Poll results: Do you want a pre-alpha version for UT3?

[Roberto1223]

I feel like ive been waiting like 5 years? is this true? have i been waitng 5 years for this mod?

[frvge]

Nope. About 3 years since pre-production, but only in the second year we had the release of UT3, so then the actual development started.

[Cronky]

I agree with Speks on this one. It'll be human nature for people to complain and then the devs either won't feel the need to continue or they will hide information like Ubisoft.

Human Nature indeed is to complain. Yet no matter what people will complain when it comes to a Beta.

Since waiting till everything is "Fixed" for a completely stable version of it... is less of a beta, more of a  final release.. with balance issues.

BUT then again, maybe I'm looking at it differently then others. I less care about actually PLAYING the game for what it's meant for, more into actually finding things that are wrong. Graphical glitches, Bugs, etc.

Instead of Balance issues like, "I was on the other side of the map of a mine and it killed me... I think the radius is a little wide".

Because there are things that nobody working on the project could fathom doing. Such as how the Midget Glitch, and Teleporting in PT (or was it CT? Pretty sure it was PT... Both?) ended up in existence.

...And hell, I just want to run around the levels... See all the work that's been done in this long wait that some people have been here since the start for (Not me personally, but I'm one who loves instant gratification. Some would say I'm impatient). Actually see the improvements that get made. That blows any "Milestone" forum post out of the water. (Don't get me wrong, I very much appreciate the milestones forum post :P)

Don't get me wrong though, I did state I did not completely disagree with Spekkio. Just that I think that my alternative is just as sound.

I got a metaphor for it. It's like if a friend, that you let borrow 100 dollars, said, "I could give you 100 dollars right now, OR... I could give you 200 dollars later (No time frame given just later)". Some would go for the 100 now, others would opt for the 200 later.

[Savior20061]

You're too damn reasonable for an internet forum. ;)

[Bubbaganoosh]

I guess I'm in the vast minority of people who don't care to waste time playing a buggy ass pre-release of a game where each side only has one usable gadget and only half their moves programmed.

To devs: I strongly suggest you ignore popular opinion on this one. Whatever playable version of PS you release is going to be the first impression people have of your game. They won't care how many times you stamp "PRE-ALPHA!!!1" all over it; they are going to whine on these forums and judge you negatively for making a shitty product. It's good that you have generated a lot of interest, but you have the potential to squander it by revealing your product too soon.

Be smart and wait for a stable beta.

Agreed. Not only the complaints but the "suggestions" will come fast and furious. "You should have done....." type of bullshit could distract your dev team into making changes that aren't necessary or usefull. Besides like was said already, people will complain no matter what and there is already enough of that here without adding to it.

$0.02 (CDN)

[Cronky]

Agreed. Not only the complaints but the "suggestions" will come fast and furious. "You should have done....." type of bullshit could distract your dev team into making changes that aren't necessary or usefull. Besides like was said already, people will complain no matter what and there is already enough of that here without adding to it.

$0.02 (CDN)

Much like Spekkio's response that you quoted and I responded to I agree and disagree with what you have to say.

Comments, Suggestions, and blatant pummeling of the game are going to be there no matter what. Alpha, Beta, or finished product doesn't matter. People don't change just because you slap a different word in front of it. The Dev's have to sort out the blind suggestions of the community already here. Whereas with actual playtesting we could give real constructive criticism.

Again I must say that I'm not looking for an actual online component for a alpha build (This is my want alone, and the basis behind my thinking against the suggestions response). Though the general consensus behind any kind of pre-build of the is game so you can actually play the way it's meant compared to the finished product; that's not what I'm getting at.

The chance to see the work done in a format that you can actually play around with. Testing out their Clubhouse map to see what exactly is working and what's not. There are hundreds of things you could do without actually setting foot online. Without hacking an objective or killing a spy.

