back to wall and rail camping -and other moves

[goodkebab]

What do you guys think of "back to wall" like singleplayer -so that when you approach walls you automatically do a back to wall and can then walk along the wall like that. To exit the position you need only move away from wall....so no need for  a key press to do the animations.

This could open doors in map design where you could walk through narrow gaps and along narrow ledges.


And standing on Rails?

I think we should be able to do something passable...but not rail camping.

ie: spies can stand-walk-crouch-crouch walk-jump on rails but not run more then 3-4 steps
mercs can stand or walk for 3-4 seconds before losing balance.

This allows for the much needed jumping over rails, but remove the camping tactics.

[Wanted_David]

I love that idea. It would most likely improve the spies' possibilities to infiltrate and exfiltrate the area and reduce the line of sight of the mercs. Oh, and what about the SWAT turn? The one in the singleplayer in SCPT, remember? I loved that move as well (too bad Ubi pulled the plug on that move).
Why not making this thread the official moves discussion thread? We might even create some moves of our own, huh?

EDIT: About that "balance" feature you're talking about... It's not a bad idea, but it's missing something.
Spies should be able to perform both stances (stand and crouch) and move in both slow and fast speeds while on the rails.
Now, the balance feature.
Why not do it "Prince of Persia" style? As you move further, you lose balance and lean to the left or the right, and all you have to do to is tap the key corresponding to the opposite direction to which you're leaning.
Stay tuned for the next chapter: Rolls  ;D.
Who wants the mic?

[Farley4Fan]

I would personally like it the way Goodkebab stated, except you would have to be pushing forward hard enough to actually press on the wall.  I mean I don't want it where you are slowly moving and it automatically pushes you on the wall, it should only happen when you are pushing forward hard enough ( running, walking while crouched ).  BTW it isn't on Single Player, you have to push a button to press on a wall, atleast on console maybe PC?

Rail Camping shouldn't even happen right?  I think you should round off the edges so if a merc jumps on one he would just slide off.  Not necessarily as a spy, spies should be able to walk on rails all day long imo, because of their athleticness and how nimble they are.

Moves that should be implemented in PS:

Inverted Neck Snap - Why wasn't this done before?  It would be hard to pull it off since it can only be done in a few places like in Club House.  All of the railings below the glass structure in the Zen Garden would be perfect if it were a little darker.

Swat Turn - It would be nice to have, easy to pass from one cover to another fairly quickly.

MORE PLACES TO SPLIT JUMP!!  Good lord, this would be cool but there is barely any places to do it!  And they aren't very useful where they are in the first place.  Please, design maps with more places that are useful to use this.

Humiliation moves - Those were cool in DA.  They should be better than just banging your head to a spy's head though.  I am talking hitting them with the butt of your gun then picking up their bodies and throwing them.  Maybe for spy you crack their neck then kick them to the ground or something.

Rappeling For mercs - Of course this may change the gameplay and the way you design maps, but I thought rappelling as mercenary was pretty useful in DA.

MORE PLACES TO DO COOP moves!! There weren't enough in CT, let's be honest.  Also I would like to see that move from CT CoOp where you throw one of your fellow spies.  This would knock a merc down, maybe not knocking him out, but just knocking him down for a few seconds.  And it would also help for evading security, like throwing him through a laser grid or something like that.

I would like to climb poles from all angles like DA.

I would like to be able to swing myself over a rail and grab the other side like DA.



Obviously there were a few things about DA that everyone liked and I think those few should be implemented into this.  ;D

[goodkebab]

i would also love inverted neck snap.

coop and split move are due to map designs...

humilition moves,  although cool, do not effect gameplay (usually) so cannot be a high priority.  -would you rather see a inverted neck snap,  or a new humilition move if you could only choose one?

About rail camping,  i want to add the controls for spies to easily get on rail so that they can easily get in position for a rail grab.  Right now its a bit of luck to jump on rail.

[InvisibleMan999]

What do you guys think of "back to wall" like singleplayer -so that when you approach walls you automatically do a back to wall and can then walk along the wall like that. To exit the position you need only move away from wall....so no need for  a key press to do the animations.

No, don't have it hapen automatically, worst thing you want is to be running from a merc and hit a wall that you were trying to go around and then have the game put you in back to wall mode, making you a stationary and easily hittable target. I prefer the button to do it.

About rail camping, I honestly don't even care. If mercs want to rail walk, whatever. It's kind of stupid and unrealistic, but I don't think it breaks the game, unless you're talking deathmatch, which I don't even care about.

And lets forget about humiliation moves, at least not in the first release of Project Stealth. I figure there's enough important work to be done without worrying about animating inverted neck snaps and the like which will only be used to bash newbies. Remember, we want to attract people to this game, not scare them away. And having specific newbie bash features are just going to make them not want to play. There's nothing more disheartening as merc than losing all your lives. I mean these guys are already getting their asses handed to them as spies and probably are easy as hell to sneak past. We really don't need to rub more salt in the wound. There are better things to do with coding time.

