System requirements...

[Gui Brazil]

So nothing, I'm just stating that your opinion is purely based on the fact that you don't want/can't upgrade your computer.

I have no preference and I don't really care which one will be used, as far as it keeps going.

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

I have no preference and I don't really care which one will be used, as far as it keeps going.

Same, as long as it runs on mu PC :P

[HeroFromHyrule]

Personally, I just want what is best for the project.  Lots of very interesting points have been made for both sides of the argument, and people will really have to sit down and decide which one is better.  I do have to agree with Overstatement's .....statement about limiting the game to only people who own UT3 (and I definitely do not want some damned circle-strafers playing PS with me.  However, working with an engine like the UT3 engine, which looks extremely impressive, could really get the ball rolling first.  Open-source would take even longer to code, but has a lot of benefits that come with going that direction.

[Fitty_cent_rappa]

gah i dont have the patience to red through the whole topic...but my comp could run BF2142 perfectly idk about Quake 4 and those games and it cant run DA i already tried it...am i off the subject?

[iservealot]

a good animation system

Animations have been done roughly the same since their invention. OGRE offers hardware animation which is all I need to know.

How the hell do you do hardware animations? Is there some kind of special hardware that caluclates animations? *insert sarcasim here*
Furthermore, UE3 lets us intregrate physics with animations, to allow for the most accurate simulations. Not to mention it has a great animation blending system, which you would need to code from scratch in OGRE to be anywhere near as efficent as it is in UE3
complex shaders


Complex and inflexible. Always fun in a game where graphics affect gameplay. Between my computer knowledge and frvge's math skills, we can invent complex shaders too. If not, there is a whole internet out there we can mix and match from.

-Good, so since you guys are gonna spend so much time inventing new ways to do things and trying new methods from the internet, go try new methods to learn Unreal Script. There is a whole internet full that explains Unreal Script to you.  ;)

efficent network code and fan base are just a few of the reasons.

It's almost too efficent...it was designed for 64 players at a time. Wouldn't it suck if it cuts corners in places that doesn't matter in FPS but will in PS? When using camnet or spy cams, you might see choppy spies(or no spies at all) because they aren't technically suppose to be in your model's view of vision according to the game. If we make it our own or download one, we won't have to fear of these issues.

- it sounds like you are talking out of your ass on this one. Oh wait... I know you are. If you knew anything about how camnet or spy cams work, you'd know that the engine takes the ownership of the camera from the spy pawn (in the player controller), and creates one for the cam net/spy cam. Since UE3 uses recent hardware technology to render on screen content, it doesnt make certain dissapear etc, as the engine redners what ever is in your FOV - period. No zoning, no optimizations (unless your forcefully make things dissapear from differeneces)

Also, the whole "lag" thing becuase of too optimized code makes NO sense. You can declare what kind of replications you want for what actors in Uscript. A lot of the code in PAWN actors and PlayerControllers (player actors) is delegated to network replication, and what exactly is replicated (like if animations)

The fan base argument still makes no sense to me. 1) By using UT3 instead of OGRE, you are limiting the group from EVERYONE to EVERYONE WHO OWNS UT3. 2) I never thought limiting a stealth-action game to people whose main method of combat is circle strafing was a good idea.

When looking at engines like OGRE, you have to realize that everthing we do needs to be handeled from scratch.

What's better? 2 programmers creating something "from scratch" or NO programmers changing an undocumented and confusing game code?

-Option C, letting Frvge (one of the two current programmers) learn Uscript, instead of taking the time to learn OGRE scripts, or what ever other engine you'd want to use.
Of course, we could always see who else shows up for scripting.

I do not believe that OGRE allows for VSM (or even PCF) lighting in real time, nor do I think it offers any extrodinary animation system.

I don't know what those mean. More words less abbreviations.

