Challenge based Rankings

[RedBull]

I'm with noop on this one...the player with a larger selection of gadgets is always at an advantage just because they have choice. If more gadgets are implemented, i say give them to everyone from the get-go.

[frvge]

What's the point in making another account? Just change your display name...

[Spekkio]

Dear Cronky,

You're a fucking moron with too much time on your hands.

QED

Love,

Spekkio  :-*

[CurdyMilk]

@Noop and Spekkio (To a much lesser extent STON3 also)

WEAPON REWARDS
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Unlocking different options for Weapons/Gadgets (Such as: Wrist Hacker vs Sticky Shocker Gun) is different then a character or Primary Weapon/Gadgets (Sticky Shocker Gun).

It's about pacing a Player's experience.

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Pacing Example
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Say you're playing Doom. You are given a pistol at the start and from there you gain weapon after weapon until at the end you are wielding a BFG with enough ammo to vaporize anything you happen to see (Or Will see).

You could cheat and get all the weapons at the start, but if you were purposefully given the weapons at the start then the Player wouldn't feel any progression; wouldn't understand the basics. Instead, having a false impression that the BFG is the only weapon you'd ever need. So why use others?

While this makes sense in a Single Player Shooter the same pacing can be compared, yet not connected to other Genres or Game Types.

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Actual Rewards Explanation via TF2
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On to TF2 again... Why their Rewards system works is that everyone starts at square One. Balanced weapon rewards are their pacing.

You start out with a Sniper Rifle with The Sniper. No need to fiddle with Menus or wonder how the mechanics of it all are going to work... You aim, you fire. Simple steps because beginners aren't going to instantly know everything right off the bat. No matter how much experience they have at similar games.

Later you can acquire the Huntsman, a Bow that plays differently than the Sniper Rifle, but ultimately keeps you doing the same thing. The amount of time between acquiring said weapon, and you starting is their "Pacing". Once you get it, you will know the menus, you will understand the objectives, you will know the classes, and finally... You know the pros and cons of what you first had.

The same can be done with Project Stealth, and how I saw your idea as a good one.

Not everyone is going to have played CT before this game, so not everyone is going to understand the dramatic difference between a "Sticky Shocker Gun" and a "Wrist Hacker" (If both were implemented). The choice of both from the start can lead to confusion, and an even steeper learning curve.

Thus Pacing could be implemented through the idea of your (Noop's) Reward system. By the time they get the Wrist Hacker, they will know all their strategies with the SS Gun. It's not as if SS gun makes you Unable to do Stealth or Aggro, or that the Wrist Hacker is better than the SS Gun. Just that you will understand the basics of the gameplay BEFORE given a choice you don't understand.

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Street Fighter 4
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Fighting games are kind of the exception to this progression rule.

While one could say that playing through the story mode with X amount of Characters for X amount of  hours is your "Basic" training before you get new characters. It's not really the same. Since each character is unique, though some combos harder to master.

The use of this gameplay theory is just a ploy to make you play their whole game... Since if you could play as anyone from the Get Go... Who would play as any of their other characters? Hell, who would play the Single Player at all?

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Ending Side Note
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Everything I use as an Example is just that... an Example... when I'm thinking of it. Not set in stone. I don't mean to say, "The ONLY way this could work is if you made the Spy get a Wrist Hacker", but it's a fine item that is different, but doesn't really affect gameplay in a HUGE way. Again, it doesn't stop you from hacking objectives, breaking necks, or being Sneaky/Rambo... Instead is just another option with a balanced set of rules to vary your style of play (IF you decide to use it).


STAT TRACKING
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It's true some people will play for Stats alone. There is no way against that though. It's like how some people will only play Project Stealth for the Spy side of the game... caring not for Merc. Some even refusing to play the Merc side of gameplay. This idea is not meant for those people, but rather the ones who want some kind of longevity out of their experience.

I'm all for winning a game, or killing a Spy/Merc, but how long will that last? What's the point if I get NOTHING for it? Much like how CT has died out almost completely (Unless otherwise Set up to be played)... There's no reason to keep on playing. I've gotten my 3 years straight of playing Spy and Merc, it's just pure monotony now.

With Stat Tracking and the combined idea from STON3 and Noop people could play the game with the illusion of progress. By no means has it been mentioned that there should be a LEADERBOARD saying "X person is #1 at playing this game", but something you could judge yourself on is better than nothing.

