Knockout

InvisibleMan999 · December 18, 2007, 08:16:51 AM

Quote from: Papa Skull on December 18, 2007, 07:45:47 AM
I don't see what is so harmless about making a release button. You don't get a kill, he gets up quickly, and you can still be killed. There are other instances, like if a merc shoots a grenade at the ground right before you grab him, that make me sick. I'd like a release or push option. Shorter KO animation may be a bit overpowered like you say.

Mostly because I don't see any reason to make the change. Most of the so called problems you're fixing are situations you shouldn't be in, in the first place. When it's 1 spy versus 2 mercs, I seriously expect the spy to die. If he takes 1 merc with him, that's damn good.

And now you're talking about mercs shooting suicide grenades prior to grabs? What the hell man? That's a real confident strategy. You know, don't bother trying to actually stop the grab, just frag both of them...

From what you're saying, you run into a lot of trouble with mercs who:
-Travel together constantly.
-Frag the ground to suicide when a spy might grab them.

You don't need help against mercs who do that. Just go for objectives instead of necks and you'll be fine.

A change so you can KO them with a quick release isn't needed. If you just wanted to knock em out, try using sticky cams. Going for necks isn't a feasible strategy when it's one spy against 2 mercs. I do not want to make it a feasible strategy. It's a bad idea in CT, and it should remain a bad idea in PS. If people want to try something like this, then they should die.

Gawain · December 18, 2007, 12:24:42 PM

invisibleman, i agree with everything you posted in this thread and i'm glad you are here. at least one reasonable console player...

Farley4Fan · December 18, 2007, 06:01:20 PM

Yeah, and you know what invisibleman? You CAN STILL die. As I said before this wouldn't make you invincible ffs. You only have a shot at escaping.

When a merc knows he is going to be grabbed (out of gas mask, can't berserk, and in the middle of a smoke cloud with a spy around him) he'll shoot a frag at his feet. If he's fucked already he realizes that he might have a shot at a killed spy if he kills himself. I'd like a release button for that honestly. If the merc is already grabbed he doesn't deserve to kill me. I should be able to let him go, escape, and let him kill himself for making such a pussy move.

A lot of maps you can currently watch your partner from above and switch between guarding the room below. Like Aquarius or missile strike. If I get attacked by a merc, he tells his buddy I'm here, his buddy comes from above and I don't even know it, I grab the other merc, I see the sniping merc, and right when I either crack his neck OR knock him out I get my head shot off or he launches a grenade at my feet. It's fucking stupid. And I can't get away because I have to hump his corpse before I put him down.

InvisibleMan999 · December 18, 2007, 08:02:57 PM

Quote from: Papa Skull on December 18, 2007, 06:01:20 PM
A lot of maps you can currently watch your partner from above and switch between guarding the room below. Like Aquarius or missile strike. If I get attacked by a merc, he tells his buddy I'm here, his buddy comes from above and I don't even know it, I grab the other merc, I see the sniping merc, and right when I either crack his neck OR knock him out I get my head shot off or he launches a grenade at my feet. It's fucking stupid. And I can't get away because I have to hump his corpse before I put him down.

What? so his buddy is going to react in the two seconds it takes you to do a grab animation and snap the merc's neck? Seriously, if you did a stealth grab, his partner won't be able to react that fast, unless he's right there behind him waiting for you to grab. If you're running around dropping smoke and chaff on the merc and get a neck, then that's an aggro attack. Well, guess what? That's one of the drawbacks to aggro. Sometimes the merc calls in his partner and you lose if you try to solo a merc aggrostyle.

What you propose isn't a help to stealth players. It's a help to aggro.

If you stealth grab someone, he's taken by surprise and doesn't get a chance to frag the floor, and his partner doesn't have 6+ seconds to respond. You're walking along and suddenly the grab animation starts and you say "oh fuck" Then you're dead.

Gawain · December 18, 2007, 08:07:19 PM

papaskull, do you have to proove to everyone that you got no clue of this game?
-it's not possible to shoot a frag after being grabbed, and if you do right before getting grabbed (no charge left) the spy runs away and you kill yourself
-if the second merc can come to help in time, he should be rewarded with a kill. the opponents are using teamplay, and you don't. it's that simple.
-once again, if you're playing stealth you won't have to oppose two mercs unless you're playing warehouse. the only thing your ridiculous change would result in is a boost for aggro.

