SCCT Versus Maps

[YaYz0r]

Here you have most of the maps ever released to the public: http://kll.c-station.net/index.php?site=files&cat=1.

Woah, I guess the other 10% of my prediction was right.  I had never seen this site before probably because it is German or some European language.  It does not have all the maps, such as Station Orbitale or Die Turnhalle, but it has almost all.   Yayz0r is there any way to know who made any of those maps?  If so, could we get a hold of them for permission to use them?  I see two AIM accounts on there but that is the only contact information I can see.

Well, I have got all the maps that were available on www.splintercellonline.net plus a few more that could only be found on other sites. Unfortunately, the only information I have got about the makers of the maps is what can be found in readme files, pictures and such and it sounds like you already checked those.    

[frvge]

I should have a semi-working version of SCWorld on my server, but I don't feel the need to check it for info.

[CurdyMilk]

Unlocked. Silly me. Thought it was in another forum. My bad. I already had my punishment by having a 5-10 sec blackout today. Luckily in the hospital, but still... anyway, I still prefer if we can leave the copyright stuff and stay on the maps-part.

Aww I hope you feel better  :P

[CurdyMilk]

Here you have most of the maps ever released to the public: http://kll.c-station.net/index.php?site=files&cat=1.

Woah, I guess the other 10% of my prediction was right.  I had never seen this site before probably because it is German or some European language.  It does not have all the maps, such as Station Orbitale or Die Turnhalle, but it has almost all.   Yayz0r is there any way to know who made any of those maps?  If so, could we get a hold of them for permission to use them?

Well, I have got all the maps that were available on www.splintercellonline.net plus a few more that could only be found on other sites. Unfortunately, the only information I have got about the makers of the maps is what can be found in readme files, pictures and such and it sounds like you already checked those.    

Yeah I got a lot of maps from splintercellonline.net when it was up and running too.  Some of the ones I posted were from a french website that I cannot remember anymore.  I will re-check the readme files for contact information but I doubt I will find any.

[CurdyMilk]

Ok this is for the devs.  I have reviewed the readme/info files for the downloaded maps.  I have found some contact information for a few of them.  If you don't believe me, download these yourself to verify this.  Rather than contacting them myself, I feel as if it would be your responsibility to ask permission if you desire to use these.  I will use direct quotations, and some are in other languages.  Maybe some people on here can understand them.  The emails are fairly obvious though.  Note that I did not include any maps that we already know or the ones that did not have any information attached to them.  

Eden-
[info]
Nom=Eden
Info=Eden par Carmofin ( rolfrenark@gmx.net ) . Visitez son site : www.carmofin.com . Pour que la map fonctionne, vous avez besoin des UMPs et de steel squat, cartes que vous pouvez également vous procurer sur splintercellmaps. Carmofin remercie FIN-Ravager, Defcon_5 et tout ceux qui l'ont aidé à venir à bout de ce projet.

HQ Zodiak-
[info]
Nom=HQ ZODIAK    by    Red Flash (with CamNet)
Info=HQ Zodiak, no comment, bon jeux :-) Pour me contacter, une seul adresse, ixibox@gmail.com

Red Tower-
[info]
Nom=REDTOWERBETA.
Info=Voici une map créée par RED FLASH.

Base Secret-
[info]
Nom=BASE SECRETE RED FLASH
Info=Voici la map créée par RED FLASH.

Heliport-
[info]
Nom=Heliport 1.1
Info=Voici la map Heliport 1.1 créée par LIB-cobra_fr, elle représente un centre d'accueil d'helicoptères avec de nombreux objectifs et de piratage à réaliser, bien équilibrée, cette carte est trés agréable à jouer. et cette mise a jours corrige quelque bug

Island-
[info]
Nom=SCCT_PC_map_island
Info=voici une carte du genre palace réalisée par zobou et ArGuS-ClebaR

Sublabs-
[info]
Nom=SubLabs
Info=SubLabs par Red_Son ( red_october@gmx.de ). Visitez http://www.rainbowsix.org et http://www.vth-freedom.net. La carte et ses données ne doivent pas être modifiées ou utilisées sans l'autorisation écrite de l'auteur.

Cargoship-
[info]
Nom=Cargo Ship par Vth_F_silver
Info=Vous avez besoin des maps Steel Squat et UMP Schermerhorn pour lancer la carte. Vous n'avez pas le droit d'utiliser ou de modifier la carte et ses données pour d'autres maps sans l'autorisation écrite de l'auteur.

Hotel 57-
[info]
Nom=HOTEL 57
Info=    map by REVANG3R

Minen Gefarth-
[info]
Nom=Minen Gefarth
Info=Le Niveau est composé de 2 batiments distincts et de 2 parties en extérieur : un vieil immeuble désafecté et un nouveau en aménagement. Configuration requise : Installer Heliport, Steel Sqat, et Base Secret.

Station Orbitale-
[info]
Nom=Station Orbitale
Info=Station Orbitale | Version du 21/10/2006 | Map by REVANG3R

Not all of these will be useful, but the ones with direct emails could possibly work as long as the email is not extinct.  Minen Gefarth and Island are super trash maps that you would not want to use anyway, but the rest have we have some hope for.  And this is not intended to direct the focus back to the copying issues.  It is just possibility in case you decide to consider them.

[frvge]

AFAIK we're not going to ask them, at least not in the near future. We're recruiting more modelers and level designers and environmental artists to create a new map.

Spekkio and I had a chat and we sorted it out. Most was a misunderstanding. In the end, most of our views are the same.

