Post Ideas for appearance of vision modes.

[Spekkio]

It's a simple case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Changing the appearance of the visions is one thing, but their function should be the same. I highly doubt Ubisoft has copyrighted "thermal" and "night vision." Just do your own artistic rendering of what those should look like (which, incidentally, is the point of this thread. Not to brainstorm about completely alternative vision modes).

[Gawain]

We could just make the teamate FOV part of the camera network system. So if they want to see what their partner sees they have to take that gadget.

good idea.

any pleas against visible cam cones in nv?

[B1nArY_001]

It's a simple case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Changing the appearance of the visions is one thing, but their function should be the same. I highly doubt Ubisoft has copyrighted "thermal" and "night vision." Just do your own artistic rendering of what those should look like (which, incidentally, is the point of this thread. Not to brainstorm about completely alternative vision modes).

Seriously... Go play CT if that's what you want. There WILL be things that you are obviously not going to like. Instead of fighting to copy an existing game (Not going to happen), give us feedback on making this our own. Dig outside the realm of your S.A.M. experience and help to incorporate new and better ideas.

[Spekkio]

Seriously... Go play CT if that's what you want.

Seriously, don't fucking touch the shit that works. Quit the bad attitude, too.  I don't even know why you're on the team with this attitude: kebab has stated multiple times that the goal of the project is to produce a true sequel to the SvM that we all know and love. Incorporating echo vision and xray vision for spies is deviating dramatically from that, especially when it's done just for the sake of being different.

How about if you want a dramtically different experience, go play double agent. Your philosophy towards this project is going to be what happens when video game movies are made: some shitty director suddenly gets all creativity happy and produces a POS because he's a talentless loser.

Putting in all these lame ideas is just going to produce another Double Agent. I don't want that, and no one else here does, either.

[frvge]

*ahum* *couch* *clears throat*

[B1nArY_001]

Seriously... Go play CT if that's what you want.

Seriously, don't fucking touch the shit that works. Quit the bad attitude, too.  I don't even know why you're on the team with this attitude: kebab has stated multiple times that the goal of the project is to produce a true sequel to the SvM that we all know and love. Incorporating echo vision and xray vision for spies is deviating dramatically from that.

How about if you want a dramtically different experience, go play double agent.

1. If I had a bad attitude I would have been removed from the team. People would have an issue with me.    None of that is the case.

2. YOU are the one who has a problem with me as I am the most vocal in disagreeing with you and you don't like it. As you are a very vocal member of the forums I have tried time and time again to point out that we don't have a choice. Things will have to be different.

3. It does not mean that the goal of capturing the style of game play has changed. It means we have to be creative in how we do it.

4. I am not trying to change the feel that you would like to retain and nothing that I am proposing is anything but brainstorming. It is not decided, it is nothing but an idea.

5. You have a problem with my ideas, state your reasons instead of saying "if it isn't broke don't fix it" over and over again. Otherwise, don't reply.

6. I'm human and I get pissy sometimes but I do a pretty goddamn good job of remaining respectful to those I disagree with. I expect the same in return.

[Spekkio]

Your quips of "go play CT then" are both derogatory and insulting. You have had a bad attitude towards me in your last 3-5 posts or so. Not towards my ideas, but towards me. Rather than adding any meaningful argument, you just say "go play CT then." Fuck off.

I do not want an exact clone of CT. Go back and read the changelog I posted a while ago. I want you, the developer teams, to take the best of CT, PT, and DA and make a great game. I do not want you to include stupid shit like X-Ray vision, Echo Vision, or Night Vision that doubles as an uber proxy detector just because people think that it might be cool. You know what I think is cool? Spies with rocket launchers. But that would completely change the game, now wouldn't it? Oh, and learn the difference between an argument and reasoning. The fact that the current spy visions work well is the reason I oppose incorporating shit from Metroid into the game. Not only that, but when playing as a spy you're supposed to feel like, oh I don't know, a spy maybe? Not some futeristic bounty hunter who likes to flash you if you beat the game in less than 2 hours.

You want reasonable suggestions? Go read the stuff I've been posted lately. The best way to expand and improve this game is going to be through level design, more intuitive controls of your characters, and new gadget implementation. It is certainly not going to be done by revamping visions entirely, giving spies some completely outlandish bullshit acrobatics, or completely overhauling everything in PT/CT. That is exactly what Double Agent did, and nobody likes the game. Don't believe me? Go login right now and tell me how many players are in the lobby. You need to add to what PT/CT has without subtracting much, if anything at all.

You want gadget ideas? I just posted in another thread a way to incorporate phospho grenades in a useful manner. You can add the grappling hook as a gadget for mercs, in addition to a medpack that allows you to heal your partner/remove spy traps on two occassions combined, which both teams would have access to. This in return for removing health regen (which I think is bogus). I think a cool way of making sure that equipment isn't imbalanced when you start expanding it is to have 5 slots in a group of 3 and 2; the 3 slots would be "kill" equipment for mercs (frags, phospho, mines, tazer, for example) and "harassment" equipment for spies (all 3 nades, sticky cams). The other two slots would be for recon/passive equipment -- stuff like spy traps, mask, hb sensor, snares, camo, etc.  This would have the added benefit of not having to balance the game around someone taking triple nade + cams + bullet/hb sensor and going balls-to-wall aggro without penalty on you. Make it so that if you wish, you can have 3 slots for recon and 2 for kill/aggro stuff if you desire, so that the equipment is more accomodating to your playstyle.