Also, the people who are playing for Stats alone are still playing. Better to have a bigger community of players to pick from, rather then a smaller one. For fun and stability of the active people that is.

RANK AND AUTOMATCHING
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Rank/Automatch ideas are just there so that you could actually play the game against fair competition.

Hypothetical Situation: Me being new to the game (A while after Release) wont know all the hiding spots, what I'm doing, or what to look for. I don't want to have to endure 15 games against people that have been playing since Beta. Getting headshotted because I haven't full grasped the controls fluidly yet.

No matter how fun the game CAN be, if I have to storm the beaches of Normandy just to start playing... I'd probably find a new game to play instead.

Choice against your opponents works badly if you are the Better One weeding others out. On the flip side it is good because when you are the Lesser One trying to find others of the same Skill.. It makes sense.

IN CONCLUSION
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All of this combines into a Longer Lasting experience. Since after a year or two the game will be losing it's "New Game Smell", popular as it may be among the lack of competition... There has to be a reason to keep playing. Lest this turns into what CT is now. Admittedly there is no way to make this go on FOREVER... but depending on the options you can at least pass it off for a long time.

Look at Halo... Whether or not you like the Multiplayer there are a LOT of people still playing it. Doesn't seem like it will die off soon, partly because there is a lot of Player Feedback. Medals, Movies, Easy Level Creator, Pictures, Active Website, Achievements, Stats, the list goes on... This is all while the gameplay is fun itself too. While they are all, in reality, pointless; people's reactions aren't. The Community is alive, and caters to every type of person.

Limiting something just because, "It's Stupid", or because, "I don't like it" leaves it with a shallow experience.

First off, how do you have so much time to write a huge essay every day?  And second, the pacing idea is the worst idea I have ever heard in my life.  Aside from that, statistics should be counted but not emphasized to the extent of other games.  It should be more of a side note than a major aim.  I do see your point in trying to make the game last longer with unlockables, though.  However, I do not see this idea working.  It would seem to scare people away rather than make them want to play more.  The only way to mix it up that seems legitimate is to unlock new designs or get awards that have nothing to do with the effects of the actual gameplay abilities or options for gadgets.  Along with that, there should be a certain amount of maps released when the game starts, and there should be a new wave being made so that there are regular intervals between releases.  This way, people can play the old and new maps while still anticipating new ones.  The method would keep the game alive much longer than just awarding new gadgets.  Another thing would be to have tournaments and honors or recognitions for your accomplishments.  And last but not least, of course, the word needs to be spread through advertising that this game actually exists because there are a lot of people out there who would like this game but don't even know about it yet.  Just think of the Chaos Theory community alone.  There are still plenty of people there that don't have any idea about this.

[VaNilla]

I think it's pretty unanimous that unlockable weapons/gadgets is a bad idea for Project Stealth, the equipment of both mercenaries and spies is highly specialised, the moment you take one item away, there is a major change in options for the player. In a game where complex tactics and teamwork is vital to your success, this is not the favourable option. To get back on topic, do you think that these challenges alone would be a good addition to the game? I have yet to see how they can provide anything but an improved gaming experience. Here's a couple of ideas, post your own and I'll add them to the first post :).

Spy Challenges

Artistic (Roll through 100 laser defences)
Betrayal (Ledge grab a mercenary, and throw him onto his team-mate)
Brute Force (Complete a total of 100 objectives)
Commando (Neutralise 25 mercenaries)
Disgrace (Kill a mercenary with his own Mine)
Electrified (Shoot 200 mercenaries with the Sticky Shocker)
Hangman (Perform 25 inverted neck breaks)
Heart Breaker (Detect 25 mercenaries with the Heartbeat Sensor)
Manipulation (Plant 50 Alarm Snares)
Ninja (Remain undetected throughout the match)
Panther (Neutralise a mercenary from a Walljump)
Saviour (Grab a mercenary who has pinned down your team-mate)
Sedatation (Gas two mercanaries with one Sticky Camera)
Snap, Crackle & Pop (Perform 50 neck breaks)
Stalker (Hack 5 mercenary voice-communications)
Strike! (Strike attack a crouching mercenary)
Team Player (Perform 50 co-op interactions)
Technician (Disable all defences - hackable cameras, mines etc)
Till Death Do Us Part (Choke a mercenary to death 5 times)
Vertigo (Perform 25 ledge grabs)

