Variable speed vs. invariable speed

[frvge]

That's a cool idea! I like it. I don't know if it's implementable.

[Spekkio]

As a programmer, I don't see any use in more than 2 speeds ATM.

Care to elaborate? I think that Invisible and I have made a great case for including 3 or 4 speeds, and most of the people on the thread have at least acknowledged that it could be useful, even if they aren't clamoring to have it. If it's technically impossible to code, that's one thing. But to not even attempt it because you "can't see the use" of it in the face of extensive support to the contrary is something else entirely.

Like I said on the very first page, with multiple speeds, you will take eather the fastest noisiest or the fastest not noisiest, so it's way easier we set those speeds for you in just one click (eg. Middlemouse. you can ALWAYS remap).

How do you know how I'm going to play the game? This is what I did in PT because every surface behaved the same (exception: Cinema, because you could actually adjust your speed based on proximity to the motion sensors), but you guys have the opportunity to make the surfaces behave differently in PS.

It's a game of quick action, not of thinking what kind of speed you should use on the current surface. This will make mapping even more of a pain than it already is and the learning process will take much more time, since you would have to adjust speed on EVERY piece of the map. It will make the game loose all of it's fun, since you will be more busy with not being heard on the current surface than you are with the objectives.

This has me worried on multiple fronts. If you really think that SvM is a game of "quick action" instead of thinking about how to get from A to B without being detected, then PS isn't really going to go very far.

Additionally, you wouldn't have to adjust your speed on "every" surface. Most surfaces would probably end up being quiet/normal surfaces. The ones where you'd have to vary your speed would be the exception, not the norm.

Yeah this is a good point Lennard. We probably don't want to force people to micromanage their speed all the time.

That is not a good point at at all.

The only time you'd be "micro-managing" your speed is when you had the time to do so. If you need to run away, flip wheel up and run. If you need to get by a proxy or move around when a merc is very close to you, flip wheel down and disable it.

Hell, with 4 speeds you don't HAVE to micro manage the speeds at all. Since speed 1 would universally not make noise, you could just use that if you preferred. However, the tradeoff is that someone who takes the time out to micro-manage their speed will be able to move around faster. And really, that's not going to be a lot of time at all.

In closing: Hasn't everyone here played single player? Do you really think that adjusting your speed at more than 2 levels is that incredibly cumbersome? I found the speed adjustment in SP and PT multiplayer quite intuitive, and the only thing I would have liked is some sort of meter/indicator as to which speed you were at.

[Gawain]

i don't see any micro problems, it's not that there will be changing surfaces on the whole map...
if you regulate speed via the mouse weel, you can do a quick flip and run or sneak just like in ct, but there's some space in between which allows faster stealth depending on the surface and the mercs location. it's a system that allows better map balance and rewards recon and a little bit of micro, i think it's worth implementing it.
what i'm wondering about is stealthy speed-diving which allows stealth being quite fast. it should make noticebly more noise than crouching.

[LennardF1989]

@Spekkio: I think you misunderstood, with quick action I mean that it's a game of quick decisions. You can't go sit in a corner for 10 minutes to find out what the best speed would be for the current surface.

I know I'm a noob, I know I got way less experience than most users on this forum, but I stated before that you DON'T need experience in CT/PT to create PS. My most used argument is: "did Ubisoft had experience when they started PT versus?". Answer: "No!". Same goes for me.

Honestly, I don't care for standards at the moment... IMHO Everyone should just wait and see what becomes of the first beta and then tell us what should be different, instead of doing that first.

And yes, I played SP a lot, and I do like the scrolling speed, but it's something that can't be determined as useful yet. We should really have to wait untill me and the other programmers get a DEV build running.

Edit: It's not that I'm lazy, scrolling speed is as much lines of code as the switching type. I even implented it in RB.

[Gawain]

well ubi actually learned a lot from pt and took svm to a new level with ct. but you're right, the devs are noobs ingame. we can only speculate if they would have been able to make some decent patches with money from ubi or if they would have counted all the morons opinions over the pro ones like ea usually does.

[Overstatement]

Lets not all forget the WTF moment when we found out slow walking makes as much noise as running. Different speeds should ping the merc at different distances.

