Question/idea

[Roberto1223]

Its nice to know that agent agrees with me for the first time in life.
lol.

[Spekkio]

Just to play Devil's Advocate:

When PT had two different types of grenades, they were separate gadgets. Additionally, phosphorous grenades were a lot weaker than poison mines or laser mines. So why keep multiple types of mines as the same gadget?

[frvge]

You mean phosphorous grenades? And AFAIK, the laser and normal mine were in 1-gadget slot as 'Mines'.

[AgentX_003]

You mean phosphorous grenades? And AFAIK, the laser and normal mine were in 1-gadget slot as 'Mines'.

that is correct , I revisited Pandora tomorrow online not to long ago thanks to the brilliant technology we call :
hamachi :D !

[Farley4Fan]

I think that if you use a cam you should be sure you are safe before you fire it (as long as it's not a quick cam attempt ofc)

[Gawain]

i guess what spekkio is saying is that mines are way too flexible compared to other gadgets: you get 3 gadgets in one. the best thing to do both for balance and for coherency would be:
-remove poison mines
-make presence detectors look more like spytraps (eg spytraps with laser turned off and beeping)
-reintroduce phosphorous nades as a seperate gadget
-boost flares or get rid of them

[Spekkio]

I wasn't saying anything, I was just posing a question about an inconsistency regarding multiple functions vs. separate gadgets.

[Farley4Fan]

I still like combining flares with phosphorous grenades.  Instead of the bright white light it would be a neon(ish) green glow - and it would burn spies like phosphorous + make them leave footsteps.

[AgentX_003]

I still like combining flares with phosphorous grenades.  Instead of the bright white light it would be a neon(ish) green glow - and it would burn spies like phosphorous + make them leave footsteps.

on the contrary it didn't , it just left them highlighted in green and trackable in motion.

[Farley4Fan]

I worded that badly.  I mean burn spies like the new flare thing we had in mind.  That + Phosphourous effects, yeah.  I would like that but that's just me.

[Gawain]

I wasn't saying anything, I was just posing a question about an inconsistency regarding multiple functions vs. separate gadgets.

well, you're stating that there's an inconsistency. but sorry for misinterpreting the whole question as rhetorical.

[Farley4Fan]

The animosity on this forum has decreased a lot, myself included.  haha

[Westfall]

stfu westfall. i don't wanna get rid of them because i sucked with or against them, my reasons are well-rounded and beyond that.

Let's hope so....let's take a look, shall we.

-poison mines gadget overlap with laser mines and spytraps (especially when used to see if a path they block has been taken; if you don't chase a good player into them he will rarely trigger it anyways so there's not much difference what kind it is)

I don't understand why you think they overlap. Is this because they are "beamed" objects? If so, I don't see how that warrants much of change. If you're going to get that technical, all beam overlapping has to be abolished...not just because poison mines do it...I could say to get rid of spy traps because they overlap beams too. Just for the record: using poison mines takes away from the TOTAL mine count placement. Remember...3 mines....3 traps. Your choice of trap (detector) and your choice of mines, 2 of which have beams. Are these beams pissing you off? I don't get what you're angry about here.

-have a general balance problem because of it, a) with them being deadly in most cases, they are far better than spytraps which don't kill and laser mines which have less range; b) with them being not really deadly you better use your mine number for deadly ones eg laser and proxy

Okay...solutiuon to A and B is making laser mine timer quicker, which was going to happen anyways. I find it interesting that both beamed mines give you the chance of surviving: one with not getting hurt enough by the explosion and the other by getting healed by your partner or first aid. They are supposed to be more deadly than spy traps because they are poison...and a mine, not a good combination for living. They were meant to be stronger than spy traps. Spy traps can get you killed in a number of different ways too. Your argument here, well there isn't one. Poison mines are plenty deadly (touching on option B here). If you're planning right you can use a poison and a proxy to take a notch off of the spy's life-span...then use your backpack to refill, so amount of mines never really becomes that much of an issues. So...k.

-pt worked just fine without them

I don't doubt that, but CT worked better with them AND added a little variety.

-spytraps need a boost anyways, so how about not just increasing their number but also removing the competition?

This isn't justification for getting rid of poison mines. If another gadget needs a boost, and you are taking away from another gadget, then it seems like there was already a balance there. You just want something to be stronger. I will agree that spy traps need either a longer timer, or an increased number ( i agree with increased number), but if poison mines were so "not deadly" in your other argument, why would you eliminate them? IF ANYTHING, you've made an argument as to why spy traps shouldn't have an increase in number...they will be more deadly than laser, proxy, AND poison mines. Thats more of making mines obsolete isn't it? It would be nice to still have a few laser beams in a hallway to throw a spy off.