B1nArY_001 · December 18, 2007, 08:20:38 PM

Gawain if you know a spy is coming in for a grab then shooting a grenade at your feet works. Once the grab animation has commenced the spy can't run away, he's doomed. It's just about timing, that's all.

I used to kill Havoc and Weezer this way. One of them would always eat a charge so I would pop a grenade at my feet and immediately charge. The spy eating the charge would be killed by a combination of the charge and the grenade and the spy behind me would eat the grenade while going for the neck. They figured that one out pretty quick and quit trying to neck me so much :) If the charge missed then the spy behind me usually ate the grenade anyway and I lived.

Anyway, suicide and taking a spy or two with you isn't always lame, it can be strategic. If the spies know you will do it then they back off.

Farley4Fan · December 18, 2007, 08:53:35 PM

Quote from: Gawain on December 18, 2007, 08:07:19 PM
papaskull, do you have to proove to everyone that you got no clue of this game?
-it's not possible to shoot a frag after being grabbed

Wait, I've got no clue of this game? You can shoot a frag almost during the animation at times. You can shoot it right before you are grabbed and if he tries the grab he gets sucked into the frag and can't do shit to get away or anything. Why the hell should a merc that is beaten, who knows he is dead, be rewarded with a kill? He shouldn't, that is bullshit.

And you are right. This would be a boost to aggro. Now that I think about it I don't think any stealth boosting is going to be needed. Darker maps, more shadows, better and more useful camo, nerfed mercenary vision modes. Stealth is going to be the best choice for sure. I haven't really seen anything that would make aggro half as useful as stealth anyways.

That is why I suggested utility belt. It would help both stealth AND aggro players. Same with this, it would help aggro players most, and stealth players some also.

Gawain · December 18, 2007, 09:42:39 PM

and why do you want to help spies with a spam gadget? it's way better to help them with better map design and gadget balance.

i didn't know about the frag-while-in-grab-animations, i can't remember anyone ever used it against me.
there is pretty much bs going on with the animations, and i would call this a bug, too. climbing on something while being charged for instance is another animation related bs.

Cyntrox · December 19, 2007, 01:09:16 AM

Nade in animation may also be related to lag...

Farley4Fan · December 19, 2007, 02:06:22 AM

You guys may be right actually. I realized that one of the reason the animations take so long for me is because of frequent lag bs. Like if I grab the guy I'll start to walk in place for a number of seconds then actually grab him. I've grown quite used to it that I start to think of it being actually part of the animation, but really it is just a delay between the walking up to him part to the actual grab part. I'll assume that because lag and delay issues should be toned down a lot then the animations will be MUCH more fluid and smooth.

I hope that there isn't that little pause between every little animation. Like if I climb onto a box there is always that split second that it makes me pause. Hopefully you guys make it more smooth. Like assassin's creed is seamless although there are over 10,000 animations. I'm sure you can make it run seamless with less than 100. I want to be able to do the next move right after I finish the other one.

frvge · December 19, 2007, 03:21:19 AM

10000 animations? lol.There's a lot of blending involved to get that number I think.

Farley4Fan · December 19, 2007, 03:28:06 AM

It was said in plenty of interview that there are over 10,000 animations for Assassin's Creed. Since you guys aren't doing a parkour game it should take less than 100 animations right? It needs to be seamless, pauseless, and smooth.

Vega · December 19, 2007, 05:48:27 AM

I'm fine with making animations smooth, but we need to stop these "buff spies!!!" ideas.

B1nArY_001 · December 20, 2007, 04:03:13 AM

If they are speaking of the main character only then they are counting blends. It's bs PR stunt. They did not create 10,000 unique animations, I've played it.

Farley4Fan · December 20, 2007, 08:10:01 AM

If you take the cutscenes, most are in real time, and add all the other character animations, it should be close. Not to mention all the weapon animations, climbing animations (holy shit there is a ton of these, I see new ones everytime I play it), horse animations, falling animations, Leap of faith animations, crouching animations, killing animations ( a ton of those ), object animations, citizen animations, and the drowning animations. And I own the game. There is so much animation in that game, and it all comes together so beautifully and seamless. I'm sure you guys can do the same with much less animation.