What it all boils down to is that I want to play the improvements. The advancement on what they are doing. Get a feeling that they are one step closer to the finished product with each new annoucement, rather than reading every so often that they got an Animation/Effect down. The announcements are great... they just leave a lot to the imagination, a lot to be questioned just by looks alone. A little playable demo that get's updated in the Milestones Thread would be enough to satisfy what I would want to see.

This is probably why game companies have a small group of Quality Assurance Testers. Not every game gets a beta that everyone can play. If only a small group can play, with reasoning that they are trying to find things that the dev team would otherwise not find. Then the mindless babble gets cut out. The suggestions that you say would be so Dev distracting would be cut down to a minimum.

[frvge]

I think our community, of which most are PT/CT-friends, will do fine with constructive criticism.
The point is IMO to minimize potential losses to our already relatively low number of fans.

The GamesCom build was nothing more than running around, doing dives and wallflips (I did about 800 per day in slomo to show it off :P), flipping through visions at specific places (some lightbeams werent set to 'invisible' when in MT or EMF vision yet) and hacking of an objective and a door-panel (which didn't reset, so had to reload :P It had a 60 sec timer for that purpose :)). Sometimes there was some climbing to show off the freeroaming stuff. That's basically it.

We will release a version when we have a bit more done. As always, I'm not saying any dates, but we are very anxious to your combined reactions already :D.

[Cronky]

See it's things like that!

You say things like, "Oh it was just a bunch of rolling around, etc", but that is exactly what would be fun to just go and play around with.

That it'd be kinda "New" if instead of people just talking about what they have already, rather the general public could just play around with it.

Lots more work? Probably. Don't know how much time it takes to compile a version of it where you basically just do... Nothing but roll around.

But it'd be fun to play that rather than just seeing the little videos about the new stuff.

OR if you wanted a billion more times work. Make a Work in Progress version of Club House and do what they do with games like TF2 and make Developer Commentary in certain areas you can free cam to (Instead of the straight video that you already have). The difference is yours could be updated. Maybe you add a new set piece, then you add a new Audio Commentary to explain why that's there (Kinda crappy example, but the point is out there) I'm a sucker for listening to that kind of stuff, but even more fun when I can look around the level all I want.

[CurdyMilk]

Agreed. Not only the complaints but the "suggestions" will come fast and furious. "You should have done....." type of bullshit could distract your dev team into making changes that aren't necessary or usefull. Besides like was said already, people will complain no matter what and there is already enough of that here without adding to it.

$0.02 (CDN)

Much like Spekkio's response that you quoted and I responded to I agree and disagree with what you have to say.

Comments, Suggestions, and blatant pummeling of the game are going to be there no matter what. Alpha, Beta, or finished product doesn't matter. People don't change just because you slap a different word in front of it. The Dev's have to sort out the blind suggestions of the community already here. Whereas with actual playtesting we could give real constructive criticism.

Again I must say that I'm not looking for an actual online component for a alpha build (This is my want alone, and the basis behind my thinking against the suggestions response). Though the general consensus behind any kind of pre-build of the is game so you can actually play the way it's meant compared to the finished product; that's not what I'm getting at.

The chance to see the work done in a format that you can actually play around with. Testing out their Clubhouse map to see what exactly is working and what's not. There are hundreds of things you could do without actually setting foot online. Without hacking an objective or killing a spy.

What it all boils down to is that I want to play the improvements. The advancement on what they are doing. Get a feeling that they are one step closer to the finished product with each new annoucement, rather than reading every so often that they got an Animation/Effect down. The announcements are great... they just leave a lot to the imagination, a lot to be questioned just by looks alone. A little playable demo that get's updated in the Milestones Thread would be enough to satisfy what I would want to see.

This is probably why game companies have a small group of Quality Assurance Testers. Not every game gets a beta that everyone can play. If only a small group can play, with reasoning that they are trying to find things that the dev team would otherwise not find. Then the mindless babble gets cut out. The suggestions that you say would be so Dev distracting would be cut down to a minimum.