Mercenary Challenges

Beserk (Kill 25 spies with the Beserker move)
Boom, Headshot! (Kill 50 spies with a headshot)
Charge! (Charge down 25 spies)
Double Nade (Kill two spies with one Grenade)
Hero (Kill a spy who has your team-mate in a choke-hold)
Humiliation (Kill 25 spies with the Finisher move)
I See Red... (Detect 25 spies with the Laser)
Laserdeath (Kill 50 spies with the Laser Mine)
Multi-Kill (Kill two spies with one Bullet)
Poison (Kill 50 spies with the Poison Mine)
Proxify (Kill 50 spies with the Proxy Mine)
Resourceful (Refill the supplies of 25 team-mates with the Backpack)
Spy! (Track 25 spies with the Spy Trap)
Turbulence (Detect 100 spies with the Motion Tracking visor)

Global Challenges

Baby Steps (Win 25 rounds)
Blur (Complete a match within 3 minutes)
Godlike (Stay alive throughout a match)
Medic (Heal 50 team-mates)
Unstoppable (Win 2 rounds in a row)

Note: Each progressive challenge can be beaten again, just multiply the number by two. For example, the 'Medic' challenge can be beaten again after healing 100 team-mates.

[Cronky]

Why is it that ALL the good responses happen while I'm asleep! Just too unfair...

@"People" Responses below

How I Make Long Posts Everyday
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See this is a combination of a few things:

A.) Simple Ideas with large areas of explanation. I could pick any number of ways to explain my thinking. The more I use, the more you all will understand what I mean.

B.)I obviously like to give Examples. That fills up a nice portion. Was the Doom reference NEEDED to prove my point of theory? No, but now that you can see it you know what I'm talking about.

C.) I edit my posts A LOT and read them over MANY times. Maybe I'm not grammatically correct, but I can tell when a certain part of what I'm saying can be read wrong, or when I have a typo. That LOOOONG Post I edited around probably 10 times. Adding little pieces, and restructuring a few times. The Street Fighter part was actually near the top if you can believe that. Then I read it over and noticed that it didn't really pertain to the idea of that section of the post.

D.) I don't work on them Constantly. I open it up and think of ideas while I do other stuff. Don't hit POST till I get everything down.

Why I Make Long Posts
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Each one of these Sections has so many reasons...

A.)This forum is weird in the amount of people that are close minded to ideas. Where some might go, "This could work IF...". Most of you go, "That wont work BECAUSE...". It's a very subtle line with groups mostly forming on the latter side. Someone has to be an opposition else we're going to lose potential.

B.)If you have an Idea... You should be able to defend it.

This place is great for people that want the exact same experience that another game gave them. While CT was Great! I know (and so do many of you) that without slight alterations it will end up exactly the same. How do I know? Look at all the SvM servers. There's just over how many people are on this site daily. Granted at PEAK TIMES it can reach up to the 100's. That is though, as Spekkio mentioned in another post... Not a lot.

C.)I like to give a clear message. Text has a bad habit of being misread. The longer you make it with a number of examples makes it easier to tell what the person is getting at.

D.)This forum isn't SUPER active.

I treat each post as if I'm doing One half of a conversation. Trying to hit all points while bringing up new ones to respond to. So when someone else gets on to the forum... BAM even if they didn't have an opinion before, they might have one now.

RedBull has one post (Welcome to the Forum). That one post is against my idea. Do I feel bad that he doesn't agree? No. Am I glad that I may have said something so outrageous that he decided he Wanted to voice his opinion? Yeah.

E.) I could split this Post into about 10 little posts, but that's just a shameless waste of space. If you care to read, then read. If not, don't bash the idea. You don't have a FULL understanding unless you read the entire thing. Much like that line, "Don't Judge a Book by It's Cover".

F.) Plain and simple, I would rather a majority of my posts be constructive. To bare my entire opinion, rather than just one or two sentences summing it up.

PERSONAL RESPONSES
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@Spekkio

I expected more from you! Good response still cause you put a little humor in it, but baseless accusations isn't what I was thinking you were going to say.

@Redbull

I agree that getting weapons right off the bat is great! I never meant to say that, "HEY. This is the best way you could do what I'm saying". All I mean to say is that it's Different. That there is a way you could implement this type of idea that would make it work. Increasing Longevity of the gaming experience in the process.

Gadgets were really just an option here. Skins were mentioned before, Hats, etc. It's just that Gadgets would be more looked forward to. Something big enough to entice a want, but small enough to not ruin the game without having it.

