Question/idea

[Gawain]

-poison mines shouldn't be in ps in the first place

huh

This, why shouldn't they be? It can also be used to get a spy to go somewhere very easily.

like mentioned several times before:
-gadget overlapping with spytraps
-mines don't need 3 different options (no other gadget offers that)
-the poison mine look and way of working differs to much from the other mine types which basically look the same and do the same eg explode, only with different ways of triggering
-pt worked fine without them
-we have no idea how they really work out as in ct they totally sucked apart from some really lame spots

well rambo, now is your chance to speak up.
what would you rather get rid of for example?
or were u only being a smart ass and doing what u always do, which is contradict everything everybody says... lol.

you prick, stop spamming bullshit.
i wanna get rid of:
-poison mines (look above)
-uzi and shotgun (one weapon worked out fine in pt and is way better for balance purposes)
-hidden, non-obvious mechanics (gj with the vision modes mic; tutorial must mention every single mechanic unusual in typical fps games; visual/audio feedback for as much mechanics as possible)
-too many/long delays slowing down the game flow (mainly regarding animation stuff, probably done)

[Spark Mandriller]

Your reasons for excluding poisons all suck.


You suck too.

[Gawain]

<3
i forgot the most important one: the easier the rules and the harder a game to master, the better and more beautiful it is. just compare chess with go: simplicity (in rules eg gameplay mechanics) wins.
besides, ps probably wants to be more newb-friendly than ct. and not everything they changed from pt to ct is made of gold...

[Roberto1223]

@ Rambo "the poison mine look and way of working differs to much from the other mine types which basically look the same and do the same eg explode, only with different ways of triggering"



THEY COME IN THE SAME 'PACK' CAUSE THEY HAVE A ONE THING IN COMMON.


THEY ARE ALL MINES!!!


in my opinion there is no good reason to eliminate poison mines...


BTW, how do they work? do they shoot a dart? wtf?

[Gawain]

i provided tons of good reasoning, while you provided non for keeping them. grow up kiddie

[I <3 U]

i provided tons of good reasoning, while you provided non for keeping them. grow up kiddie

All of those reason's sucked. lol ur being a tard  ;D.

[frvge]

What about keeping the negativity towards other people to the OT forum?

[Gawain]

if my reasoning sucks that bad, why don't you go ahead and proove every single point wrong AND give some good points for keeping poison mines?

[VaNilla]

I don't think your points are valid, so as you wish lets analyse them. I don't see how they overlap with spy traps, spy traps are used to track a spy, and the spy is unaware of being tagged by a spy trap unless it's on purpose, or if a team mate can see that he's been trapped and remove it. Poision mines inform the player of their effect as soon as they take place, and they cause a response; to get health, or to do something useful as quickly as possible.

Mines don't need 3 different options, why not? It's good to have choice and this game is all about tactics. You say mines don't need three different types, yet you then say that the poision mine is dissimilar to a laser and a proxy, doesn't that make you see your hypocrisy? Just because PT worked well without posion mines doesn't mean that they don't improve the experience. Also, we do know how well they worked in CT, most of us used to play the game on a regular basis ;).

You asked for good points for keeping them, I've partially explained it just now, but I've also already provided a point for you, they can be used to bring a spy to a specific place. Whenever I place a poison mine in a spot that gets people all the time, I always idle around a health pack - it's a free kill really, and that's not all that poison mines can be used for, you can use them for more than what they are worth, yet they are already effective in their own right. If you plan on comparing laser mines to poision mines, it's a good point but one effect of laser mines that a poison mine does not have is an explosion, a visual cue to the team mate and the sound can alert team mates from a distance. A poison mine is more discreet.

[Gawain]

basically, a poison mine is a less obvious laser mine with longer range and a slower killing with a slim escape chance. the problem with it is that if it really kills players regularily, it's overpowered with its spy trap range. afterall, a spy trap shows you on radar for a minute, and a poison mine kills you in 10-15s. and yet both have the same triggering method and placement options!
and if you make poison mines really deadly unlike ct, what's the point of laser mines?
poison mines also often come in place as a spytrap replacement. they don't track, but you can easily block certain pathways and come see if someone went through.
if poison mines stay in the game, it's easy to see that they can't get more deadly than in ct and that there have to be differences in placement options and laser visibility between laser mines, poison mines and spytraps (which are way too easy to see in tv).

[VaNilla]

To be honest all that I can do now I've argued with the facts is agree to disagree :P.

[Roberto1223]

from my point of view, poison mines are important because laser mines have a long range laser, but the explosion radius only reaches about 1/8 of the laser's range


in contrast, a poison mine can harm a spy in all of the laser's range.


so this main difference is important depending on what the merc wants to defend or achieve.




so lets suppose that rambo gets his way, and poison mines are removed from PS.


what would have to be done to balance this?
*each laser mine placement would have to set up 2 mines that oppose eachother. this way, spies can no longer do what they did in SCCT, which was to run through the laser while being out of the explosion's range.

*many SCCT fans would whine against this and others would like it.
The end result would be coming up with a poison mine as a solution.


that is why poison mines exist.



i hope you understand what im trying to illustrate. let me know what your opinion is on this.
*do you like this new laser mine type at the expense of poison mines?
*would you rather have a single-sided laser mine (like in SCCT), and have poison mines too?
*would u rather have both poisons and dual laser mines?

*would this mean that the merc would lose 2 mines for every laser mine system he sets up? how would the mine count work?


**Maybe add a "dual laser mine system" to the mine deploying menu. and lose 2 mines for every dual laser mine system? idk let me know what you think.

[Gawain]

what about simply not being able to do anything in the game? it's limitations that make a game interesting, otherwise you could simply give the mercs rocket launchers and the spies jetpacks...
who the fuck cares about some whiny kids?
mines should work up close, spytraps long range. closing the gap with something that has all the benefits of spy traps and KILLS slowly is simply poor game design.

[I <3 U]

what about simply not being able to do anything in the game? it's limitations that make a game interesting, otherwise you could simply give the mercs rocket launchers and the spies jetpacks...
who the fuck cares about some whiny kids?
mines should work up close, spytraps long range. closing the gap with something that has all the benefits of spy traps and KILLS slowly is simply poor game design.

poisen dart hits you as soon as the laser is triggered. why not make a small (as in VERY small) delay to stop poisens blocking off huge pathways like they currently do? That might fix what rambo's talking about.

[Roberto1223]

well i wouldnt say that poison mines have the benifits of spy traps.. ZOoMG WTF.

in that case anything with lasers would have the same benifit. rofl.


anyway, i think that adding a delay is not ok cause then everybody would be like "WTF i poison mined ur ass!", and spies'd be like "leet skills nyguh!", and merc'd be like "Fuck cho lag u black!"
and it would result in total chaos and hate towards a game that devs are attempting to make lagless and BS-less.

otherwise i wouldnt mind a delay, but being realistic, its not like humans can dodge bullets (or fired darts) anyway, and even less when they dont see them coming.

so yeah i dont think a spy should be able to get away with walking through a laser mine and not getting poisoned, itd be fucking cheap.


maybe the laser mine system can be changed, maybe the laser mine can be designed with 2 lasers to the sides of the dart barrel, and that would compensate for the delay?

meh, this is bullshit. just stfu and call it a day. xD