balance commissary / beta feedback coordinator

[Gawain]

i hereby apply for above-named position.
the part i could contribute to this project is collecting the feedback from the beta testers and good ct players, compiling a bug list, making decisions what gameplay changes should be tried first, etc.
i do care much about the balance and gameplay of project stealth, and no offence, but except mr.mic and seefoo i can't find good players in the dev team. finding bugs and creating balance is a very crucial part of creating a good game which you can't just do with a forum and some polls.
i'm always open for valid arguments no matter who makes them and i think i have a pretty good understanding of the core gameplay (though ct only, played pt only for some weeks) and simply want helpt to create a gaming experience as close to a (better balanced) ct versus mode as possible.
if you don't think i'm capable of doing this job, you should really ask someone good like lediniz, spekkio, illusion, neverdown etc

[Overstatement]

No. Just for the simple fact that you do not listen to the following: PS is not only for CT pros, which makes you pretty biased.

[Gawain]

No. Just for the simple fact that you do not listen to the following: PS is not only for CT pros, which makes you pretty biased.

well, a balance commissary should be biased to balance at competitive level ;)
i may have sounded kinda elitist in some posts, but if you look closer you will see that i also recommended an extensive tutorial, a replay system etc.
it's a fact that the most important thing for long-term fun is balance at competitive level.
BUT i'm well aware that there should be no gadget/gameplay mechanic a middle skilled player can't circumvent, and probably some maps better suited for worse players.
and of course, i'd also ask new players (like hopefully some of my rl friends) what problems they have to deal with, what they don't understand, what they consider "lame" etc.

[B1nArY_001]

Nope.

[LennardF1989]

Unfortunatly, there isn't a lot to balance yet >.>

And I think we are capable enough to determine wheter something is balanced or not, we play the game as well, remember?

[Gui Brazil]

Maybe after we have a beta and people are already testing but right now it is kinda useless.

[Tidenburg]

Does balancing have its own department? I'm pretty sure that just comes naturally after the devs are playing and beta release to the public.

[Gawain]

Unfortunatly, there isn't a lot to balance yet >.>
And I think we are capable enough to determine wheter something is balanced or not, we play the game as well, remember?

well, there will be.  ;)
and no, you are not. the fact that you are on the dev team doesn't give you the ingame experience and gameplay understanding you need. heck, did you even play ct for more than 100 hours? people on the dev team should be occupied with at that time with a lot of other work anyways.

Maybe after we have a beta and people are already testing but right now it is kinda useless.

some decisions (not final, but what to try out first) can be made before going beta:
-mt
-3 or 1 weapon
-camnet
-tazer
-number of slots and gadgets (frag nades) + placable amount of gadgets (spytraps, mines)
-behaviour of incendiary and phosphorous nades
-sticky cam network feature
-ability to remove trap/heal partner
etc.
if the decision works out well, you safe a lot of development time. but in general, the main balance work begins with the beta as we already have a pretty exact master of how the game should play like which makes things way easier.

Does balancing have its own department? I'm pretty sure that just comes naturally after the devs are playing and beta release to the public.

no it doesn't come naturally. best example is star craft II, afaik blizzard is/will be working on the balance for about 1 year with the help of some professional sc1 players, and there will come a lot of patches. the reason sc1 stayed alive for 10 years is the nearly perfect balancing despite the diversity of the sides, and the fact that the top players could improve their skill for years.

btw, i would really care that as least as possible is changed, but more gadget combinations and strategies become viable at competitive level. balance is not only about balance between the two teams, but also about diversity = fun/freshness and the facility that players can improve for a long period of time.

[Cyntrox]

No offense, but it would be biased.. I hope the devs stand by their decision. You're just asking for your voice to weight heavier.

[B1nArY_001]

No.

[Gawain]

No offense, but it would be biased.. I hope the devs stand by their decision. You're just asking for your voice to weight heavier.

omg, what's wrong with a focus on medium-pro players? if there's balance at a low skill level, well that's great. but if the balance at competitive level is bad, the game will die for most vets pretty quickly.
and why on earh do you think im biased towards something anyways? it's no crime to tell console players to get to know the pc version first before telling bs. this forum is already going towards ubi style...
if you really want to have the most ingame fun based on a good community, you should help new players to become better in a shorter time, eg teaching them, videos/replays with comments, more advanced tutorials etc.

and no, i'm not asking for my voice being weight heavier, learn to read ffs. i'm asking for the voice of the more experienced players to be weight heavier, so i would be happy if another good player would do the job. it's not that i'm keen on work if someone else could do it as good/better than me.

it's really common sense that a player who spend 1000h+ at the game knows more about it than someone spending 100h on it. a "pro" is also more likely to play ps for a bigger amount of time. and if you really like ct/ps, you are likely to do so, too. so have fun at a not balanced competitive level like we have now.

No.

you already said so...

[B1nArY_001]

 ;D

[LennardF1989]

Unfortunatly, there isn't a lot to balance yet >.>
And I think we are capable enough to determine wheter something is balanced or not, we play the game as well, remember?

well, there will be.  ;)
and no, you are not. the fact that you are on the dev team doesn't give you the ingame experience and gameplay understanding you need. heck, did you even play ct for more than 100 hours? people on the dev team should be occupied with at that time with a lot of other work anyways.

I find this rather insulting...

Do I have to play some game before actually having enough experience to code a game? I mean, come on... You think the Ubisoft guys had ingame experience when they started CT?

I HAVE to play it, no matter what. When something isn't right (balance, bug, glitch whatever), I have to fix it, but seeing is believing. Besides, I always have a team backing me up when needed.

I also got plenty of time to do what I want, it's a spare time project with NO deadlines.

Oh, and to get some misery out of the world, PS IS NOT A CLONE OF CT!!!!. Think of it... this is our game and it will do what WE (PS Team) want in the first place. Yes, we discuss on ideas and ask for thoughts about our ideas now and then, but in the end, it's mainly our decision what gets in the game or not.

So to get to the point again, we are capable enough to determine wheter something is good, bad, balanced, unbalanced, whatever, and we don't need an extra guy for that. PERIOD.

Just wait for the beta and then start complaining about unbalancing... If ever needed, since we actually PLAY the game before releasing it...

Oh, and people, stop coming up with the lame ideas to get in the team... A Forum manager while we have 3 admins, and a Balancing commisary for a game that only can start a level... When you have some decent coding skills or mapping skills, then get in contact with us...

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

how about this: leave one (YES, 1 ) vision to be selectable per team. Add like 5 visions )each for detecting other traps- ways of spies etc. BALANCE IT.

[Gawain]

wrong thread kokafan

Lennard, you're really arrogant and immature. you can't correct the balance like you delete a bug or glitch, it's way more complicated and your post shows clearly that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. your coding skills have absolutely no relation to your understanding of the svm gameplay. and NO, you can't make the game you want to; the aim of this project is to CLONE the ct gameplay FIRST without the bugs, then do some balance fine tuning and maybe add some new gadgets/features. i know you the devs can't say it because of legal issues but that's the whole point. you simply want nobody to tell you what to program, but guess what: you're probably a toal n00b in ct, and you probably will be in ps for some time. it's not that you're making your own game, you have commited to project stealth ffs. unlike you, i don't want to create my game, i want to enhance the ct svm gameplay. you should really meditate on your motivation...

summed up my point is: there needs to be one dev member with much ct experience at competitive level in charge of balancing. it simply doesn't work in a democratic process with noobs voting.
what i'm not saying is that noobs should be ignored; they simply have no right to talk about balance.
i'm aware that most folks here don't respect me for whatever reason so i suggest you look for someone else.