[CurdyMilk]

AFAIK we're not going to ask them, at least not in the near future. We're recruiting more modelers and level designers and environmental artists to create a new map.

Even better yet, maybe they would like to join the team since they have experience with this map style.  Ya never know...

[Spekkio]

frvge thought I was talking about copying and pasting the maps into PS exactly as-is, which I wasn't since they'd look like ass. Once he realized I was talking about recreating the graphical elements similar to what they did with the sticky cam, we saw eye-to-eye. Besides, what map couldn't use balance improvements anyway?

[Westfall]

frvge thought I was talking about copying and pasting the maps into PS exactly as-is, which I wasn't since they'd look like ass. Once he realized I was talking about recreating the graphical elements similar to what they did with the sticky cam, we saw eye-to-eye. Besides, what map couldn't use balance improvements anyway?

I didn't realize Frvge thought we were talking about just porting it out. That would be illegal suckers. Duh =)

[goodkebab]

You can,  as long as none of the assets were created by UBI, and the original Authors get credit where it is due.

Realistically though,   who is going to put their money where their mouth is and actually port the maps to Unreal 3.0? As it is,  the dev team has enough on their hands.

[Cronky]

You can,  as long as none of the assets were created by UBI, and the original Authors get credit where it is due.

Realistically though,   who is going to put their money where their mouth is and actually port the maps to Unreal 3.0? As it is,  the dev team has enough on their hands.

This question may have been answered before, but I'd just like a little Clarification for my own sake.

So in the end, are the actual OFFICIAL Ubisoft PT/CT Maps not possible if fan created (Meaning the PS Staff doesn't make it)? Aquarius, Deftec, Mt. Hospital, Orphanage, Station, Etc.

Like I've said many times before my favorite map was Deftec. Now straight up Porting it would be illegal as has been stated (And it would look crappy), but doing something such as what you all are doing with Club House is alright? Where you can use the same basic Layout, but change what it looks like.

My 2nd part to the question is where the line WOULD be if that was to be possible? Again I bring up your Club House map that you all have. Widely different textures and a couple extra bits, but quite the same.

Just seems to me that people that may have a want to bring back maps kind of in the same vein as you all did would need to know exactly what they would need to do to what extent to come out clean.

[Spekkio]

Cronky, here's the nuts and bolts of it:

I made a post a few pages ago about the criteria which judges use to decide if something is copyright infringement or not. Based on those, using the Ubi map layouts with updated graphics/objects from UDK would not be copyright infringement, just like modeling your own version of a sticky cam is not copyright infringement. If you pair balance updates with the graphics updates, I think that you've clearly crossed the line into transformative territory.

Basically, they don't hold a monopoly off the floor plans of their maps.

However, here's the catch: there are many cases where big corporations (ie, Ubisoft) use the threat of lawsuits to get their way, even when they are in the wrong. They do this because they have the money to afford lawyers and you don't. If Ubisoft threatened an international lawsuit for copyright infringement, no one on this board is going to have the money to hire a lawyer to fight it. On the other hand, Joe Schmo from Germany who made Die Turnhalle isn't going to do this, particularly because he'd lose.

So when it comes to porting official CT/PT maps, you have to use your own judgment here. One would think that if Ubi were going to threaten a lawsuit for the creation of PS, they'd have done so long before someone considered porting their maps. They also didn't object to user-made ports of their PT maps. Finally, CT has a very meager online player base, so it's not like you're devaluing their product, so they really have no reason financially to bother raising a fuss. On the other hand, it does carry some risk with it, as does this entire project. So while the law is on your side, you have to make the call here. If it were me, I'd say it's safe...I just don't have the time to model couches and boxes and shit myself to put them into a map.

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

Spekkio:
Afaik if you can't afford a lawyer you get one from the government? Not a very good one, but I think it'd be enough ::)

[Spekkio]

Criminal and tort law are two different animals in the U.S.

[Cronky]

Cronky, here's the nuts and bolts of it:

I made a post a few pages ago about the criteria which judges use to decide if something is copyright infringement or not. Based on those, using the Ubi map layouts with updated graphics/objects from UDK would not be copyright infringement, just like modeling your own version of a sticky cam is not copyright infringement. If you pair balance updates with the graphics updates, I think that you've clearly crossed the line into transformative territory.

Basically, they don't hold a monopoly off the floor plans of their maps.

However, here's the catch: there are many cases where big corporations (ie, Ubisoft) use the threat of lawsuits to get their way, even when they are in the wrong. They do this because they have the money to afford lawyers and you don't. If Ubisoft threatened an international lawsuit for copyright infringement, no one on this board is going to have the money to hire a lawyer to fight it. On the other hand, Joe Schmo from Germany who made Die Turnhalle isn't going to do this, particularly because he'd lose.

So when it comes to porting official CT/PT maps, you have to use your own judgment here. One would think that if Ubi were going to threaten a lawsuit for the creation of PS, they'd have done so long before someone considered porting their maps. They also didn't object to user-made ports of their PT maps. Finally, CT has a very meager online player base, so it's not like you're devaluing their product, so they really have no reason financially to bother raising a fuss. On the other hand, it does carry some risk with it, as does this entire project. So while the law is on your side, you have to make the call here. If it were me, I'd say it's safe...I just don't have the time to model couches and boxes and shit myself to put them into a map.

I get what you said, and read your post on the other page.

I was generally trying to figure out the PS Team's Line. Not to what Extent it is frowned upon or not.

Are they accepting Fan made maps of Official Ubisoft maps? Since this post mostly touched on remaking maps that were fan created to begin with.

What extent do they find themselves in the clear when remaking a map for their use? (Club House)