Poll about changes in gameplay

[Gawain]

If you lower the complete requirement of smoke and chaff grenades, spies will actually bring the equipment they want, not ones they need. I think this would make spies use equipment more and make the game more strategic.

Indeed.  :D
In most cases, spam hast few to nothing to do with skill, and a  game enforcing spam at competitive level gets very boring very fast (e.g. cnc3 tib. wars right now, it's all about tankspam) :-\

It got stuck between an EAX argument, people might have missed it. Discuss!

EAX sux my balls ::)  You got the same super hearing in bf...

Btw, another idea to make stealth more effective, but this time when it's done with teamplay: Make the gun much louder and decrease the hearing of the merc for a while after some shots (try standing at a shooting range without ear protection and you will know what i mean) 8)

[Valserp]

If you lower the complete requirement of smoke and chaff grenades, spies will actually bring the equipment they want, not ones they need. I think this would make spies use equipment more and make the game more strategic.

It got stuck between an EAX argument, people might have missed it. Discuss!

Uh, I don't need smoke, neither do lots of people.
Chaff is not required so much because of the map's passive defences, but because of the merc's mines and traps. It's meant as a counter to those gadgets, just as much gasmask is meant as a counter to smoke nades and cams. So theoretically, if mercs don't take mines and traps, spies wouldn't need chaff.
In reality, a merc always has mines. So spies (nearly)always carry chaff. I don't see anything wrong with that.

[Overstatement]

I said you need or even NEED smoke in your games, I did not say you need them. Sure, I don't need smoke but I do need it if I want to survive running away from the merc. Their guns are just too strong and are probably designed to assume the spy has smoke. Yes, I have tried to play some games without smoke and they didn't work out. I'm sure a lot of other people need smoke too, I've not played many people who don't use smoke.

I bring chaff almost always to disable those mines that you just can't get to. You know, the ones that even if you knew they were there, you could not get past it. You would think spies would be clever enough to slowly reach into the window and remove that mine, but no, they got to skip over the window ledge and blow up. There are just too many places on maps where mines can completely block a passage for a spy without chaff. It's almost a map exploit and probably a tactic the developers didn't have in mind.

[frvge]

I usually take chaff and flash. No smoke for me ;-)

[Overstatement]

I'm sure your partners appreciate you encouraging mercs to become MT whores.

[Gui Brazil]

No smoke for me either.

[Valserp]

I said you need or even NEED smoke in your games, I did not say you need them. Sure, I don't need smoke but I do need it if I want to survive running away from the merc. Their guns are just too strong and are probably designed to assume the spy has smoke. Yes, I have tried to play some games without smoke and they didn't work out. I'm sure a lot of other people need smoke too, I've not played many people who don't use smoke.

You can escape a merc just as effectively without smoke. All you do is shock and dive for cover. Furthermore, both MT and EMF can counter smoke to a degree, and with gasmask being present, you can't really expect to slow a merc down all that much. I only use smoke on Missile Strike and Aquarius, because of the tight quarters, all the rest of the maps I either do with flash/chaff or chaff only. I don't NEED it.
As for smoke being used as defence against the merc's strong guns - I actually started using flash as a counter to the uzi+lag combination. Smoke just doesn't cut because most players just laser your ass, MT you or whatever.

There are just too many places on maps where mines can completely block a passage for a spy without chaff. It's almost a map exploit and probably a tactic the developers didn't have in mind.

Nuh-huh, they DID have it in mind, because they made chaff so it would affect stuff THROUGH WALLS. That wasn't so in PT.

I'm sure your partners appreciate you encouraging mercs to become MT whores.

What the frag are you on about, mercs would use MT with or without smoke being present.

[Overstatement]

You can escape a merc just as effectively without smoke. All you do is shock and dive for cover. Furthermore, both MT and EMF can counter smoke to a degree, and with gasmask being present, you can't really expect to slow a merc down all that much. I only use smoke on Missile Strike and Aquarius, because of the tight quarters, all the rest of the maps I either do with flash/chaff or chaff only. I don't NEED it.
As for smoke being used as defence against the merc's strong guns - I actually started using flash as a counter to the uzi+lag combination. Smoke just doesn't cut because most players just laser your ass, MT you or whatever.

We could debate this all day. I think a poll might be more effective.

There are just too many places on maps where mines can completely block a passage for a spy without chaff. It's almost a map exploit and probably a tactic the developers didn't have in mind.

Nuh-huh, they DID have it in mind, because they made chaff so it would affect stuff THROUGH WALLS. That wasn't so in PT.

