Gadget ideas

[Kubanator]

Merc:

The EMP mine disables the spy's visions for x seconds, disables the spy's gadgets for y seconds, and depletes his energy bar. It has a larger radius than proximity mines, and is triggered by laser or proximity, depending on what the devs choose. This does not affect passive security, but does affect Mercs.

The C4 mine can be thrown a short distance and sticks to any wall. It is manually detonated by Mercs, and has a delay of x seconds. It's blast radius is larger than a proximity mine's. It emits a red light, and is visible under thermal.

With the addition of these two mines, I recommend that Mercs be limited to using 3/5 mines.

Spy:

The EMI suit disables all nearby equipment including mines, and tracking devices (even attached ones), for as long as they are within the radius of the suit. The suit constantly drains energy while active, able to remain active for x seconds. As soon as objects leave the radius of the suit, they reactivate instantly. This also has the side effect of making a massive EMF field.

Active Countermeasure is a device that negates the detection abilities of the Merc. When equipped and selected it increases it's effectiveness when there is more lighting, forcing the Merc to use his regular vision. Under near total darkness, this device blocks detection from x meters away. In the light, it stops detection from y meters away. When activated it constantly drains energy, lasting the spy z seconds and renders the spy completely invisible to motion tracking, EMF vision, laser, and spy tracker. However, the spy cannot pull out his sticky shocker.

If you intend to post, post intelligently. If you disagree, disagree with reason, and try to fix the problem.

This is bad. (Wrong)

This is bad because of x reason. (Good)

[Gawain]

even if you ideas were good, more than 8 gadgets is just too much. so you should mention which ones they could replace and why they fit better into gameplay than those.

[Kubanator]

I accept your logic, but reject your premise. In a strategy based game, opening up more tools for strategy is good. This isn't rock-paper-scissors, where 8 way would lead to an obvious advantage based off of luck.
A base of standardized weaponry and equipment ensures that the minor advantage created by a gadget can be overwhelmed by skill and strategy. Also, you've failed to comment on the gadgets at all, and explain why there can only be a certain amount of gadgets.

[Spark Mandriller]

Active Countermeasure is a device that negates the detection abilities of the Merc. When equipped and selected it increases it's effectiveness when there is more lighting, forcing the Merc to use his regular vision. Under near total darkness, this device blocks detection from x meters away. In the light, it stops detection from y meters away. When activated it constantly drains energy, lasting the spy z seconds and renders the spy completely invisible to motion tracking, EMF vision, laser, and spy tracker.

Holy shit aggro spy paradise.

[Kubanator]

Active Countermeasure is a device that negates the detection abilities of the Merc. When equipped and selected it increases it's effectiveness when there is more lighting, forcing the Merc to use his regular vision. Under near total darkness, this device blocks detection from x meters away. In the light, it stops detection from y meters away. When activated it constantly drains energy, lasting the spy z seconds and renders the spy completely invisible to motion tracking, EMF vision, laser, and spy tracker.

Holy shit aggro spy paradise.

Ok, how about now?

[Spark Mandriller]

Now it's just not very useful. Nobody's gonna waste an gadget slot on the ability to crouch walk and not get picked up by MT. The beating EMF is pretty useless, and the laser's never going to come up. Not sure what you mean by spy tracker though.

[Kubanator]

Now it's just not very useful. Nobody's gonna waste an gadget slot on the ability to crouch walk and not get picked up by MT. The beating EMF is pretty useless, and the laser's never going to come up. Not sure what you mean by spy tracker though.

Spy tracker is the spy trap tracking thing. Also, changed again.

And what do you think of the other gadgets?

[Gawain]

I accept your logic, but reject your premise. In a strategy based game, opening up more tools for strategy is good. This isn't rock-paper-scissors, where 8 way would lead to an obvious advantage based off of luck.
A base of standardized weaponry and equipment ensures that the minor advantage created by a gadget can be overwhelmed by skill and strategy. Also, you've failed to comment on the gadgets at all, and explain why there can only be a certain amount of gadgets.

the more gadgets you have in a game, the more facts a new player has to learn, the harder it is to balance it all out and the more guessing games (which replaces reasoning in same part as you don't have a stable starting ground for your assumptions) you get. at least to me, a game like Go with incredibly easy rules (but still incredible depth and more strategic possibilities than atoms in our galaxy!) is the ideal for a beautiful game: easy to get into, hard to master. besides, too many gadget choices distract from the core gameplay, just like minigames for hacking door panels and other crap ideas would do.
don't get me wrong, i like lot's of your ideas a lot. but it's really time to start thinking about a second game mode, maybe even more like scda. you just can't pack every single idea into one game mode and expect it to work.

