Idea about MT

[scope2005]

At first I thought the same. But at the same when I was thinking it I was playing against an insane aggro team. After the game finished, I thought to myself "thank the Splinter Cell-God for MT's detection radius".
Sure, it's a bitch on stealthy spies, but it's a necessity against aggro spies. What it needs is a slight nerf to encourage stealth, but not too much - for it can make aggro too powerful.

No it wouldn't because running always triggers MT. regardless of distance or merc orientation. I'm just saying that you should be able to fast crouch when at medium range and behind the merc, or while at long range in front of the merc. If you do a standing run at any distance, you get picked up. Period. Aggro players will get detected easy on MT.

I'm not sure why this sounds so uber to everyone. I mean, it's not like a spy can't also be detected with normal vision and flashlight. Yes, this change will require people use their flashlights more often. It will require mercs to actually search for the spy instead of just waiting for their MT box to go off. Yes, you are going to need to turn MT *off* now and then. That's a good thing. 

This change doesn't make it more difficult to hold off aggro spies either.

Note: Also, you can always depend on cover and vents to avoid detection. "But I want to move from cover to cover" you say? "The merc just stands there with MT on!". Well, wait for him to turn his back, shock him and move away. You play stealthy, right? Surely you know how to get out of sight in 3 seconds.

Stealth isn't giving away your position by shocking the merc.

Most of the time, this will get you killed. the instant you draw your gun for the head shot, his sound detector pings and he does a 180. He doesn't see you moving so he switches to EMF. Even if you succeed on the head shot (which is tough against a moving merc at medium range), he still likely has a fix on your position and has a good idea where you're going to run to. Even if you do pull it off, the merc now knows that you're in that room somewhere. Likely he even has a good guess of which part of the room. I don't mind spies shooting me when I'm the merc. If they want to do my job for me and give themselves away, then great.

Also, if the only counter to MT is shooting the merc and getting him out of it, then MT really is the uber vision.

Agreed.

Mercs should not be able to detect crouched running spies BEHIND them AT ANY DISTANCE though.

[Gawain]

we should give the SS full auto aim, so that the spy always hits first

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

Yeah, that would make sense, but only if there was auto-aim for the first shot, because otherways, the spies would just run around and shock teh emrcs

[Gawain]

u didnt get it, did u oO

[Overstatement]

Wouldn't this be abused like how sometimes when I charge, the autoaim tells me there is a spy near by? Wouldn't this make shooting a merc in the head, trivial? Why do we autoaim? That was a pretty random suggestion.

[Gawain]

not on the head, but on the body. and the spies should know that there is a merc if they wanna taze him lol

[Overstatement]

I've never really seen a spy have too much trouble shooting a merc, I mean you get like 6 shots. It would be really annoying for a spy to shoot you and your buddy and still have the energy to go into camo a second later. What if the spy wants to shoot the head, what if he wants to shoot a boom boom on the map, what if he wants to deploy some kind of equipment. I think it's just a useless (and random) idea.

[InvisibleMan999]

we should give the SS full auto aim, so that the spy always hits first

Auto hit the merc, um no... that'd be way too broken.

You could maybe make it so drawing the gun with laser sight no longer pings the sound detector, but that's about it. Even that change is not something I'd be enthusiastic about.

Really, I think the shocker gun is fine. If we are thinking about buffing it because MT is a problem, we're better off just nerfing MT.

And keep in mind that even if we nerf MT so hard that it's just good as anti-aggro vision, we won't impact the gameplay all that much. I mean imagine if you couldn't motion whore, at all. Does this make it impossible to beat a stealth team?

Are stealth spies going to walk all over us if we're allowed to motion whore? Really, I think MT has made us far too complacent and we're too used to relying on it to find spies and do our own work for us.

[Spekkio]

we should give the SS full auto aim, so that the spy always hits first

What if you don't want to shoot at the merc? In any event, the first shot auto-aims as is. If you're missing it's because you either moved the mouse or have high ping.