You can't go sit in a corner for 10 minutes to find out what the best speed would be for the current surface.

That's why you should have some kind of UI thing (sound bar) that tells you how much noise you're making.

[Spekkio]

@Spekkio: I think you misunderstood, with quick action I mean that it's a game of quick decisions. You can't go sit in a corner for 10 minutes to find out what the best speed would be for the current surface.

But it doesn't take 10 minutes. An experienced player would be able to make the decision in a half second. A newer player would probably have to rely on the sound meter (which I do think should be included, but again it's for another discussion) until he got a better feel for the game, and the programmers (ie you) can help that process by making the sound categories make some sort of realistic sense, thus making the game more intuitive.

I know I'm a noob, I know I got way less experience than most users on this forum, but I stated before that you DON'T need experience in CT/PT to create PS. My most used argument is: "did Ubisoft had experience when they started PT versus?". Answer: "No!". Same goes for me.

I didn't call you a n00b. Don't put words in my mouth, and don't put me in the same boat as Gawain, who likes to put everyone down if they disagree with him. I was concerned regarding your vision for the game as a "quick action" game, not how good you are at it. Sure, "quick action" is a part of the game, but so is taking your time and being patient waiting for the right moment to strike.

Honestly, I don't care for standards at the moment... IMHO Everyone should just wait and see what becomes of the first beta and then tell us what should be different, instead of doing that first.

Putting off the implementation would only create that much more work, as map makers would have to take this into account when building the maps.

Kebab says that map makers don't spend a lot of time on balancing their maps, and this is probably true for CT. However, the maps are going to make or break PS, since you're not porting Ubi stuff. The people who commit to actually making them had really better make sure that they are top-notch.

And yes, I played SP a lot, and I do like the scrolling speed...
Edit: It's not that I'm lazy, scrolling speed is as much lines of code as the switching type. I even implented it in RB.

If it's so easy to do, I don't understand why you're resistant to it.

what i'm wondering about is stealthy speed-diving which allows stealth being quite fast. it should make noticebly more noise than crouching.

I don't think it should make any more noise than rolling while at the fastest speed, which is pretty much what it does now. Pulling off the maneuver takes some sort of skill to time C/Q/C correctly, and even I fuck it up sometimes after playing the game for like 2 years.

[Westfall]

what i'm wondering about is stealthy speed-diving which allows stealth being quite fast. it should make noticebly more noise than crouching.

I don't think it should make any more noise than rolling while at the fastest speed, which is pretty much what it does now. Pulling off the maneuver takes some sort of skill to time C/Q/C correctly, and even I fuck it up sometimes after playing the game for like 2 years.

So sweet when you nail it though and the merc has NO clue. Only really necessary if you're in a jam.

I didn't really play PT, can I get an idea as to how the speeds worked (if there were more than two)? Use the middle mouse to alternate? What did the small icon look like at different speeds?

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

There was no icon.

[Westfall]

I think about it more and more. Variable speeds is a far better idea. Scroll to a slower speed with a certain scroll sensitivity. That would be sick.

[AgentX_003]

well to the common chaos theory Band- wagoner's  as you point out thats what you are =).. to kinda get an insight of how variable speeds are, Play doubleagent and fool around with the speed settings they are very quite similar its shocking,


SUper fast wheel up really fast up... reallly slow wheel down fast.. medium about 3  scrolls down .

[Gawain]

don't put me in the same boat as Gawain, who likes to put everyone down if they disagree with him

that's wrong. i will always consider everyone's idea, but i can't stand all the noob stuff people like papaskull or neth post. show me one example where i flamed you or another good player.

[goodkebab]

people will be playing as fast as possible,  or stealthy as possible   which is why I understand they took out multiple speeds for CT.

[Westfall]

well to the common chaos theory Band- wagoner's  as you point out thats what you are =)..

This "band-wagoner" still whoops your ass on PT maps youngin. ;)

[The Darkling]

people will be playing as fast as possible,  or stealthy as possible   which is why I understand they took out multiple speeds for CT.

And good players will play as fast as stealthily possible.  ;D