cool idea

[Vega]

Uhh a slight misunderstanding there.
What I meant is: instead of the mercs winning automatically just before the bomb blows up, the timer stops and they can try and take it off. If they do, they win.

So, now the timer stops and we have to wait for the mercenary to come and diffuse(shoot) the bomb?  Sounds entirely pointless.  These aren't 3 minute rounds, they're 10 minutes, if not more.

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

Damn you're stubborn.
IF the mercs manage to take the bomb off before it blows up (assuming it's the last objective), they win. Otherwise they lose.

[Roberto1223]

It's an okay idea, although I find it a bit limited since it's counterproductive in nature.  So you go to an objective, take some time to plant this thing, then run away to some hiding spot so you can hack secretly, and all the while you do this unnoticed?  Just seems too much work for granting so little -- many times a mercenary will shoot a grenade at the objective to kill the spy hacking it, which would in turn destroy your little device you planted (I'm assuming it would get destroyed, otherwise it'd be cheap as hell).  Instead of using those extra 5-10 seconds for hacking, you're using them for planting the device and finding a good place to hide.

As for the mercenary device, I oppose that as well for reasons Westfall mentioned.

i think you have a good point of view here if you are the kind of spy that likes to rush during ur spy turns in the match, but lets suppose that this device isnt really a gadget, its more like a software you install into the terminal by using some flash memory stick, so the merc cant really see it (like PC Anywhere), and as a consequence (if done stealthily) he dosent know its there, all he will know is that some laser grids were disabled to do this.

so after the spy does this to one terminal he can go and hack another terminal as he normaly does by standing in front of it, then when a merc goes to that one, spy goes near the first one and remotely hacks it.

so yes, it can be contraproductive if your in a rush, but if the round just started and you have all ur lives and good strategy it is a good gadget (or software or whatever)  in my opinion.

what i was thinking is that the only way a merc would be capable of disabling this is by walking up to the terminal and doing so (with action button), or killing the spy through snipe frag or anything, plus, dont forget that Mercs EMF can spot the spy easily if near by

you say that it would be "hella cheap" (if frags didnt have the ability to disable this new gadget), but i dont think it would be hella cheap since i know certain people who study the maps of scct like if they were studying for a final test at school, and they can easily predict were a spy is just by studiying the maps again..

[Roberto1223]

and about the bomb timer/game ending issue i had posted earlier in this same topic.

i think that bomb should keep ticking and mercs should be forced to disarm bomb.

like somebody else said "mercs objective is not to stay alive; their objective is to save their defending ground". (whoever said that)

and spies mission is to complete objectives dead or alive :P


cause its like when they say "if i lose, im taking you down with me", and when u die but u get your objective done and ur enemy killed too, i believe you won! lol

its confusing but yea.. i hope u understand what im trying to say.

[frvge]

Actually that's just an excuse for 'story'. The 2 win-conditions are: kill all the Spies OR defend the objective till time runs out. Whatever comes earlier wins.

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

The 2 win-conditions are: kill all the Spies OR defend the objective till time runs out.

That's taken straight out of CT.

[frvge]

Yes. Correct. I think changing the winning-mechanisms is not necessary. It'll change gameplay a bit much.

[LennardF1989]

I don't see anything being wrong with the rounder lasting as long as a bomb is still ticking.

If the bomb blows, but the not all objectives are hacked -> merc win
If the bomb is defused -> mercs win
If the bomb blows and completes the spies hacking objective -> spies win

Nothing wrong with it IMO.

[Gawain]

exactly.

[VaNilla]

I agree. Could always be a tie if the mercs don't manage to defuse and it's the last objective.

[Vega]

Damn you're stubborn.
IF the mercs manage to take the bomb off before it blows up (assuming it's the last objective), they win. Otherwise they lose.