[Wh1tE_Dw4rF]

It doesn't matter how many gadgets are available in-game. Because in the end people will outweight gadgets over another and end up with 4 required ones. If you don't have those 4 you'll be called a "noob" and needs to "L2P", also, switching one of the 4 gadgets for a random one to try to be unique will end up gimping yourself in every possible way you can think of.

My vote would be to just make 4 gadgets for each side, to avoid unneccesary time waste of outweighting gadgets and also to make it easier for new people to get into the game while avoiding them being called "noob" for picking the wrong gadgets.

[Kubanator]

the more gadgets you have in a game, the more facts a new player has to learn, the harder it is to balance it all out and the more guessing games (which replaces reasoning in same part as you don't have a stable starting ground for your assumptions) you get. at least to me, a game like Go with incredibly easy rules (but still incredible depth and more strategic possibilities than atoms in our galaxy!) is the ideal for a beautiful game: easy to get into, hard to master. besides, too many gadget choices distract from the core gameplay, just like minigames for hacking door panels and other crap ideas would do.
don't get me wrong, i like lot's of your ideas a lot. but it's really time to start thinking about a second game mode, maybe even more like scda. you just can't pack every single idea into one game mode and expect it to work.

Looking at any FPS, the most basic of games, you'll see way more weapons then you will gadgets. And really, look at Team Fortress 2. The game has 9 completely different classes, but you can play every single one decently within the first hour. Gadgets are a method of making the core gameplay more involving. For example, Merc is tired of spies running in, hacking and escaping when he leaves. So he puts down a mine. Spy uses his chaff grenade to disable it allowing him to pass. Then you can get into combinations of gadgets, like smoke and chaff to blind a merc and trap him, or using alarm snare and sticky cam to gas him. More gadgets creates more combinations, which creates more strategy, making more gameplay.

EMI suit is similar to a chaff grenade, and Active countermeasures is the opposite of camouflage, it allows you to be seen with normal vision, but prevents special visions from seeing you.

Pulse mines create a more accurate, less effective alternative to proximity mines, and C4s allow an alternative to frag grenades, difficult to predict and dodge, but must be pre-placed.

Really, there's no point to removing gadgets, as if these act as replacements, I've made no changes to the game.

It doesn't matter how many gadgets are available in-game. Because in the end people will outweight gadgets over another and end up with 4 required ones. If you don't have those 4 you'll be called a "noob" and needs to "L2P", also, switching one of the 4 gadgets for a random one to try to be unique will end up gimping yourself in every possible way you can think of.

Chaos Theory, Merc: Frag, Mine, Mask, Backpack, Camnet.
All used gadgets.
Spy: Smoke, Flash, Chaff, Cam, Heartbeat, Spy bullet
All used gadgets.

You can have more than 4 gadgets if they promote different strategies.

My vote would be to just make 4 gadgets for each side, to avoid unneccesary time waste of outweighting gadgets and also to make it easier for new people to get into the game while avoiding them being called "noob" for picking the wrong gadgets.

That means that each side is limited to the few strategies that that set of gadgets allows. Trying to simplify the game so noobs can play is good, making the game easier to play without removing strategies is better.

[Wh1tE_Dw4rF]

I understand where you are coming from but strategies become obsolete as people get to know the maps. If the developers attempt to create too much room for strategies it will be very hard to counter. If the dev's make too few, the game will be very straight forward.

I'm not saying your ideas for gadgets are wrong but they are not needed as it makes things too complicated and most of the gadgets won't be used after a while as X gadget and Y gadget are required etc..

[Kubanator]

I understand where you are coming from but strategies become obsolete as people get to know the maps. If the developers attempt to create too much room for strategies it will be very hard to counter. If the dev's make too few, the game will be very straight forward.

Just like Rambo said, Go is easy to learn, hard to master. It's hard to master because of all of the strategies. When you allow more strategies, you allow the game to live longer, because there's more things to master. A game ceases to be fun when your options become limiting.

I'm not saying your ideas for gadgets are wrong but they are not needed as it makes things too complicated and most of the gadgets won't be used after a while as X gadget and Y gadget are required etc..

If there are 4 specific gadgets that every spy will use, the devs failed. It means that the devs were unsuccessful in balancing all of the gadgets. I have faith that they will be capable of balancing the gadgets they make. Again, looking at Team Fortress 2, they have 9 balanced classes, each with balanced alternate weapons, and even noobs aren't confused, even with the lack of tutorials.

Devs, I summon you from the depths of your basement! Read this thread!

[LennardF1989]

"You do not have enough Magic Power to summon the developers." - Announcer

[Kubanator]

"You do not have enough Magic Power to summon the developers." - Announcer

Damn it, I should have wandered around outside and leveled up. Oh well, at least the announcer got here.

[frvge]

Announcer broke the rules. Penalty was DEATH.