Poll about changes in gameplay

[InvisibleMan999]

LOL? You're not saying that when I take flashbangs I am PROVOKING a merc to become an MT whore? Please, don't pull arguments out of your ass.

Actually, flashbangs do really encourage people to MT whore. Not that it's the primary reason, mind you, but it's just an added incentive that I happen to be immune to flash while in MT as well as getting all the good benefits of MT.

Against a flash guy I tend to never take MT/EMF off, at all.

[Valserp]

0.3 seconds of stopping for every room you're in is a lot of time.

You can't cover every room with traps, they are limited.

And you're also forgetting the time it takes to remove the mines without chaff (for stealth). You sure won't be running through hallways without blowing yourself up.

No I'm not. From the beginning I have claimed that chaff is there for quick disposal of traps, but in turn - it gives your position away to the mercs. If you don't have chaff you are either slowed down tremendously, or you are forced to take a detour. You, on the other hand, are the one who claimed that chaff shouldn't be needed in doorways and that mines should only slow spies down by forcing them to look for them. Am I wrong?
What does that have to do with you claiming that spies OMGNEED smoke and chaff? Nothing.
You take smoke because it fits your (aggro) playstyle.
You take chaff because you want to neuter the merc's ability to slow you down with traps and mines.

If you don't take smoke, you have to rely on cover. There is plenty of it around the maps.
If you don't take chaff you'd better have snares in that slot, because you will be walking around a lot.

LOL? You're not saying that when I take flashbangs I am PROVOKING a merc to become an MT whore? Please, don't pull arguments out of your ass.

Actually, flashbangs do really encourage people to MT whore. Not that it's the primary reason, mind you, but it's just an added incentive that I happen to be immune to flash while in MT as well as getting all the good benefits of MT.

Against a flash guy I tend to never take MT/EMF off, at all.

If a player is visionwhoring, my flashbangs can't really force him to do more of that. Anyway, I only flash a person after I have shocked them, if they are in a chaff field or if they are sniping me.

"And ode to players using flashbangs:
You bitches are the root of all Evil
You used flashes
And now the mercs use MT
Because of you
Because of you
Because noone ever figured to press F1
Before you blinded them with a flashbang"

Yes, I am saying that anyone, who claims that flashbangs encourage MT whoring, is an idiot.

[Gawain]

rofl lol ;D

[frvge]

I know that when I drop a smoke, they'll snipe me with MT. I know if I don't drop smoke, they'll snipe me.

With flashbang, I counter the sniping, which gives me enough time to get to cover. They've already seen me, so I am not really bothered by the MT.

I also Flash only when I shock them or am almost sure they dont have visions on (hurray for chaff).

[Overstatement]

You can't cover every room with traps, they are limited.

But the spy doesn't know where they are. He'll have to look around all the time.

No I'm not. From the beginning I have claimed that chaff is there for quick disposal of traps, but in turn - it gives your position away to the mercs. If you don't have chaff you are either slowed down tremendously, or you are forced to take a detour. You, on the other hand, are the one who claimed that chaff shouldn't be needed in doorways and that mines should only slow spies down by forcing them to look for them. Am I wrong?
What does that have to do with you claiming that spies OMGNEED smoke and chaff? Nothing.
You take smoke because it fits your (aggro) playstyle.
You take chaff because you want to neuter the merc's ability to slow you down with traps and mines.

Yeah, I'm saying chaff should be used as a quick way to disable traps. But I disagree on needing chaff to completely enable a passage (everyone mines the exits of hall in clubhouse and you can't get it without chaff). I'm saying spies need choice, bring chaff if you want it for quick removal, bring something else if you think that slot could be used for something more useful.

I don't aggro, I usually run away from mercs. Smoke make lets mercs waste time to turn on MT (btw if you blink in 0.03 seconds, you should be able to blink 33 times per second if you try), shoot at a box on the screen rather than a figure, prevents them from chasing and maybe waste a nade. Much better than a flash which wastes a second going back to snipe mode and an after image which doesn't distract most snipers.

If you don't take smoke, you have to rely on cover. There is plenty of it around the maps.
If you don't take chaff you'd better have snares in that slot, because you will be walking around a lot.

I rely on cover (stuff that block your mine of sight with the merc, not counting vents) even with smoke. But cover is often too low, not in the direction of that vent you want to retreat to and filled with places to put traps.

Why would no chaff cause you to walk more?

If a player is visionwhoring, my flashbangs can't really force him to do more of that. Anyway, I only flash a person after I have shocked them, if they are in a chaff field or if they are sniping me.

