Visual feedback on HUD

[Cronky]

Since this is the only one that was addressed to me...

Cronky, yes people have to stop playing the game to read a manual, but they also won't be playing online while they go through a tutorial.

Yes, either way you go about this the player isn't playing the game online. One just tells the person to Stop playing the game, and one Deviates them from the actual content.

My point was that a Manual by itself isn't preferred. Each one has their own strengths when it comes to what they will tell.

Manual - Good for statistics and descriptions

Tutorial - Good for Practice and usability

Plus people prefer different things. You obviously prefer reading a Manual. I, playing a tutorial. Again, each is optional and I assume the PS Devs know what kind of "Newbie" prompts to avoid. (ex. Visit this map)

How about having an awesomely done qick-time-event that shows all of the moves in the actual animation in the aproptiate situation.
Would take up a minute or two, nothing more, and would be at least amusing if done right.

Ooooooh man. Each button press being the appropriate button in game (Spy is going to jump, you have to press Shift ...or space ...whatever the button was)!

Talk about Fast Tracking the learning process! THIS COULD WORK! :P

[Farley4Fan]

I don't hate warning labels, but I do hate excessive warnings, especially about obvious shit. There is a big difference.

Warnings are not specifically tailored to every specific person.  The warning label didn't walk up to you and say "Hey, bet you aren't smart enough to know what I know!"

Warnings and notifications are for the people who aren't smart enough.  So ignore them and be on your merry way.

Ironically though, the people that warnings are designed for are usually not even smart enough to notice the warning in the first place. 

You know the "no running" signs around swimming pools?  Or the "no diving" signs around the kiddie pools?  You may say "man, those things are insulting and redundant" until an idiot dives head first into a 3 year old standing in the kiddie pool. 

I don't think a friendly reminder (with a smiley face) that says "newcomers may want to check out the tutorial" would/should/could be offensive to anyone!  Shake it off, no one is calling you in particular stupid, Spek.

[VaNilla]

There is harm in including a tutorial in two ways:

1) If it's forced upon me and wastes my time, like the SCCT tutorial and incessant "hey, you've never played this map. Maybe you should use the visit a map function!" every time the game is reinstalled or patched.

That doesn't make including a tutorial a bad thing, that's an issue with the presentation of the game. You wouldn't say that including gameplay is harmful because some games have bad gameplay... the same applies here.

2) If it detracts from other real content, ie the game has 2 maps and a tutorial vs. 3 maps. This is particularly detrimental if the tutorial has no real value, which most don't since they're usually geared toward people who have apparently never played a single video game in their lives.

How can a tutorial detract from other content? I would say it allows the other content to be further enjoyed, as tutorials help players to get the most out of the gameplay ;). Again, you come back to the quality of particular tutorials... that doesn't make tutorials a bad thing, these are just problems of particular games. A tutorial is 'real' content.

Also, people say reading a manual is boring...well, spending 3x that amount of time to play through a tutorial is even more boring. If you have a way to make stupid shit like "press shift to jump"...*player presses shift*..."great, now press c to crouch..." fun and interesting, I'd love to hear it. Good thing we have that announcer, too, cuz the poor guys playing the game couldn't have started a map and figured that out on their own in half the time.

That would be boring, but luckily for us tutorials don't usually serve to teach players the controls, they primarily teach the player how to play the game; there's a difference. As many games have proven, the controls can easily be shown during the loading screens before a game begins. Also, an announcer is usually more interesting than a block of text, I find.

Stating examples of bad tutorials does not make tutorials a bad thing.

[Spark Mandriller]

How can a tutorial detract from other content?

Do you need an anime girl telling you that people who are working on tutorials aren't working on things other than tutorials?

[Farley4Fan]

How can a tutorial detract from other content?

Do you need an anime girl telling you that people who are working on tutorials aren't working on things other than tutorials?

Isn't a tutorial the last thing you make for a game? 

[Cronky]

How can a tutorial detract from other content?

Do you need an anime girl telling you that people who are working on tutorials aren't working on things other than tutorials?

Isn't a tutorial the last thing you make for a game? 

Can't you use Rocket's line for pretty much anything being done?

If you're working on Anything... then you aren't working on anything else.

Unless you are...

...In which case...

...This is hurting my brain.

[Farley4Fan]

Yeah if comicserg is making all the merc animations then he's not making the spy animations in which case the game will take too long to make wahhh wahh

[Cronky]

You know, that response alone made me laugh, but that picture really took it to another level.

Laughing in the middle of a room full of people = a room full of weird looks. YOU'RE RUINING MY INTERNET BROWSING SECRECY WHILE AT WORK! Couple more of those responses and the jigs up.

;)

[Spekkio]

Yeah if comicserg is making all the merc animations then he's not making the spy animations in which case the game will take too long to make wahhh wahh

At least merc animations are actually useful.

[Cronky]

At least merc animations are actually useful.

...Hrmm...

Funny. Tutorials are also useful. You just fail to see why, or if you do understand why... then you just like to bitch and moan about how it's apparently going to prolong the development of the game to some unimaginable point in time.

Farley brought up a good point, You don't make the tutorial till after the game is done. The game CAN be released without a tutorial, but one should be expected to be put in. Same could be said about the Manual you'd rather have.

[Spark Mandriller]

If you're working on Anything... then you aren't working on anything else.

See, you can work these things out on your own! You don't need an icon to tell you that darkness is dark at all!

Your next mission is to work out how capital letters are used.

[Cronky]

If you're working on Anything... then you aren't working on anything else.

See, you can work these things out on your own! You don't need an icon to tell you that darkness is dark at all!

Your next mission is to work out how capital letters are used.

What? I Don't Get What You Mean?

[Farley4Fan]

If you're working on Anything... then you aren't working on anything else.

See, you can work these things out on your own! You don't need an icon to tell you that darkness is dark at all!

Your next mission is to work out how capital letters are used.

[VaNilla]

At least merc animations are actually useful.

After all the feedback you've had on your argument, this is a pretty ignorant point to make.

[Gawain]

maybe going wild on the tutorial isn't really the way to go. considering the target group are players that think for themselfes and have fun exploring new stuff, it might be a good idea just to cover the basic svm mechanics.
less can be more, especially when dev time is such a rare ressource like with ps.