(Again, if the Gadget rewards were just variations of the primary gadgets you already have)

@STON3

I'll have to disagree with the Bad Idea part. Everyone just stretches the idea to a point they don't want to see. That every gadget is JUST as useful as the next. That taking one thing away that you don't use could RUIN the experience for players that don't have it.

Again:

Remote Controlled Mines
Air Taser
Wrist Hacker
Phosphorus Grenades
Network Cams

None of these examples are Primary Gadgets. None of these give a huge advantage whether you have them or not. Never did I say that Flashbangs are locked, that anything that we've gotten used to in CT would be locked (Phosphorus being the joke Gadget because I like that grenade). Just Variations that are obviously balanced, and serve purely as another option to add to your arsenal.

Sure you may feel lacking right at the start of this games life because, "Hey... You had weapons and didn't bother to give them to me". On the flip side though, people who first join the game when it came out wont have a preconceived notion that they were SUPPOSED to have these at all. Possibly Enjoying the mechanic that actually play will lead them to getting something new.

As for the Challenges...

Great job! You got 99% of the ones I was thinking of... PLUS putting cool names to it.

Only one I don't think I saw was something along the lines of saving your partner when they are grabbed. Headshotting a spy who has grabbed your partner, or Grabbing a Merc that has pinned your partner. That would be fun and tough to unlock. That kind of thing.

Perhaps also one for straight up choking Spies/Mercs out. Not knocking them or or snapping their neck, but just held till death.

@Frvge

The idea of using another account was brought up because of Rank and whatnot. People use Dummy Accounts to make themselves able to play easy people. (I know you understand that, just wanted to clarify)

I understand now that putting a rank on a Person is a little conveluted and easy to mess up. Making it a notification on the server they are joining on the other hand is a good one. One lobby, but when people make a game they can tailor the description to show what kinds of people they want (Pro/Casual could work there).

@Curdly

Pacing isn't a bad idea... if implemented right.

It's the reasoning behind why you don't start MW2 Multiplayer with Every Gun.

TF2 with Every Item

The reasoning behind options

And

The Reason behind SOME unlockables.

Some games do go overboard (Such as DA did) and say that people CAN'T handle certain amounts of stuff. I'm not saying that they CAN'T handle it, but that they should get something for playing the game. A way to shake things up that isn't within the norm.

It's inevitable that there is going to be new stuff being put out. User-made maps, Tourneys, etc. aren't new. You type it as if CT never had those kinds of things though. This, much like STON3's Challenges, and a robust Stat Tracking system, are just ways to Add On Top of the already foreseeable future of PS. To make it last longer than what it's trying to replace.

Summary
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I seem to be one of the only people that can at least grasp a reason why Gadget Rewards COULD work. Not that they will. Not that they will even be put in the game. Just an inkling of how it COULD work, not why it WONT.

Everyone against it brings up the same ideas. That Spy's and Merc's gadgets are UNIQUE in every way. That each Gadget is it's own entity that cannot be changed. One gadget missing, means gameplay fairness is GONE. That each gadget is for a Specific Situation, without the option to stifle that very specific situation, you are as good as dead.

You don't have access to all counters to all situations no matter what though. Flares are great on really dark levels, but if you don't bring them it doesn't mean you lose if the lights get shut off.

So what if Flares in this example didn't get unlocked till... 5 games in. Oh No! Spies beware because now that the Merc has flares, you can't hide in the dark. Oh wait... He traded Flares for his Mines... Well now we don't have to worry about random explosions.

Again I must mention that in my vision of this idea No PRIMARY Gadget is locked. Primary in my mind is All the gadgets that we have all come to love. (Aside from Phosphorus :D)

Variations COULD work though. The thought that everyone has the basics, but COULD get more for playing is a reason to play. Everyone starting off wont have these extra options, but to what extent will it change their game. Spies still must hack, steal, blow up stuff. Mercs still have to Kill the Spies. Giving progression as to how people will do that isn't unfair, because no one comes out as Top Dog if they have all the extras. Someone who has everything can still be beat by someone that has Nothing. Someone just starting wont have a bad experience because nothing rewarded is Game Breakingly Good.

Combined with Challenges from STON3 and Stat Tracking of some sort it could hit all bases of people. Be more widespread on it's appeal.

[VaNilla]

You have a point, but so much of the gameplay revolves around the use of different gadgets (no matter how effective they are), so I think that it's not a good idea to be forced to unlock them. As for your challenge ideas, I like them :D. I've updated the list.