Are stealth spies going to walk all over us if we're allowed to motion whore? Really, I think MT has made us far too complacent and we're too used to relying on it to find spies and do our own work for us.

Speak for yourself. Good stealth spies can get around MT, and good mercs don't MT whore.

As it's been said 5,000 times in this thread, there are ways around MT in its current state. What you're basically saying is that you don't like it so you want the game to be catered to you.

[Gawain]

the autoaim for the first shot doesn't work on moving mercs. all i want are more predictable consequences for similar situations.

[InvisibleMan999]

Speak for yourself. Good stealth spies can get around MT, and good mercs don't MT whore.

As it's been said 5,000 times in this thread, there are ways around MT in its current state. What you're basically saying is that you don't like it so you want the game to be catered to you.

The only way around MT that I've heard is shooting the merc in the head, and then making a run for it.

I've already refuted that as a good tactic, given that it's hard to get head shots against a moving merc (which is any merc who isnt' a total newb) and your gun gives off sound when you draw it. Going for these miracle head shots just isn't going to work very well. Most of the time you're going to get taken out trying that. At the very least, you compromise your position and risk blowing yourself to hell on a mine when you make your suicide run after shocking the merc.

It's a terrible tactic and sadly it's your only option against MT.

Seriously, I know this MT crap, cause I motion whore all the time... It is crazy powerful. One way or the other, it will reveal the spy's position. I love it when the spy tries to shoot me, then I just switch to EMF and blow the hell out of him.

Seems to me you want the only counter to MT to be run and gun on the merc. What if I want to sneak past him?

[Gawain]

dude, it's MOTION tracking. only on bad maps like deftech a merc can camp with mt and win. usually the merc has to patrol; if he doesn't, there are plenty ways of distracting him. so just sit still, slow crouch, distract him (teamwork, snares, etc), shoot a well placed cam or aggro him ffs.

this + stealth routes + good map (+ maybe autoaim for spies)
i hate having to quote myself -.-
you want to know the easiest stealth counter to mt whoring? just don't make quick movements in the same room as the merc is...
if the shadow inversion (and the eax camo noise bullshit) get's fixed, this will be an even more powerful counter.

[Gui Brazil]

The only way around MT that I've heard is shooting the merc in the head, and then making a run for it.

If the merc is standing at a certain place and mt whoring, there's atleast 1 or 2 ways to get to your objective that are not being covered at that particular moment. If you know the map and you're a good stealth player, you'll be able to get pass that merc. Beside, you can always get your mate to do distractions.

[Valserp]

Speak for yourself. Good stealth spies can get around MT, and good mercs don't MT whore.

As it's been said 5,000 times in this thread, there are ways around MT in its current state. What you're basically saying is that you don't like it so you want the game to be catered to you.

The only way around MT that I've heard is shooting the merc in the head, and then making a run for it.

Yeah, I didn't say "to the head", but you just refuse to get it.
This game is not designed for full stealth. There - has - to - be - interaction - between - the - teams. Therefore you are sometimes forced into shocking the merc. WOW BIG DEAL you can hide in about 47 different places by the time he gets unshocked. If you lack creativity - you die, gg.

Seems to me you want the only counter to MT to be run and gun on the merc. What if I want to sneak past him?

Sneak past his position by using another route maybe? Really, there's plenty of those(on the balanced maps ofcourse. Please, don't think Warehouse)

[Gawain]

dudes, if you don't believe me, at least listen to valserp and spekkio.

but tbh, we need better map design than most ct maps; on a good map, the mercs have to patrol or at least to use camnet/spytraps. atm on most maps the mercs can camp in 2 positions and wait for the spies to give away their location. this is not the best way for the mercs of course, but it works quite fine. the problem with open maps however is that they tend to reduce the strat to just running around in circles or hack-taze-run. i think much of the anger about mt comes from bad map design.