The point is that there is a lot of new stuff you can do to the game without going nuts on outlandish ideas that, quite frankly, suck.

Off the top of my head, I can think of other simple, yet useful ideas for equipment without going futuristic nuts:

Mercs:
-Sabotage sensor: makes the bomb location show up on the merc hud
-boobytrap objective: allows the merc to set a trap on objectives that will blow if the spy goes to neutralize it without checking for it. Don't ask me how the spies would defuse this device, I'm just throwing out ideas here

Spies:
-EMP jammer: let's spies silently disarm passive defenses and shut out lights

I just came up with that in like 10 seconds. It's not hard as long as you try to keep it simple and think about what would be useful in the context of SvM, not some shit that would be awesome just because you thought of it.

[goodkebab]

I am not going to bothere reading rants,  but we do have to seriously change the names and visual appearance of all gadgets.


That means EMF cannot be blue,  MT cannot be red....and Thermal  needs a different shader.

Its not about being broken,  its about being able to make it in the first place.

[Gawain]

nope, thermal does not need a different shader. it's not an idea of ubisoft, it's the same color scheme thermal pictures are usually overlayed with.

spekkio's post pwns binary's one. (i don't know why guy brazil and binary have to bitch with me and now starting to do so with spekkio)
i don't like most gadget suggestions. what i think is good for the gameplay is the gadget slot system as there are 70 possible combinations, with one more gadget it would be 126; this is really impossible to balance out. instant healing/unpoisoning/untrapping your partner is too strong (as you already have many other advantages of being together like aggro 2on1, coop move, etc), so i'd go for an extra gadget here, too.

[B1nArY_001]

You don't have to like my ideas (XRay and Echo weren't even mine) but you do need to be open to discussion, that is what these forums are for. If you feel I've somehow been asshole to you... Don't know what to tell you. Ideas are conceptualized, people discuss them, discard the elements they deem inappropriate and incorporate what works. It is not your place to tell people they have stupid ideas. You are free to disagree and explain your point of view of course. If you don't think I'm fit to be on this Dev team you are entitled to that opinion. Don't respond to my posts if you don't like them. If you do respond, respond in a constructive manner. I will do likewise. I know you're not a child and neither am I so shall we start behaving like adults?

Edit: I've read your other posts by the way. I didn't think the ideas were half bad and could think of no good reasons not to incorporate them if we choose. Thus you do not see posts in those threads in regards to them.

[Daybreak]

Wow.

I wonder what other things I can post to get a heated discusion.

What a bout a merc holomine, it's a mine that's placed on the ground that displays a merc looking at camnet. But doesn't show up in thermal view. like a decoy.

Now fight!

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

I spend 80% of my vision time in thermal.

[B1nArY_001]

nope, thermal does not need a different shader. it's not an idea of ubisoft, it's the same color scheme thermal pictures are usually overlayed with.

spekkio's post pwns binary's one. (i don't know why guy brazil and binary have to bitch with me and now starting to do so with spekkio)
i don't like most gadget suggestions. what i think is good for the gameplay is the gadget slot system as there are 70 possible combinations, with one more gadget it would be 126; this is really impossible to balance out. instant healing/unpoisoning/untrapping your partner is too strong (as you already have many other advantages of being together like aggro 2on1, coop move, etc), so i'd go for an extra gadget here, too.

As it has already been stated, yes the shader might be changed simply to create a bigger difference between this mod and it's inspiration. That doesn't mean the function has to change, just the look.

Some people may not like this (to a degree even *I* don't) but unfortunately some things will have to be changed a little and we don't have a choice. Understand that just because alternatives are being discussed does not mean those ideas are being implemented. The more ideas we see, the better. Some may be less than desirable but that does not mean there are not aspects of an idea that could be used. That being the case, no idea is a truly stupid idea.
Some may be unusable for this mod, that certainly doesn't make them stupid. I.E. The linked visions between players - neat idea in its own right but probably a balance issue could arise from implementation of this idea. Communicating is part of what makes a good team. If that aspect of the gameplay were changed it really could move things away from the style of game play we all love.

FYI - At the moment nothing is being done except to build up a pool of ideas and THEN decide how much and what will be different.

[B1nArY_001]

Wow.

I wonder what other things I can post to get a heated discusion.

What a bout a merc holomine, it's a mine that's placed on the ground that displays a merc looking at camnet. But doesn't show up in thermal view. like a decoy.

Now fight!

That would be quite funny to see actually  ;D

Sneak sneak... BOOM! Woops...   :o

[LennardF1989]

Wow.

I wonder what other things I can post to get a heated discusion.

What a bout a merc holomine, it's a mine that's placed on the ground that displays a merc looking at camnet. But doesn't show up in thermal view. like a decoy.

Now fight!

That would be quite funny to see actually  ;D

Sneak sneak... BOOM! Woops...   :o

I actually like it :P