I agree.  Playing an offline alpha would be all I want.  It would be fun to test out the basics for bugs and give constructive criticism.  Plus it would be a good way to get more ideas such as maps, display, etc. when you actually get a feel for how it works.  And you donââ,¬â,,¢t want to spend too much time making the alpha and get distracted from the game itself.  There will always be the people who just bash it no matter what, but they must not be true fans, and you probably wouldnââ,¬â,,¢t want those people playing the game anywayââ,¬Â¦the community is small, yet it will grow with advertising and more playable modes to spread the word.

[frvge]

The thing with the version I mentioned is that it gets boring after 60 minutes, even when you really really like moving around like I do.

Don't fear though, we will release some semi-stable versions later that can be seen as alpha or beta. A few more things need to be put together first.

[Westfall]

I agree with Spekkio on this one. While I understand the notion of a pre-alpha, I would be concerned about judgement too early. Get a working beta and show it off. The process is interesting to follow and should be left to the team making videos of progress (tick tock threads). Only release playable stuff when it's beta, because not everyone is in the same realm as "I want to do a wall flip this many times." People will critique right away. Get your working version, then listen to what people have to say. We talk plenty on the video threads. Don't spoil a well kept mystery.

[Cronky]

I agree with Spekkio on this one. While I understand the notion of a pre-alpha, I would be concerned about judgement too early. Get a working beta and show it off. The process is interesting to follow and should be left to the team making videos of progress (tick tock threads). Only release playable stuff when it's beta, because not everyone is in the same realm as "I want to do a wall flip this many times." People will critique right away. Get your working version, then listen to what people have to say. We talk plenty on the video threads. Don't spoil a well kept mystery.

I understand, and as stated before don't completely disagree with what you or Spekkio said.

Let me revise my earlier statements with my current thought processes.

Pre-Alpha, Beta, I've come to the conclusion that I don't actually care for those anymore. What I was going for was actually just a demo. The tick tock threads show so much and so little at the same time that I feel as if making a suggestion in those is worse than if there was an alpha or beta out. As is what the people against this are getting at.

People react more when what they are looking at is interactive (From my completely pulled out of my ass fact). When they themselves can move and see what it is that they are able to do.

Example, I put my suggestion/opinion to the Neckbreak Tick Tock thread. Saying that it didn't look right. Putting what I thought would make it better, but with only 3 angles to go on. I don't actually know what it would look in normal gameplay. Maybe it looks perfect when you are watching it from the back. With no reply to my suggestion either one of two things happened:

A.) They read it and filed it away with suggestions

or

B.) They didn't bother to read it

Either one explains the situation that you are all getting at. I voiced a "Bad" opinion against what they did, and I didn't even play the game. The difference is, my viewpoint of it all is skewed by lack of full interactivity. The Devs also didn't get distracted going, "Oh god... Wait... You alone think that?? We're going to scrap our animation and start over".

Back to the point...

Demos... I think it would be a good idea, and something that I haven't really seen other people do (and probably wont). Compile a little demo stage that has whatever the new feature is in it. Then let people play with it. People could finish it in 10 seconds or 10 minutes, but have a higher area of judgement to actually make educated suggestions (Not... Wow... That looked crappy... and hell the quality was shit anyway).

For things such as Mr. Mic's EMF Vision Video Demonstration. People would be able to walk around and when you got to an area his voice would pop up and say the same things that it did in the video. More fun to play with when you are more in control and can take a closer look. Club house, oh the possibilities... Cause that one felt like it was a little sloppy, could of benefited from a more interaction based presentation (When you're trying to keep talking while just floating around mentioning random things... you don't get as detailed as you can).

[frvge]

We don't have the neckbreak in-game, so even we don't know how it's going to work out. :P

[Cronky]

You CRAFTY Son of a Gun!

If you weren't my Father/Brother I'd seriously think about maybe writing you a strongly worded letter!

[Savior20061]

Lol, Cronky is pure awesome.
Ranking.
1. Cronky
2. Frvge
3. Mulled
4. Spekkio
5. everyone else
6. Westfall
7. Agent
8. Agent again.