S.M. Vs S.M.

[Farley4Fan]

(spy + merc vs spy + merc)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.  Don't shoot me.  I made this thread to save another from total hijacking.

For those of you who haven't been in this conversation or seen it yet, here's the main idea of a gametype we've been discussing. Here ---> http://www.projectstealthgame.com/index.php/topic,717.30.html

You might want to read from page 3 all the way to the end.  I noticed that we completely hijacked the thread and so I would like to move this conversation elsewhere.  And that is here.

So basically, here's the deal:

- 2 teams
- Each team has 1 spy and 1 merc
- It would be like CTF or capture the disc (same basic mode)

Those are the basics of what we've all decided on.

Here are my suggestions for it:

- Camera is closer to the back of the spy.  Spy can't turn his camera around unless he moves his whole body, sort of like DA.  This way there is a possibility of a stealth grab for one spy grabbing the other.
- Grenades work on everyone.  You have to turn your back quickly when you drop a flash or you will be blinded also.  Smoke nades have no effect on spies.  Chaff nades disable visions for everyone including spies.
- Mines would have to be changed around a bit to work for this.
- Sticky cams work on everyone, including yourself.  Unless of course the merc is wearing a mask...


There would have to be SOME kind of Close combat for spies.  Otherwise it would just be an elbow fest until the mercs come.  I was thinking about this:

You elbow the other spy, the other spy is knocked back, the other spy has a brief period of time to peform a counter attack, if that counter attack isn't timed right you can peform a spinning kick and knock their feet out from underneath them.  The downed spy would be down for 2-3 seconds and get up slowly.  Or you can run around and grab him while he is stunned if you are quick enough, and there would also be a counter move for this.  He can use his ss after 3 seconds of being up.  The spies would of course be able to grab eachother, including off of ledges.  Don't forget landing on their heads either.

Gameplay would go a little like this:

I am guessing that the merc would defend the disc/flag.  Meanwhile, the spies are either doing recon or trying to sneak and get the disc/flag.  If the spies find eachother there will most likely be a little scuffle.  Then the mercs may come and help their spies.  This would lead to a kind of battle that hasn't been experienced before in gaming history.  One FPS mercenary and a 3rd person spy battling another FPS mercenary and a 3rd person spy.

Or they could both work together and the spy could shock the other merc and and it's and easy kill for his merc.  I think that it would be pretty interesting gameplay.

Note that it isn't a fully developed idea yet.  We are still brainstorming.

This would OF COURSE be an alternate game mode, and maybe serve as a respectable replacement to disc hunt and dm.  Btw, I heard that this can all be done with mutators.  That should make it a little easier to create.

What do you guys think?  Suggestions? 

[MR.Mic]

I think it might be fun to have 2 SvM teams, for a total of 8 players each playing CTF in 2 bases where the mercs cant cross over but the spies can. The spies would play offense and the mercs would play defense.

[B1nArY_001]

If done right, it could be quite a bit of fun.

[neth]

Or they could both work together and the spy could shock the other merc and and it's and easy kill for his merc.

Thats what Im afraid of but if maps were constructed in a way Mic said, it could work.

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

Yeah, and having the option to choose wether you're spy or merc.
Mercs should also have sniper spots, so that snipers can't see eachother, but can see the enemy flag area. This would give mercs a job to do, instead of just waiting for the spies to come. It would also encourage having more than one camping merc in each team.

[excite.gg]

could be funny ;). but it isn't my point of view of a stealth game, cause there would be not enough stealthaction, but if the maps would be constructed that stealth is useful to win, it would be funny

(sorry for my english >_>)

[AgentX_003]

could be funny ;). but it isn't my point of view of a stealth game, cause there would be not enough stealthaction, but if the maps would be constructed that stealth is useful to win, it would be funny

(sorry for my english >_>)

excite-bike its ok  your english is fine :D

[InvisibleMan999]

It would suck. Basically you're playing two 1on1s at the same time and there's no teamwork.