[Wanted_David]

Ok. So, I'll do a brief summary of what's being mentioned here:

-back to wall
  This move would be performed by a spy if one would go through narrow spaces.
 
-rail camping for both teams
  Good idea, specially for mercs. They'd get more vision angle, thus spotting spies in lower ground more easily.
  Balance element also included. This feature would make life a little more challenging, but it's not really a priority.

-SWAT turn
  This move has been implemented on SCPT's singleplayer (of course everyone know that!).
  It's a very quick maneuver which allows a spy to cross narrow corridors, reducing the chances of being spotted my a merc.

-Inverted neck snap
  Move implemented in SCCT's singleplayer.
  This move would allow a spy to snap a merc's neck when horizontal pipe.

-Humiliation moves
  Not a priority, but still a different animation to finish the opponents.

-Rappelling for mercs
  Move implemented in SCDA's multiplayer.
  It's a move which allows a merc to quickly descend to lower ground using a rail and a rope.

Others (level design):
-More Split-jump areas
-More COOP areas

I think that's it for now. If I missed something, I ask the mods to edit my post.

[Spekkio]

What do you guys think of "back to wall" like singleplayer -so that when you approach walls you automatically do a back to wall and can then walk along the wall like that. To exit the position you need only move away from wall....so no need for  a key press to do the animations.

Not a fan. The less automation the better. Pressing Z isn't all that difficult.

This could open doors in map design where you could walk through narrow gaps and along narrow ledges.

You could still have this; it just requires the player to press Z instead of happening automatically. Ultimately, though, such an area would be a deathtrap for spies so I would imagine they'd avoid it.

And standing on Rails?

I think we should be able to do something passable...but not rail camping.

ie: spies can stand-walk-crouch-crouch walk-jump on rails but not run more then 3-4 steps
mercs can stand or walk for 3-4 seconds before losing balance.

This allows for the much needed jumping over rails, but remove the camping tactics.

I'll be the first to agree that railcamping is gay, but I don't think it can be removed without addressing a ton of other work. it has to go both ways, and that severely limits the spy's ability to jump the merc...or are the spies able to railcamp because they have more agility? The other thing is that you'd have to modify this for much more than rails. Any area where the merc can stand on a small surface is an area where the merc cannot be grabbed. A much better fix is to ensure that that map makers don't give mercs rails to camp on with no other way to neutralize them.

Inverted neck snap would be really cool. Rapelling for mercs wouldn't.

[Wanted_David]

There might be some misunderstanding here. The back to wall goodkebab is referring to is the one implemented in SCCT's singleplayer. If you go through a narrow space, you'll automatically do it.
Of course you'll still need to press Z to perform the normal back to wall, but not this one. This one is excursively for narrow spaces.

[Spekkio]

I know what he's talking about, and it's pointless. In CT singleplayer they just streamlined it so that the user doesn't have to press a button (Q in SC1 and 2).  I think this is bad. In multiplayer, the more control a player has over his character's actions, the better.

Moreover, such spaces in maps wouldn't be very useful to have at in terms of gameplay, much like the super-tight vents in CT. I think CT wouldn't be any worse if those annoying things weren't included in the game.

[Wanted_David]

Oh ok. Then pull the plug on automatic back to wall for narrow spaces. Made it so you need to press a key.
This maneuver needs a new name, don't you think? I mean, "back to wall for narrow spaces"? It takes some times to write that...lol

[Spekkio]

Um, no, it's still back to wall. The reason you don't see anyone making spaces like this in current SvM maps is because it'd be shitty for gameplay.

[Daybreak]

Isn't rail camping hard because you can't get the mercs off? While I personally think rail camping is bad form. I think limiting the imagination of a player is also just as bad.

My proposal would be to add two new animations. One for the merc, one for the spy.

A merc railcamping has an advantage, with the only down side to be knocked off on to the platform or the ground below. Instead, when a merc is knocked he slips and falls, breaking his back on the rail. Kill for the spy. The new animation would be the merc getting knocked and breaking his back on the rail.

The new animation for a spy would be from the rail grab. Instead of pulling the merc over, he pulls on the merc foot, making him slip and break his back.

This makes railcamping, still possible and annoying as hell. But comes at a price if a spy get's close enough. There was no penalty before for the merc. Now he rail camps at the cost of a life.

[Wanted_David]

Foot-grab, huh? It's a new concept. It's possible and it's a good way to raise some hell. Please make it reality.

[Spekkio]

Question is: how do you program the game to discern between a merc perched on top of a rail and a merc perched on any old platform?

I agree with Daybreak in general though -- I'd much rather see a counter to railcamping implemented, rather than just disabling the ability to walk on rails altogether.

[Wanted_David]

Answer: Geometric Event? I've "played" around in Unreal Map Editor myself...lol
For those who don't know what Geometric Event is, well, it's what enables the player to perform every interaction with ledges, ladders, poles, vertical pipes and such.
These interactions require a predefined animation, and aren't too hard to put if the map editor is ready to use the different interactions.