New idea for Sticky Cams

[Gawain]

Gawain, one does not need to call the OP "stupid" or the poster an idiot to disagree with an idea. Simply disagree and move on. Don't provoke flaming it's not constructive in any way.

i got angry because whenever i say something sucks i get flamed. i know that reasoning why something sucks is better for the understanding, but some things are just bluntly obvious, some things can only be understood with more ingame experience, and sometimes i'm just too lazy to waste more time on stupid arguments.

[Spekkio]

I think balance is mostly a function of the map. On maps like Orphanage, Squat, or Hospital, I wouldn't be surprised if the win ratio for good teams was at or near 60/40 (in favor of the merc) that you ask for.

Having said that, changing some basic things could very well give the spies that extra push they need to balance the game. I mean, taking things from my proposed changelog:

-Forcing normal-post render on MT so that the screen is blurry (merc nerf)
-Give MT a max range and, if possible, a greater gray box delay from behind than in front (merc nerf)
-Make jumping on a merc more client-side friendly (spy buff)
-Make jumping on a merc less host-side friendly (spy nerf, but really, it's ridiculously stupid how easy it is to host jump someone)
-Remove insta-frags (merc nerf)
-Lower camo activation noise so a merc can't hear it unless he's very near a spy (spy buff)
-Chaff and smoke doesn't work through walls (spy nerf)
-Snares make a softer shooting noise like in pt (spy buff)
-Adjust grab "hitbox" to be more directly behind the merc's FOV instead of offset to his left (merc nerf)
-Remove funny punches (huge spy buff)

Really, the main 4 ways I get killed that piss me off are: insta-frags, funny punches, lag charges, and landing 2 inches next to a merc when trying to jump him, but since you're a client you don't get the axe-handle smash move. You probably can't do a thing about funny punches, but removing insta-frags and funny punches will buff spies a ton on their own. I've seriously lost games due to just one insta-frag. Now take into account that grabbing will be easier/make more sense,, as will jumping on a merc. Then take into account that MT won't be uber, and you have quite a bit of spy buffs/merc nerfs in there. The only way that spies are nerfed is when grenades don't work through walls, but that's just an idiotic mechanic in itself.

[Gawain]

my opinion about the perfect changes to mt:
-normal post render
-static noise (like in emf)
-no detection delay in front
it should be harder to discover spies in slow or no motion and better in detecting quick motion.

[Overstatement]

I don't like it when gadgets overlap in function.

[Gawain]

I don't like it when gadgets overlap in function.

short and concise  ;D

[InvisibleMan999]

Well, in the current idea, it is either a chaff-cam or a gas-cam. (per cam fired, viewing is always an option).

No. It's both a chaff cam and a gas cam until you choose which one to fire, and that's a difference, because you have to choose only one gadget to get that, not two gadgets.

Imagine if you could just take a general category "grenades", and it could be a flash, a chaff or a smoke, depending on what button you pressed. That's much more powerful than having individually selectable chaff, smoke and flash that you have to take at the equipment section, because you have more dynamic options. 

Basically everyone takes cams anyway, so with this change, you're getting chaff ability for free.

[HeroFromHyrule]

I honestly don't think that this is a bad idea.  People are bashing this idea because they say that there are hardly any mines that are not already chaffable.  However, I think people are forgetting that in PS chaff grenades will NOT go through walls, meaning you will have to make sure that the chaff is dropped in the LOS of the mine/trap.  I can definitely see usefulness in this with setting off security failures from across the map, or for placing it down to use it later to take out a camera or motion sensor.

People who say it would make cams even more overpowered should look at this: you can only use the cam for smoke or chaff.  You would (I'm assuming) still get the same amount of cams, so if you use one to chaff you would have one less to smoke.  This would add a new function, but it would not necessarily make it too overpowered (yes, I can see the possiblity of setting off security failure across the map being overpowered on some maps, but that is purely a map balance issue).  You still have to deal with the same number of cams, so you have to pick and choose what you want to use them for.