[BurningDeath]

could be funny ;). but it isn't my point of view of a stealth game, cause there would be not enough stealthaction, but if the maps would be constructed that stealth is useful to win, it would be funny

(sorry for my english >_>)

Well, I think that mode would be rather fast paced action than stealth. Noone said that it would be stealthy. ;)

[Farley4Fan]

It would suck. Basically you're playing two 1on1s at the same time and there's no teamwork.

Wrong.  You would HAVE to use teamwork, or you would have no chance of survival.  Like 1 spy vs 1 spy + 1 merc.  Obviously, the lone spy is going to get cooked up if he tries to fight them.  And there would be stealth.  I'll explain later.

[B1nArY_001]

Someone suggested it as a sort of CTF or DM replacement. Also with more than just 4 people as Mic suggested it could be worth playing. It's not quite stealthy but that doesn't mean once Project Stealth has hit its' first release something that's just good 'ol fashioned fun couldn't be added in for a second release.

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

How about letting mercs go wherever on the map, but not let them carry flags?
Spies would need a boost then so why not remove mask and give spies 10 cams, instead of 5?
[HUGE BALANCING NEEDED]

[InvisibleMan999]

Wrong.  You would HAVE to use teamwork, or you would have no chance of survival.  Like 1 spy vs 1 spy + 1 merc.  Obviously, the lone spy is going to get cooked up if he tries to fight them.  And there would be stealth.  I'll explain later.

Well look at it this way.

You've got a line that the mercs can't cross. Therefore mercs are defense and spies are offense.

IF you pull your spy back to play defense, then you can't win. Since the spy is nonlethal, he can't even really intercept the other spy when he enters his own base to return the flag.

so the only plausible strategy is going spy on offense, merc on defense. This means that the game is really two 1on1s

[Farley4Fan]

I never wanted a line that the merc can't cross.  That's just bs imo.  I say anything goes, mercs can go anywhere, except like in the opposing spawn of course and in vents and stuff.  And plus if you've got 4 people per team, 2 mercs on defense and 2 spies on offense.  Wouldn't be 1 on 1.  It could be a 4 on 4 battle if both teams decide that they are going to infiltrate and forget defending.

The way stealth would work in this game:

-Of course the maps would be darker making it easier for spies to hide. 
-You could  give NV a limited range of about 10 meters so spies can't see eachother from across the room with NV on in the darkness.  That would kill the stealth element.  Give thermal a range of 10 meters also.
-Put the view a little closer to the spy's back so he can't tell if a spy is about to grab him or not.
-Make the camera face forward at all times.  Meaning he'd have to turn his body to look behind him.
-There would be multiple ways to infiltrate the enemy base. 

The merc reticule would still only pick up running spies, but it would pick up the sounds of a merc jumping or opening a door. 

Does anyone have a comment or opinion on my suggestion for spy vs spy combat?

[Daybreak]

I'd much rather not limit spies and mercs to certain positions. Giving them free range will most definetly be more entertaining and long lasting. The problem is balance. Perhaps having more mercs than spies is the best way to do it. Spies while roaming the map silently can be extremely useful, because during a firefight with another merc, it's easy to not notice a spy sneaking up on you. The "Chewbacca Move" now becomes even more prominent and deadly. One problem I also see with free roaming cababilities, it'd just become a shockfest. Shock a merc, then your merc partner shoots him in the face. Lame. But Look at this, Mercs in CTF have developped anti Shock armor. Spies on the other hand are fair game. Spies are speedy little buggers, if they have a flag it'd be hard for a merc to stop them from running off. A spy can easily tazer them. Not being able to shock mers would open the game up and make it more interesting, as it would become a bad idea to confront a Merc on your own.
Some might argue how does a spy get away from a merc? Team work from your merc partners. They should focus on killing. Spies do the recon and then take off with the flag.