"And ode to players using flashbangs:
You bitches are the root of all Evil
You used flashes
And now the mercs use MT
Because of you
Because of you
Because noone ever figured to press F1
Before you blinded them with a flashbang"

Yes, I am saying that anyone, who claims that flashbangs encourage MT whoring, is an idiot.

I'm not going to argue this because my original comment was not intened to be take seriously.

[Valserp]

Yeah, I'm saying chaff should be used as a quick way to disable traps. But I disagree on needing chaff to completely enable a passage (everyone mines the exits of hall in clubhouse and you can't get it without chaff).

So you disagree on mines being able to completely block out a passage aswell? Then why would one need mines in the first place?(especially laser mines, poinson mines and spytraps). That's right, anything with a laser becomes useless once you decide to NOT use it on doorways.

[frvge]

For fierce battles, take it to sclamers (button lower left part of the footer).

The detailed ins and outs of gadgets dont seem to be relevant on the gameplay for ProjectStealth in general.

Detailed analysis will be done, but not at the current time.

[Overstatement]

For fierce battles, take it to sclamers (button lower left part of the footer).

The detailed ins and outs of gadgets dont seem to be relevant on the gameplay for ProjectStealth in general.

Detailed analysis will be done, but not at the current time.

Noooo, we're down to one point. It's almost over.

So you disagree on mines being able to completely block out a passage aswell? Then why would one need mines in the first place?(especially laser mines, poinson mines and spytraps). That's right, anything with a laser becomes useless once you decide to NOT use it on doorways.

Laser stuff are to get rid of the noise that proxy stuff make. So instead of passively hearing a mine, the spy would need to actively press f2 to see it. And put laser stuff in all the doorways you'd like (that's what the lasers are for), just don't make it impossible, at the steepest angle to the doorway, for me to shoot it off with my gun or roll over it with Q.

[Valserp]

So why the hell would I waste a laser mine on a dooway if the spy can just ROLL over it?
That's right, I wouldn't. I would either hope that the spy doesn't have chaff, or depend on the fact that the spy would reveal themselves when they chaff the doorway. That's pretty much how the game works and noone seems to have a problem with it, except for honorable people who have stopped playing 2 years ago.

[Overstatement]

You would rely on placing your mines in good and not overused positions so that the spy never knows that the mine was there. If a spy could see it, they should be able to defuse it.

For playing CT, I don't have a problem with it. For designing a new game and making it more strategic, I would remove it for my original reason that spies would depend more on gadgets.

[InvisibleMan999]

Yes, I am saying that anyone, who claims that flashbangs encourage MT whoring, is an idiot.

Any advantage you hand out to people who use MT over people who use standard vision encourages them to keep on MT. That's basic deductive reasoning, and anybody who doesn't get that is an idiot.

It's much easier to just drop a flash with a quick key than it is to shock the merc and then flash him. While you're trying to shock the merc, he's probably shooting you. Play against a good sniper and you could be taken out with a quick head shot while you're trying to get a shot off on the merc. Compared to a flashbang that you can just drop while running away, It's pretty obvious which is easier to pull off in a game.

[Valserp]

You would rely on placing your mines in good and not overused positions so that the spy never knows that the mine was there. If a spy could see it, they should be able to defuse it.

It's only logical that a spy would turn on heat vision before passing through every doorway there is. This means that every doorway would be treated as an overused position.
If I waste a slot for spytraps and sacrifice my backpack, I would want that to mean something. It does in CT - for the 47th time, it either slows a spy down, forces them to take a detour or forces them to reveal their position by chaffing my trap.
If in that new and "more strategic game" he is able to remove my trap(the trap that I have wasted an equipment slot for) without sacrificing any of his own equipment, would you call that balanced?
Furthermore, once the spy has taken their detour they can easily remove or shoot out the trap from the other side so that it doesn't block their(or their teammate's) passage when they respawn. Sure, I can replace it if I'm not busy chasing someone but it's still -1 trap.

Yes, I am saying that anyone, who claims that flashbangs encourage MT whoring, is an idiot.

Any advantage you hand out to people who use MT over people who use standard vision encourages them to keep on MT. That's basic deductive reasoning, and anybody who doesn't get that is an idiot.

Boohoo.
People started using MT because it can detect a fly farting a mile away and it gives them nightvision on top of that. Noone cares about flashbangs. Go ahead and ask the next MT whore you see online:
"Hey, honest question - what's the primary reason you have MT on all the time?".
I am willing to bet that noone will ever answer "because you have flashbangs".

Basic... deductive... reasoning...