-having 2 mines that look similar and explode that magically turn into a totally different looking mine that shoots a dart is incoherent

So is having 4 lives....So is magically getting healed by your teammate and being fine. The realism argument is understandable, but redundant now. Some things fit, others don't. To me, a trigger that shoots a poison dart into a moving figure giving it a certain amount of time to live doesn't seem as far fetched as healing a teammate. Don't drop the "realism" bomb if you aren't going to nerf everything else about this oh so realistic game.

-...(see other posts)

No...you're repetitive and boring now.

all points against it so far were
-they fill the gap between mines and spytraps (=bad!) and
-have a use which most players like (use doesn't justify anything)
-they are in ct (right next to tons of other bullshit, don't make me do a list; not everything in ct is golden)

I don't think they fill a void b/w mines and spy traps, since both have a limited number anyways. Again, the variety of having more than one option for a mine is in many games with different weapons. This is limited to very few gadgets that can actually exist in this type of game. I agree, not everything in CT is golden...neither are the ideas to cut certain things that aren't broken.Poison mines have proved very useful and work with the current system. This is rare since most things need to balanced hardcore.

but hey, i'm willing to compromise: if they stay in the game the killing timer may not get decreased and the spytrap amount needs to get higher just as the spytrap laser needs to get more invisible so that actually someone runs into it. ranges of both gadgets need to get a little bit shorter.

I thought ranges were just fine. I also thought timers were just fine. The poison mine timer wasn't meant to kill you instantly. It was meant to get the adrenaline going and make the player panic, which results in clutch performance or death. Hence why you think it is weak, when it really isn't...at all.

westfall, if you really read and understood those points you wouldn't call me a whiny idiot. but tbh, i don't care what you think about me, just what productive input i can give the ps team.

I understand what you're trying to do and I also understand why your points don't make sense. What I don't understand is why you try to justify getting rid of poison mines without a good point. I don't care what I think about you either, b/c it would waste brain space. Your aren't producing productive input. You're posting personal preference, which the devs aren't looking for.

Just to play Devil's Advocate:

When PT had two different types of grenades, they were separate gadgets. Additionally, phosphorous grenades were a lot weaker than poison mines or laser mines. So why keep multiple types of mines as the same gadget?

This is why it doesn't matter and adds variety. You're going to bring back the weak phosphorus grenade and eliminate the supposed weak poison mine? Done here.

[Gawain]

I don't understand why you think they overlap. Is this because they are "beamed" objects?

if you avoid running into any beams (which is what good players do unless there's really no other option), there is no difference.

Okay...solutiuon to A and B is making laser mine timer quicker, which was going to happen anyways.

which kinda proves my point that laser mines are weaker than poison mines in ct.

This isn't justification for getting rid of poison mines. If another gadget needs a boost, and you are taking away from another gadget, then it seems like there was already a balance there.

what you call "balance" is exactly the gadget overlapping you deny: because they do similar jobs, you can't boost both.

IF ANYTHING, you've made an argument as to why spy traps shouldn't have an increase in number...they will be more deadly than laser, proxy, AND poison mines. Thats more of making mines obsolete isn't it?

i think we both agree that one mine is stronger than one spytrap for obvious reasons. so if you want to make equipment choice a real choice, all gadgets need to be about the same strenght which clearly isn't the case now. the easiest way to accomplish that i by changing the number of deployable gadgets.

The realism argument is understandable, but redundant now.

there's a difference between coherency and realism. we both are used to the non-obvious mechanics in svm after playing houndreds of hours, but new players aren't. i thought ps wanted to be more newcomer-friendly?

I don't doubt that, but CT worked better with them AND added a little variety.

it's better to let variety arise out of different play styles, not complex basic rules.

I thought ranges were just fine. I also thought timers were just fine. The poison mine timer wasn't meant to kill you instantly. It was meant to get the adrenaline going and make the player panic, which results in clutch performance or death. Hence why you think it is weak, when it really isn't...at all.

i never said they are weak or have no use. the other changes like shortening the maximum range to stop total blocking and increasing the spytrap count to make them a real alternative to camnet/backpack have also been suggested by other folks like spekkio.

This is why it doesn't matter and adds variety. You're going to bring back the weak phosphorus grenade and eliminate the supposed weak poison mine? Done here.

we all agree that flares are useless and that ph. nades were fun in pt. now combine ph. nades with flares, increase the green stuff timer on the ground to infinity or make it inflammable and you got yourself one hell of a useful gadget.
besides, what's your point? i don't care if i remove a strong rocket launcher or a weak graffiti can from the game as long as it makes the game better.

[Spekkio]

Poison mines should be more deadly (kill in 10 sec vs. 15) and have a much shorter range than spy traps...figure slightly longer than laser mines. If the laser will extend further than its effective range, you shouldn't be able to place it.

Would solve the problem of certain areas being "locked off" by poison mines (Deftech building C, Orphanage storage, etc).