Spy Challenges

Saviour (Grab a mercenary who has pinned down your team-mate)
Till Death Do Us Part (Choke a mercenary to death 5 times)

Mercenary Challenges

Hero (Kill a spy who has your team-mate in a choke-hold)

[Cronky]

You have a point, but so much of the gameplay revolves around the use of different gadgets (no matter how effective they are), so I think that it's not a good idea to be forced to unlock them. As for your challenge ideas, I like them :D. I've updated the list.

Spy Challenges

Saviour (Grab a mercenary who has pinned down your team-mate)
Till Death Do Us Part (Choke a mercenary to death 5 times)

Mercenary Challenges

Hero (Kill a spy who has your team-mate in a choke-hold)

I get that it's not a perfect idea. I see the "problem" with some people having something, and some people not having something. It's not that I disagree completely. Just that I've tried to tailor the idea to that niche spot, while not completely altering gameplay or tactics.

Each Variation of a gadget I use as an example is akin to the weapons/etc in TF2, as that is my major example of this technique. A fun side option that in reality doesn't serve a MAJOR purpose aside from minor tactic change.

Remote Controlled Mines: While useful for a trap, it require that the Merc KNOWS you're there for it to kill. Of course things like setting them up near hack spots and whatnot comes up with that, but without indication of how close a spy is to one (It doesn't blow up in proximity or by laser) it's easily removable (Though perhaps it takes... 1 full second to actually remove it). It's not INVISIBLE, but perhaps harder to see (EMF being pretty useless at seeing it). As is with the difference in indicators for each type of mine already.

That's one example I've tried to think through as to have serve as a real "Reward". No one is at fault for NOT having it, it's not MORE useful than any other type of mine, but it's different enough to warrant someone being excited when they get it.

Challenge Names/Descriptions are Perfect! I'll shout out if I can think of more.

[frvge]

I meant RedBull is a smurf and I suggest him to abandon that one and change his normal username to RedBull. Or w/e, I'm not sober.

[CurdyMilk]

About the challenges...Most seem fine except the number needed to complete some of them may need to be altered to make them all balanced because some seem way easier and faster than others.  The only way to get accurate and even numbers for each would be to play the game ahead of time to get an idea of one that is appropriate.  And I am not sure there is a way to actually implement some of them.  For instance, how would it be possible to play a full game undetected and the game would actually know you were undetected?  Like I said, some numbers need modification and some would be hard to make possible but overall they seem decent.  The only issue would be that some people would spend more time trying to unlock these than actually trying to win the game.  So I don't know if it is worth it...it is really up to the devs.  If they decide to use it, then we can give more ideas of challenges.  If not, then we are wasting our time.

About the skins/costumes...If this idea goes through, it could work if used in the right way.  The way it could backfire is if the new attire makes the spies and mercs look unrealistic or just plain cheesy in the process.  They would need to look like something the spies and mercs would actually wear in the situation, not some joke hats or goofy clothes.  Overall, spies would only wear dark clothes so the only real change you could make would be instead of the green eyes/glow stuff to have different colors for that part.  For the mercs, the only real change could be the color of the glasses or maybe the headpiece, etc.  Remember, this game is serious and somewhat scary (or at least it is suppose to be), so too many changes would ruin that aspect.

Speaking of scary, here is one side note.  Do you have any sketches for a castle style map?  It would be really cool to have spies enter into a castle through cracks or holes in the brick outside.  The outside could have a gate and spooky dead trees with cool sounds.  It could have torches similar to pyrocryptic with metal knight statues and elegant dining, tables, paintings, rugs, swords, armor, etc.  It could turn out really cool.

[frvge]

A map like that is not planned.

[Spark Mandriller]

I meant RedBull is a smurf and I suggest him to abandon that one and change his normal username to RedBull. Or w/e, I'm not sober.

Who is he? Just outta interest.

[LennardF1989]

Personally I'm in for BFBC2 like medals (can be re-earned, don't give advantages, track stats at the same time) and "Personal Best", not because it's a "hype" but because I noticed, while playing games, I enjoy it to be recognized for my actions.

Just finished playing Batman, which uses GFW Live for "Achievements" and I was suprised how I liked it that I earned achievements for having say a 20x combo. Note that I don't like achievements in PS, because you'll get achievement servers and people playing for achievements in games that should be serious, hence why subtle medals and a personal best (real-time or after you died?) would be a good combination.

[Spekkio]

Cronky has exceeded his word count.

BAN HIM!

[Cronky]

Don't you tempt me to make a longer post!!!!

;D