You don't know how to word your thoughts correctly.  Perhaps English isn't your native language.  It'd be a lot easier for this stubborn guy to understand you if you could communicate your idea without contradicting yourself.  Using "timer" ambiguously, which applies to the "bomb timer" and the "round timer," is hurting your case a lot.

i think you have a good point of view here if you are the kind of spy that likes to rush during ur spy turns in the match, but lets suppose that this device isnt really a gadget, its more like a software you install into the terminal by using some flash memory stick, so the merc cant really see it (like PC Anywhere), and as a consequence (if done stealthily) he dosent know its there, all he will know is that some laser grids were disabled to do this.

so after the spy does this to one terminal he can go and hack another terminal as he normaly does by standing in front of it, then when a merc goes to that one, spy goes near the first one and remotely hacks it.

so yes, it can be contraproductive if your in a rush, but if the round just started and you have all ur lives and good strategy it is a good gadget (or software or whatever)  in my opinion.

what i was thinking is that the only way a merc would be capable of disabling this is by walking up to the terminal and doing so (with action button), or killing the spy through snipe frag or anything, plus, dont forget that Mercs EMF can spot the spy easily if near by

you say that it would be "hella cheap" (if frags didnt have the ability to disable this new gadget), but i dont think it would be hella cheap since i know certain people who study the maps of scct like if they were studying for a final test at school, and they can easily predict were a spy is just by studiying the maps again..

It has nothing to do with how people study maps, it's the fact that a merc has to physically run up and disable the "software" that eats up the precious time.  There are countless scenarios where this would prove detrimental. 

Aqua, Pirate Room, normally you can snipe from numerous points, such as the Tech Room catwalk, the hallway from Greek, and the hallway near Fish Tank Disk; now that the merc has to physically remove the device, he's going to lose precious time.  On the catwalk from Tech Room?  Too bad, you're definitely not going to cut the 10 second mark taking all those stairs.  What about the hallway near the Fish Tank objective?  A quick snipe used to be all that was needed -- you'd be lucky to make it to the terminal in 6-8 seconds from that area.  What about Factory Main Hall?  A grenade would save you those last few seconds that a spy needed to finish hacking the terminal.  Digger Room?  Now you have to walk all the way inside to get to the objective where previously, again, a grenade would have saved you a few seconds.  Should I list more?

With all said examples, there are many places to keep your location hidden.  Yes, EMF would greatly help reveal this but the trade-off is not balanced.  You get supreme hacking with little harm. 

I know multiple people are going to say "But Vega!  We aren't cloning CT!  The maps will be different!"  Here's the catch: our maps, as already previously seen with Lakehouse, are in the same light as CT.  What this device/software/whatever promotes, with the immunity to grenades, is a reconstruction of the maps.  This is another remote-hacking idea, which is of course why the maps in DA are so different compared to CT -- the principles involving hacking are much different.

The idea isn't horrible, although I find it either too good (when the device is immune to damage I.E. frags) or more counterproductive (when it is susceptible to frags).  The balancing factors would be the range on how far you can remotely hack.  But then you're stepping into DA territory because sooner or later you're going to consider the speed of hacking based on the distance to the terminal. 

[frvge]

Here's the catch: our maps, as already previously seen with Lakehouse, are in the same light as CT

Actually, only Lakehouse is planned to look a bit CT-ish. The other maps aren't in a phase that it's clear for us what they will be like, but the plan is to make them feel different.

[Vega]

Actually, only Lakehouse is planned to look a bit CT-ish. The other maps aren't in a phase that it's clear for us what they will be like, but the plan is to make them feel different.

That's cool but that's not exactly what I meant.  Based on the Lakehouse preview, it is already apparent on what kind of design you guys are using for the maps; in other words, the general layout that all maps are to follow.  To put it in an analogy, look at how differently CT and DA maps are designed; CT maps are smaller and their objectives usually stay hidden away, while DA maps are much larger and their objectives are out in the open.  Reason being for this is simple: each map type compliments the particular style of hacking and characteristics of the spy/mercenary that the game employs.  You must stand directly next to the terminal in CT, which is why the maps are smaller, less open-ended, and have many barriers to give the spy cover.  In DA, the spy has the advantage of remote hacking, which is why the objectives are out in the open. 

To get to the point: it would be downright silly to have a CT map in DA, or vice versa.  It doesn't mix well, it would be unbalanced.  I bring this up because it is the crux of my argument in the above post; that if this idea of remote hacking software/device would be implemented, I theorize in order to balance it, the maps would have to adjust accordingly.  I make this statement because I have now seen Lakehouse and know it is reminiscent of CT rather than DA based on it's design.

[Gawain]

amen to vega's wise words.

[frvge]

Nope, most other maps are planned to not have the CT-feel. The problem is, they dont even have layouts yet, so it's also for us still uncertain how they might differ. Basically, Lakehouse is supposed to be one-of-a-kind, as a guide for old-skool players.