So you agree that setting up mines in places that spies can't get to without chaff is good and reaching over something or below the vent your sitting in to remove mines is a bad idea?

I'm sure your partners appreciate you encouraging mercs to become MT whores.

What the frag are you on about, mercs would use MT with or without smoke being present.

I was talking about using flash all the time. Only counter to flash is MT, EMF or looking away. Not sure what you guys do today but back when, most of us had enough morals to not be in MT all the time. It was unethical.

[Valserp]

You can escape a merc just as effectively without smoke. All you do is shock and dive for cover. Furthermore, both MT and EMF can counter smoke to a degree, and with gasmask being present, you can't really expect to slow a merc down all that much. I only use smoke on Missile Strike and Aquarius, because of the tight quarters, all the rest of the maps I either do with flash/chaff or chaff only. I don't NEED it.
As for smoke being used as defence against the merc's strong guns - I actually started using flash as a counter to the uzi+lag combination. Smoke just doesn't cut because most players just laser your ass, MT you or whatever.

We could debate this all day. I think a poll might be more effective.

Not really... I'm right, you're wrong.

There are just too many places on maps where mines can completely block a passage for a spy without chaff. It's almost a map exploit and probably a tactic the developers didn't have in mind.

Nuh-huh, they DID have it in mind, because they made chaff so it would affect stuff THROUGH WALLS. That wasn't so in PT.

So you agree that setting up mines in places that spies can't get to without chaff is good and reaching over something or below the vent your sitting in to remove mines is a bad idea?

Duh! That's the idea behind mines and traps in the first place. To slow spies down by forcing them to take alternate routes or just by taking a helluva time to remove them. Chaff allows spies to pass by traps faster but it gives their position away. Now doesn't that even out?

I'm sure your partners appreciate you encouraging mercs to become MT whores.

What the frag are you on about, mercs would use MT with or without smoke being present.

I was talking about using flash all the time. Only counter to flash is MT, EMF or looking away. Not sure what you guys do today but back when, most of us had enough morals to not be in MT all the time. It was unethical.

LOL? You're not saying that when I take flashbangs I am PROVOKING a merc to become an MT whore? Please, don't pull arguments out of your ass.

Are you Braiog?

[Gui Brazil]

He's definitely as annoying as Braiog.....

[Overstatement]

Not really... I'm right, you're wrong.

Ok.

Duh! That's the idea behind mines and traps in the first place. To slow spies down by forcing them to take alternate routes or just by taking a helluva time to remove them. Chaff allows spies to pass by traps faster but it gives their position away. Now doesn't that even out?

To slow them down by looking around slowly to find mines. Not slow them down by making them take a detour because they didn't bring chaff.

LOL? You're not saying that when I take flashbangs I am PROVOKING a merc to become an MT whore? Please, don't pull arguments out of your ass.

It was a joke that wasn't even directed at you. But then I had to explain it which made it unfunny which apparently made it funny in a different way.

Are you Braiog?

No, see?

[Valserp]

Duh! That's the idea behind mines and traps in the first place. To slow spies down by forcing them to take alternate routes or just by taking a helluva time to remove them. Chaff allows spies to pass by traps faster but it gives their position away. Now doesn't that even out?

To slow them down by looking around slowly to find mines. Not slow them down by making them take a detour because they didn't bring chaff.

Slow them down looking for mines? Like yeah, it takes a whooping 0.3 seconds to turn heat vision on and check the doorway for lasers. You can hear proxies while freely moving around.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that looking for mines takes a lot of time.

[Overstatement]

0.3 seconds of stopping for every room you're in is a lot of time. And you're also forgetting the time it takes to remove the mines without chaff (for stealth). You sure won't be running through hallways without blowing yourself up.

Edit: I know you're exaggerating but 0.3 seconds is the average time it takes for a person to blink.

[LiVe.To.Di3]

its hard what you choose. Some people have different eq. I sometimes use bang and smoke but then in museum when you are standing at a corner near cafe the merces always team up and snipe at you. I also take chaff and bang, which stops me from fighting unless the other spy has smoke and helps me.

[Gawain]

i thought it was 0.03s, but nevermind.

Some of you guys seem to have no idea how to use flashbangs properly. The best use of them is directly after tazering when the merc has no vision running (chaffed merc works, too). Sometimes they also kick people out of the sniper mode (I'm afraif only sometimes). Smoke is by far more effective, because the gas mask runs out very quickly (most annoying aggro strat besides host going for necks is spamming smokes and cams the whole game, you have absolutely no chance against it but committing suicide for new eq)