back to wall and rail camping -and other moves

[Daybreak]

Not only is rail camping a positional advantage, it also alows the merc to instantly repel to where you are rather than being limited by stairs. Which is why most don't like the merc repel.

Depending on level design, merc repeling may be necessary.

[Spekkio]

I'd rather keep the railwalking and not introduce rapelling. If rapelling does make it into PS, I think it'd be best if it came in the form of an actual gadget that you had to pick along with the introduction of other new gadgets.

Still, kronf said it best: the first thing to do is to copy SCCT's gameplay exactly with the glaring bugs fixed. Play it out, then tweak things slightly from there. Even though adding grabs on rails/stairs is a small change, it has the potential to really screw up balance.

As for kebab saying back to wall should exit more easily: I agree somewhat. Keep in mind that the variable camera angle might make it so that people exit back-to-wall accidentally when trying to move along the wall.

The best fix is good map-making -- don't put rails in a map where the merc can stand on them overlooking an entire room and never have to worry about being jumped on.

[InvisibleMan999]

Oh yea, cuz that railcamping merc in Station sector 2 or Deftech outer courtyard that can see everything in the damn room isn't going to see you when you walk across in front of his face.

Station sector 2? Just climb the pole to the top, and then drop in to one of the objectives.

Deftech is a merc map anyway, you're almost screwed no matter what the mercs do. I mean any strategy is broken on deftech.

Oh yea, and stealth will really work on that merc railcamping in Pirates on Aquarius when you don't have any other objectives left to do.

Really? because I thought that you only needed 3 out of 5 objectives to win?

I don't mind rail camping because it means that the merc is limited in his ability to cover the map. A merc railcamping pirates means that the fish tank is relatively open, or that maybe i can sneak into greek, or try dropping off the office disk or whatever.  And he can't stay on that rail once I start hitting other objectives. He has to move.

I know where a railcamping merc is and what direction he will respond from. So I can easily set up an ambush cam waiting for him if I want to.

I don't feel like railcamping on aqua gives you any special advantage over a merc who doesn't. Aqua is a tough map for spies, that's for sure, but I don't feel like railcamping makes any kind of difference.

[Spekkio]

Really? because I thought that you only needed 3 out of 5 objectives to win?

Pirates is at 75%, you're the last guy left, and the only other two objectives left are office disk and tank disk. The only thing between you and a win is a rail-camping merc. I wonder what wins?

Station sector 2? Just climb the pole to the top, and then drop in to one of the objectives.

Between two mercs, this is impossible to do without being seen. Unless you're talking about the pole behind the mercs, but that's only open if you get the terminal hacks.

[B1nArY_001]

Zap merc... Merc goes into convulsions and falls off the rail. Problem solved without having to run up to a merc on a rail and take a swing at his legs only to have him jump on your head. Or taze you, or just simply blast you in the face.

[frvge]

IMO, there are two options:
- have mercs fall off when they stop moving (also turn around) on a rail.
- use the knock-off sticky shocker.

Both are following the KISS way. Easy to understand, easy to use. Good effect.

[seefoo.]

oh ya...

split jump - yes plz
pre-placed cams - yes

swat turn - no plz
grab on incline - no
grab on rail - no

[Wanted_David]

Gate vault? http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WWR2lglY2yQ
It's been implemented in SCDA multi. When a spy climbs up a fence and reaches the top, he jumps off to the other side in gate vault. Love it.

[Spekkio]

IMO, there are two options:
- have mercs fall off when they stop moving (also turn around) on a rail.
- use the knock-off sticky shocker.

Both are following the KISS way. Easy to understand, easy to use. Good effect.

I like the convulsion de-railing you way, but how do you control which way the merc falls? Making it random would be bad.

[frvge]

He falls in the direction you're shooting.
If he faces north, and you hit him from the south, he'll fall north (opposite of south, doh)
If he faces south (your way), and you hit him from the south, he'll fall north (again opposite of south, doh)

So the opposite side of the way you're shooting him from.
Problem would be that he has to fall side-ways and/or diagonally. But that's fixed if he's just turned (bit like the funny punch) to the side he'll fall down to. Doesn't matter, because he's already shocked, so there's no downside for the little 'cheating' with the programming.

[B1nArY_001]

a random direction wouldn't be all that bad. It just makes the rails a that much less favorable location. It's not as if you NEED to be on the rails. By making it random, not only is it a dismount but it makes it a potentially dangerous place for a merc.

I'm not saying I'm in favor of random, just saying maybe it wouldn't be bad all things considered.

[goodkebab]

That might be the best solution....tazing will nudge the merc off the railing
  Grabbing Mercs on Rails is possible...its just easy for Mercs to avoid it.  Grabbing from 2 different elevations would make a glitchy looking animation where merc teleports to the same level of the spy. -its why you cant grab on stairs

[Spekkio]

That's why I said to make new animations for them :).

ANYTHING random in a multiplayer game is bad because it leaves the game up to chance rather than skill. Insta-frags, anyone?

Anyway, SCWorld's idea is best with falling in the direction of the shot. Honestly, the sideways thing doesn't matter -- spy shoots him sideways, he gets to stay on the rail. Spy's fault for sucking.

[goodkebab]

sometimes the simplest solution is the best and most failsafe.  Introducing a new animation for this situation might prove ugly.  Namely because this animation should apply to more then just rail camping, it should apply in all situations where spy can grab a mercs foot.

[Gawain]

IMO, there are two options:
- have mercs fall off when they stop moving (also turn around) on a rail.
- use the knock-off sticky shocker.

Both are following the KISS way. Easy to understand, easy to use. Good effect.

i like both ideas, but the first is the best as it doesn't affect any other stuff and prohibits railcamping at all.