I think this is something that is at least looking into.  Maybe playtest with it a bit and see how it works.  If it isn't useful enough while playing, then take it out.  If it does prove to be too overpowered (which, mind you, people would have to adjust to the fact that you could use these to create security failures from across the map, so it could seem very overpowered at first).  I don't know, I think this idea could be fun and interesting.

[Overstatement]

Umm...when did we agree that chaff didn't go through walls? When did we suddenly abandon the goal of replicating CT gameplay?

[frvge]

That's still up for debate indeed. Will probably be decided later in the Production-stage.

[Gawain]

making chaff work through walls is completely bullshit. mines should slow down spies and especially prohibit mindless aggro.
i'd really suggest that we follow spekkio's fix list generally. i don't hink a voting will help find the best fixes, because most of the people here have way too less ingame experience. we have to make someone responsible for the changes, otherwise it will end in chaos. i think if someone has good arguments against/for a change, spekkio is reasonable enough to change his list.
cloning ct gameplay 100% with all the bs in it is mindless as we already have this game.

edit: imo there are two changes that need further discussion:
-mt
-uzi/weapons in general

[Overstatement]

Everyone has lots of ideas of how to change CT gameplay so I've always thought we should have two development threads that have different goals.

First, we have to finish a complete clone of CT and then we can start working on a "different" mod(s) that tweaks the gameplay and reuse all the art and code. It doesn't even have to be a seperate download.

And we'll also keep supporting and updating the CT clone because fixing bugs here would automatically fix bugs in the later mods. Changing values and adding minor things relatively easy to code but make a big difference because CT is one of those games where little changes have big effects.

Of course the downside is that this may split the community and probably lead to greater lobby waiting time among other things.

[Gawain]

the gameplay is strongly influenced by the many bugs, lagg and many other bad stuff in ct. i don't think it's a good idea to clone everything if we have some points that make total sense to change; especially if we had them in pt.

[AgentX_003]

I think balance is mostly a function of the map. On maps like Orphanage, Squat, or Hospital, I wouldn't be surprised if the win ratio for good teams was at or near 60/40 (in favor of the merc) that you ask for.

Having said that, changing some basic things could very well give the spies that extra push they need to balance the game. I mean, taking things from my proposed changelog:

-Forcing normal-post render on MT so that the screen is blurry (merc nerf)
-Give MT a max range and, if possible, a greater gray box delay from behind than in front (merc nerf)
-Make jumping on a merc more client-side friendly (spy buff)
-Make jumping on a merc less host-side friendly (spy nerf, but really, it's ridiculously stupid how easy it is to host jump someone)
-Remove insta-frags (merc nerf)
-Lower camo activation noise so a merc can't hear it unless he's very near a spy (spy buff)
-Chaff and smoke doesn't work through walls (spy nerf)
-Snares make a softer shooting noise like in pt (spy buff)
-Adjust grab "hitbox" to be more directly behind the merc's FOV instead of offset to his left (merc nerf)
-Remove funny punches (huge spy buff)

Really, the main 4 ways I get killed that piss me off are: insta-frags, funny punches, lag charges, and landing 2 inches next to a merc when trying to jump him, but since you're a client you don't get the axe-handle smash move. You probably can't do a thing about funny punches, but removing insta-frags and funny punches will buff spies a ton on their own. I've seriously lost games due to just one insta-frag. Now take into account that grabbing will be easier/make more sense,, as will jumping on a merc. Then take into account that MT won't be uber, and you have quite a bit of spy buffs/merc nerfs in there. The only way that spies are nerfed is when grenades don't work through walls, but that's just an idiotic mechanic in itself.

I totally agree on Spekkio's point but for god sake people read the manual. Its stated in there as an elbow not a " funny punch"

[frvge]

It's a bug. (told him the exact definition over Xfire)

[Gawain]

can you explain it to me, too? ^^