you can't use any other visions while this one is active is severely hindering -- almost too much.  But if you were to take out some of those factors could make it too powerful.  It seems small maps like Aqua would make CRD really effective, but big maps like Factory would cause it to lose much of its usefulness.

[Westfall]

Well, the fact that you can't move while using the vision, it triggers from your own teammate, and you can't use any other visions while this one is active is severely hindering -- almost too much.  But if you were to take out some of those factors could make it too powerful.  It seems small maps like Aqua would make CRD really effective, but big maps like Factory would cause it to lose much of its usefulness.

Mercs stand still when they are using camnet or are in snipe mode. Its not that hindering if you're paying attention, and if you don't....snap. Doors, nades, teammate, and spies trigger the vision...so why wouldn't you just stick with MT, which ALSO shows your teammate, nades, and spies. You can't use other visions while MT is on....same goes for if EMF is on....

Seems like this vision doesn't have any real "usefulness", or use, compared to other visions/gadgets which already seems to cover the ground of CRD.

[Vega]

Mercs stand still when they are using camnet or are in snipe mode. Its not that hindering if you're paying attention, and if you don't....snap. Doors, nades, teammate, and spies trigger the vision...so why wouldn't you just stick with MT, which ALSO shows your teammate, nades, and spies. You can't use other visions while MT is on....same goes for if EMF is on....

Seems like this vision doesn't have any real "usefulness", or use, compared to other visions/gadgets which already seems to cover the ground of CRD.

I'm in agreeance with you on most points, Westfall, but I do find MT a bit differant than CRD.  I'm not saying that we should add CRD, I was simply using example scenarios to figure out its potential. 

The usefulness of this vision is that it provides you with the ability of generally locating a spy who is moving about surreptitiously.  MT does this partially by providing the mercenary with a 360 degree view; which finds spies who crouch walk within plain, 360 degree sight but won't find spies who crouch walk behind a solid object such as a wall.  CRD would trigger in that situation and allow the merc to use the same principles of thinking that EAX gives any skilled player: the ability to quickly analyze where the best possible place a spy is hiding based on map knowledge and past experience.   

[frvge]

For clarity, the current MT is only a visible effect in the frustrum area of the Merc.

[Gawain]

just balance emf, mt, sr, sound behaviour/environment, camnet, spytraps, laser and flashlight and possibly add ph. nades. all those classics are totally sufficient to locate spies.
if you really want to implement some air disturbance vision elements, why not implement it into emf or mt? having some unprecise indicator that a spy moved through an area some seconds ago could be a nice and useful  gameplay element for instance, but it would reward patroulling more than your idea and wouldn't need a new vision/gadget.

[LennardF1989]

We could set a limit on visions, so you can have only 2 at once...

That way, you will have to choose which vision you want to use.