[Gawain]

the sad truth is that smoke > flash in scct :-\
and mines or spytraps don't delay a good spy much, but the other eq like tazer, flares etc is just so ridiculous weak that mines are your best choice -.-

[Overstatement]

It's only logical that a spy would turn on heat vision before passing through every doorway there is. This means that every doorway would be treated as an overused position.

No way. There are lots of doorways and too few traps in a game. According to your logic, every spy would check narrow corridors for proxys, narrow corriders with hidden places for lasers, just about everywhere for poisons and any other positions that would logically have a trap. You would never get a kill with traps.

If I waste a slot for spytraps and sacrifice my backpack, I would want that to mean something. It does in CT - for the 47th time, it either slows a spy down, forces them to take a detour or forces them to reveal their position by chaffing my trap.

For the 47th response, I agree with the first and last points (blowing up mines also gives away positions) so stop bringing those up.

Bringing mines would mean something. How much it means depends on how you use them. The efficiency of every merc equipment is based on the effectivness of how you use them. You don't get a kill with every nade, you don't spot a spy with every camnet camera, you don't shock a spy with every taze but it does depend on how good you use them. Therefore, place a mine in a good place, get kills just like launch a nade in a good place will also get you kills. Bad usage brings nothing so why would you expect mines to ALWAYS do one of the three things you listed?

If in that new and "more strategic game" he is able to remove my trap(the trap that I have wasted an equipment slot for) without sacrificing any of his own equipment, would you call that balanced?

There are lots of ways to remove traps without using a spy's equipment that you don't have a problem with (see: your next point). Apparently, you think the spy has to earn it. Shouldn't the simple act of spotting (whether through vigilance or bad mine placement) the mine be enough? This is a game of intelligence (the information kind, not referring to the brain kind).

Furthermore, once the spy has taken their detour they can easily remove or shoot out the trap from the other side so that it doesn't block their(or their teammate's) passage when they respawn. Sure, I can replace it if I'm not busy chasing someone but it's still -1 trap.

It doesn't have to be invincible to be overpowered.

[Valserp]

It's only logical that a spy would turn on heat vision before passing through every doorway there is. This means that every doorway would be treated as an overused position.

No way. There are lots of doorways and too few traps in a game. According to your logic, every spy would check narrow corridors for proxys, narrow corriders with hidden places for lasers, just about everywhere for poisons and any other positions that would logically have a trap. You would never get a kill with traps.

Uh yes, when was the last time you played vs good spies? They very rarely die from traps, most oftenly if you chase them into the mine and they don't have time to react. Most of the time it just forces them to reveal their location while trying to counter them.

If I waste a slot for spytraps and sacrifice my backpack, I would want that to mean something. It does in CT - for the 47th time, it either slows a spy down, forces them to take a detour or forces them to reveal their position by chaffing my trap.

For the 47th response, I agree with the first and last points (blowing up mines also gives away positions) so stop bringing those up.

Bringing mines would mean something. How much it means depends on how you use them. The efficiency of every merc equipment is based on the effectivness of how you use them. You don't get a kill with every nade, you don't spot a spy with every camnet camera, you don't shock a spy with every taze but it does depend on how good you use them. Therefore, place a mine in a good place, get kills just like launch a nade in a good place will also get you kills. Bad usage brings nothing so why would you expect mines to ALWAYS do one of the three things you listed?

And what are you arguing here anyway? That placing mines in doorways is bad usage?

If in that new and "more strategic game" he is able to remove my trap(the trap that I have wasted an equipment slot for) without sacrificing any of his own equipment, would you call that balanced?

There are lots of ways to remove traps without using a spy's equipment that you don't have a problem with (see: your next point). Apparently, you think the spy has to earn it. Shouldn't the simple act of spotting (whether through vigilance or bad mine placement) the mine be enough? This is a game of intelligence (the information kind, not referring to the brain kind).

Duh! If the spy didn't bring chaff, they should expect that they wouldn't be able to freeroam about the map. Yes, they should deserve the oppurtunity to remove a mine then and no, spotting the trap is not even barely enough. Pfffff, if all a spy needed to do is spot the damn things, they would be extremely useless. (good)Spies constantly check around with Thermal and no, it doesn't take time at all.

Furthermore, once the spy has taken their detour they can easily remove or shoot out the trap from the other side so that it doesn't block their(or their teammate's) passage when they respawn. Sure, I can replace it if I'm not busy chasing someone but it's still -1 trap.

It doesn't have to be invincible to be overpowered.

It doesn't have to be overpowered if you die to it a lot.

the sad truth is that smoke > flash in scct :-\

No it's not. It's opinion-based. I prefer flash over smoke. There you go. Spies have a choice.