using merc as a shield

[BEAR]

i was wondering if this would be a good idea, the spy could hold  one merc as a shield and then pull the tazzer gun out zap the other merc and break the mercs neck and run off before the other merc recovers...

[frvge]

Holding a highly trained powerful Mercenary with 1 hand/arm is kinda hard :p

[VaNilla]

If you had hold of a mercanary being able to snap his neck at any second I doubt the merc would try and get away :P.

But anyway this is a game and something I've always wanted, it would be highly useful in my opinion.

[InvisibleMan999]

What would you even use it for? holding the merc slows you down, and it's easy for the other merc to take a headhsot at you. Tazing him just means you stun him. So you'd have to break the other merc's neck and then run away anyway.

Using someone as a shield works in real life, because generally the other side doesn't want to let the hostage die. In this game, you already know that a grabbed merc is dead anyway. So you just fire away.

It's a waste of animation and coding.

[SITHDUKE]

Firing while you have the merc is not a good idea. You need to be left vulnerable so the other merc has a chance to save his teammate like spies so easily save theirs.

[Farley4Fan]

The thing is sith, that when you have your gun out you are STILL vulnerable.  It's not like as soon as you take your gun out you are this invincible shield that can't be killed by a headshot or a nade.  Aiming would be slow for spy when he has a merc in his hands.  So the spy would have to be pretty quick to aim or he would have a merc driving 15 rounds into his head.  I say yes. 

The spy's head would still be in the same position as before he drew his gun out, so if you are sniping him then you shouldn't miss and it would be much easier.  The turning/aiming for spy would be slow so he can't grab a spy then do a 90 degree turn and taze the other merc.  Maybe when the spy has his tazer out you could give the merc he grabbed a chance to escape?  Like they push a button really fast to get out of the grab?  That could be cool, then the spy would think twice about whether he has a chance to taze the other merc and still kill the merc he's got in his arms.

Sound good?

[SITHDUKE]

If the merc misses a shot or the spy shocks him first he'll get tazed, his teammate will get his neck broken, the spy will get away and there's nothing he can do about it. Meaning a merc wouldn't even try to save his teammate 2v1 against a spy he'd probably just frag the both of them because the risk of the spy tazing him and running free is too high.

[Test-Subject]

Holding a highly trained powerful Mercenary with 1 hand/arm is kinda hard :p

I think this seals the question...
however... I think that we should do something about the breaking neck(timing) animation... I mean in Ct the spy breaks the neck lets go of the merc then wait until he is half way to the ground then you can do something.

[Farley4Fan]

That's the thing:  It takes time to pull your gun out, aim at the guy, shock him, put your gun away, snap his neck, put him down ( which should be removed ).  But by the time he's done being shocked you may only have a second to get away.  You won't be gone, maybe 10 feet away.  The reason is because it takes time to put your gun away and snap his neck.  I imagine you'll have time to get maybe one roll in before he's already chasing you.  If not he'll be untazed by the middle of your roll.  See what I mean?  The reason you taze the guy is so he doesn't have an easy kill, atleast when you shock him you have a chance to get away, even though it might not be so good.

Plus, if the merc can escape when you have your gun out ( maybe you have to push a button repeatedly to get out ) then it is balanced.  A highly trained spy should atleast be able to get the merc in a hold with one arm even though the merc is trained highly too.  Spies are much more trained in hand to hand combat than mercenaries are, they only know how to charge/berserk, anyone can do that really.

Mercs CAN save their teammates, they just have to be quick about it everytime regardless of whether the spy has his gun pulled out or not.  I mean, I can probably count on both of my hands of how many times I've seen a merc saved.  When a spy has his gun pulled out you may have an even EASIER time of saving your teammate because the spy can't crack the merc's neck when he has his gun pulled out giving you a good shot at saving him.  ON TOP of all of that, spies now have a chance to escape with this feature when they have a merc grabbed.

[FlamingGimp]

You guys sound like you're trying to make the spy invincible when he decides to snap a neck.  Part of the gamble with holding onto a merc is that you're easy bait.  If the other merc can't snipe you in time he can always launch a nade and kill you both. 

This goes along with the comment I saw wanting to remove the "cool-down" animation after you snap the neck.  It's another opportunity for the other merc to get a kill if you weren't properly covered/hidden.  Against a team of good mercs you'll get fucked if you aren't properly prepared for each situation, and implementing these changes just increase a spies ability to rely on only himself, which goes against the nature of this game.

[Farley4Fan]

Well if you grab him in the middle of a fight then you are fucked.  It's like you get punished for killing your opponent, pretty stupid.  If you grab a merc then you don't ALWAYS deserve to be punished.  Example:  If you accidentally grab a merc if you were maybe trying to elbow him to distract him, why should you be punished so harshly?  What if you made an amazing grab, but since you have to let a dead merc down soo peacefully and slowly and another merc is nearby, don't you think you should reward that player and not punish him by a sure death?

What I want is to give the spy a chance to get away if he makes a grab with merc nearby, not make him invincible.  Right now it is just you get popped in the head because you can't move.  You can still get popped in the head, don't get me wrong, but if you let the spy have a chance at shocking the merc there is a chance he'll survive.  Even if he does shock a merc, he won't get very far away because he still has to put his gun away and crack the merc's neck.  That would give he spy maybe 1.5 seconds to gain some ground between him and the other merc.

As soon as you crack the guy's neck you should be free to go, just like any spy would.

[Vega]

Why is this idea even being considered by some people?  This should be an obvious "no" right off the bat.  The spy doesn't defend, he's on the offensive.  Why the hell should a spy, who already has a merc in a neck grab, have the ability to defend himself against another merc?  I feel it's redundant to continue this discussion as Gimp already mentioned reasons why, but really, some of you guys need to learn the fundamentals of the game. 

[Farley4Fan]

UH OH!  You brought the italicized words!  Now I am convinced  :D

He needs to be able to defend himself because basically, when you grab a merc, you are a punching bag for bullets.  You've got no chance really.

[Gawain]

Why is this idea even being considered by some people?  This should be an obvious "no" right off the bat.  The spy doesn't defend, he's on the offensive.  Why the hell should a spy, who already has a merc in a neck grab, have the ability to defend himself against another merc?  I feel it's redundant to continue this discussion as Gimp already mentioned reasons why, but really, some of you guys need to learn the fundamentals of the game. 

fucking qfe
2 mercs should clearly dominate 2 spies, and 1 merc should dominate 1 spy holding his mate...

[Spekkio]

Well if you grab him in the middle of a fight then you are fucked.  It's like you get punished for killing your opponent, pretty stupid.  If you grab a merc then you don't ALWAYS deserve to be punished.

You're not ALWAYS punished for grabbing a merc. You're only punished if you do so when his teammate is around. If that's the case, then use your speed to keep ahead of them both rather than going for the neck. It's as simple as that.