Idea about MT

[Gawain]

I can certainly agree with that, though I've always believed that MT should be able to lock onto only a running spy that's behind you, that would prevent aggro, while not screwing over stealth people.

If that's possible to program in, I'd be all for it.

Also, the maps where MT whoring is most of a pain are ones with wide open rooms where you have to try to move from cover-to-cover

You kinda confuse me... I's a bad idea to take away all usefull functions that are balanced + the functions that are not balanced. The aim should be, that a good player can't overuse one vision mode and has to rely on all of them. Imo all we shoud change are the inverted shadows, add some static noise, and allow spies farer away to move more quickly without being detected (or extend the detection time for larger distances so that small spaces between cover can be passed more quickly). But plz don't overdo this. If there would be a slow climb move + pitch black shadows/no inversion, it would cripple mt enough to balance it for maps like deftech (and no, the map itself wouldn't be balanced without further changes like the ones on spekkio's fix list).

[InvisibleMan999]

The aim should be, that a good player can't overuse one vision mode and has to rely on all of them.

Well, the hard part is determining what MT's role is. MT right now performs the following functions:

-It acts as an anti-aggro vision, granting flashbang immunity, and the ability to track spies through smoke or detect an oncoming spy behind you.
-It acts as an excellent night vision in dark conditions granting shadow inversion.
-It acts as a way of detecting moving spies.

The real question is: When should we be using MT and what situations should we be using normal vision in?

To balance things out, normal vision needs to be better than MT at doing certain things.

It also seems that normal vision should be the main vision people should be using, since most of your graphics are present in normal vision, it's the screen people want to be looking at for the majority of the game, not the ugly MT vision.

[Spekkio]

The aim should be, that a good player can't overuse one vision mode and has to rely on all of them.

They already do.

To balance things out, normal vision needs to be better than MT at doing certain things.

Those things should be seeing in the distance and sound detection. The more I think about it, the more I like yours (or whoever said it) idea that the sound reticle shouldn't work in MT, but keep the 360 detection radius.

[frvge]

If I take the MT a bit further, what about the following changes (some are already proposed):

- Humming sound -> harder to hear
- Loss of ALL HUD functions. 'Yeah, it uses all of our power'-excuse. Even amount of bullets, and if you hit someone or not. Only thing that functions is the crosshair.
- Some visual (!) notification to the Spies that the Merc is in MT.

[Overstatement]

I think MT should be good for only one thing, detecting motion and making it extremely hard to see stationary spies. I don't see how limiting the detection field will help aggro, no one's explained it to me yet.

And if you're going to try to fix a problem, fix the problem! Don't add new stuff to balance it out...For example, MT is too powerful with nightvision? Change the shaders to undo that, don't take away the sound thing to balance it out... EAX + MT make camping mercs? Remove or dull EAX, don't add noise to balance it out...

[frvge]

The humming in PT worked ok.

[InvisibleMan999]

Also how do you guys feel about an indicator for the spy that tells him he's been picked up by MT. Some kind of "there's a box around you, run like hell" alarm or something. It's not exactly realistic, but it would weaken MT some.

[Lurch]

Also how do you guys feel about an indicator for the spy that tells him he's been picked up by MT. Some kind of "there's a box around you, run like hell" alarm or something. It's not exactly realistic, but it would weaken MT some.

That's up to the spy to figure out.

[InvisibleMan999]

Those things should be seeing in the distance and sound detection. The more I think about it, the more I like yours (or whoever said it) idea that the sound reticle shouldn't work in MT, but keep the 360 detection radius.

Do we actually want MT to be the vision that sees into shadows, or would we prefer the flashlight do that?

[Gawain]

Dudes, i got THE idea: let the motion view detect motion. sounds simple, but should work out perfectly, so that no other fixes besides the shadow inversion should be needed. it should set of when a rat is running around, birds scare up, wind is going through leaves or a courtain, a light is jittering etc. there are endless possibilities. the huge advantage is that each sector of a map can be balanced separately for mt. maybe the mercs can shoot the rats and the broken lights (would result in more shadows), close a shutter etc to make mt more reliable. it could also be funny if the spies get 5 rats as a new equipment, they could blow up mines, distract the mercs etc
i know i read a similar idea somewhere before, but imo it's the best solution. discuss. ;D

btw: im serious about this

[Overstatement]

That would completely screw MT's ability to counter aggro.

[Gawain]

That would completely screw MT's ability to counter aggro.

why that?

[Overstatement]

Well, when you're in smoke and you're looking around for boxes, you don't have the time to determine if it's a spy running towards you or something else. When you're being aggro'd, everything is a split second decision and since you don't have time (or it's impossible to tell), just looking at it (stopping your mouse) gives the a good chance for a spy to grab you.

[Gawain]

well, that would only happen if its completely overdone. in most areas, a rat should be tripping mt say every 5 to 30 seconds, and the box of a small object like a rat far away could be quite small or somewhat and easy to distinguish from an aggroing spy. but it would be quite annyoing for a camping spy with mt, because he has to turn his head in order to check what set off mt ;)
there could also be aggro zones and non-aggro zones this way. btw, aggro is quite balanced, don't complain about it all the time.

[InvisibleMan999]

Dudes, i got THE idea: let the motion view detect motion. sounds simple, but should work out perfectly, so that no other fixes besides the shadow inversion should be needed. it should set of when a rat is running around, birds scare up, wind is going through leaves or a courtain, a light is jittering etc. there are endless possibilities. the huge advantage is that each sector of a map can be balanced separately for mt. maybe the mercs can shoot the rats and the broken lights (would result in more shadows), close a shutter etc to make mt more reliable. it could also be funny if the spies get 5 rats as a new equipment, they could blow up mines, distract the mercs etc
i know i read a similar idea somewhere before, but imo it's the best solution. discuss. ;D

It's too elaborate and map dependent. I'd rather just have a fix that works in all maps, rather than relying on map designers to put in rats and moving shutters. That's a lot of extra coding to program in the motion of rats and things.

Also, while this change will certainly make you more paranoid, it's not really going to change balance that much, except against aggro. Most of the time, you've still got time to check your back then snap around to the front when you realize it was a rat, except when you're running through smoke fighting an aggro spy. Really the change amounts to discouraging MT whoring by annoying the hell out of the merc using it.