-VSM and PCF are different shadowing methods that are commonly used in current generations games for lighting algorythems. Example - SCDA Versus uses a technique called BPCF to calculate shadows, which was probably chosen becuase of use with the X360

[Tal]

iservealot you seem to know a whole lot about this stuff but from what I read your not programming this so how can you argu with someone who is? (overstatement)

[iservealot]

iservealot you seem to know a whole lot about this stuff but from what I read your not programming this so how can you argu with someone who is? (overstatement)

I know the engine, overstatement does not. If I efficently understood how to script a particular language, I would gladly take the position of scriptor.

[Tal]

well you dont know how to script and if you do you obviously dont know as much as overstatement because you arent the scriptor. If overstatement is the one coding this then shouldnt he get a choice on the way he wants to do it?

[Tidenburg]

You don't need to know the way a script works to know what it does. I code simple stuff in AS, C++ and visual basic, it doesn't mean because i'm a "coder" I know how everything works in that area. Overstatement could know every script language in the world yet not know how Unreal engine works.

and yeah that camera thing you said was just bs. The players are not updated according to where the player is and normally all players are kept track of no matter where they are, if something like that for some reason was implemented then it would be based on the camera's position which is moved when you use the cam, and not the actor position. Then I may be completely incorrect, i'm talking about stuff which i've picked up from other engines and it may not necessarily apply to UR

[Tal]

but he is the scriptor isnt he? shouldnt he get the choice? if he doesnt know how to unreal engine works as you said shouldnt he have a choice to choose between a language that he does know?

[Tidenburg]

Yeah but thats changing the subject. I think our point was he was making stuff up that made it look like UR was a bad choice. Plus we will need more than one or two programmers if we want to get this done within a cerain time timeframe..................

[Tal]

and if you read what he said youll see that he talked about the fact that if you made something from scratch in open source you would have 2 programmers and if you made it in UR then youll have no programmers... read the last post he posted plz...

[Tidenburg]

It's irrelevant, im not talking about any other post but the one which he made stuff up in, you know. The one quoted, I think it was quite obvious that we weren't talking about any other parts or different posts so stop trying to change the topic more than its already been changed :D

[Tal]

a good animation system

Animations have been done roughly the same since their invention. OGRE offers hardware animation which is all I need to know.

complex shaders

Complex and inflexible. Always fun in a game where graphics affect gameplay. Between my computer knowledge and frvge's math skills, we can invent complex shaders too. If not, there is a whole internet out there we can mix and match from.

real time lighting

We've been doing realtime lighting since forever.

common compatiblilty

Huh?

efficent network code and fan base are just a few of the reasons.

It's almost too efficent...it was designed for 64 players at a time. Wouldn't it suck if it cuts corners in places that doesn't matter in FPS but will in PS? When using camnet or spy cams, you might see choppy spies(or no spies at all) because they aren't technically suppose to be in your model's view of vision according to the game. If we make it our own or download one, we won't have to fear of these issues.

The fan base argument still makes no sense to me. 1) By using UT3 instead of OGRE, you are limiting the group from EVERYONE to EVERYONE WHO OWNS UT3. 2) I never thought limiting a stealth-action game to people whose main method of combat is circle strafing was a good idea.

When looking at engines like OGRE, you have to realize that everthing we do needs to be handeled from scratch.

What's better? 2 programmers creating something "from scratch" or NO programmers changing an undocumented and confusing game code?

I do not believe that OGRE allows for VSM (or even PCF) lighting in real time, nor do I think it offers any extrodinary animation system.

I don't know what those mean. More words less abbreviations.

Ok guys, how about arguing the points I've layed down? I'm telling you the house you're buying is on fire, you're telling me how nice the kitchen is...

Ill make it simple for you.

This is the post that was quoted.

Read the bold part.

Your previous post said that we will need more than one or two programmers but isnt it better having 2 then having none at all?

[Tidenburg]

You seem to be under the illusion that we will never find any more programmers....

and was it really necessary to quote the whole post just to put one bit in bold?