camnet and bullets/ snares

[Spekkio]

Making a new gadget for the specific purpose of countering camnet is fucking stupid. What happens when the merc doesn't take camnet? Uh oh, you have a useless item.

Allowing the spies to shoot it out wouldn't be too bad at all. What I'm envisioning is that the merc can still select the camera, but he sees static. If you want to imagine it in current terms, let's say a spy shoots out the cam in MH in factory. Well, you know a spy was there, but you don't know exactly where he was heading. Besides, he's only got 10 seconds to get where he's gotta be ... not exactly a cakewalk. If need be, you can give a short invulnerability time to the device after it's shocked once, but I don't think that would be necessary.

Camnet against aggro spies??? That's the most bullshit theorycraft I've ever heard. You don't use camnet against aggro spies because 1) you know where they are and 2) you don't have the time.

[Gawain]

it's useless against full aggro, but good to help your mate in unclear situations. i think a better camo suit and no special visions (+ darker map layout) is sufficient. camnet balance mainly depends on the map design anyways. with a hologram device like i suggested in the glove-like gadget thread you could also trick out a camnet user or focus aggro on the one with camnet after easily identifying him.

[Cyntrox]

I've used camnet against aggro spies. You can pinpoint their exact location with the laser, it helps a lot, for example for your teammate to launch a grenade if a spy is not in his line of sight.

[Spekkio]

it's useless against full aggro, but good to help your mate in unclear situations. i think a better camo suit and no special visions (+ darker map layout) is sufficient. camnet balance mainly depends on the map design anyways. with a hologram device like i suggested in the glove-like gadget thread you could also trick out a camnet user or focus aggro on the one with camnet after easily identifying him.

Ok, so if the spies shoot out the camera in the same room as your teammate, he can't say (or type) "both here"? I seriously don't get how or why you'd be using camnet in this situation. If you've ever played the map(s) without camnet, you can certainly figure out where the spies are and where they probably are going even if they shot out the camera.

[Spekkio]

I've used camnet against aggro spies. You can pinpoint their exact location with the laser, it helps a lot, for example for your teammate to launch a grenade if a spy is not in his line of sight.

Then those aggro spies must not be very good. The whole point of aggroing is to single out and double team a merc and then scatter to a far off objective if his teammate comes to help. When you're sitting there like a tool pointing a laser at them, you're just asking for your teammate to get necked.

[Farley4Fan]

Making a new gadget for the specific purpose of countering camnet is fucking stupid. What happens when the merc doesn't take camnet? Uh oh, you have a useless item.

Allowing the spies to shoot it out wouldn't be too bad at all. What I'm envisioning is that the merc can still select the camera, but he sees static. If you want to imagine it in current terms, let's say a spy shoots out the cam in MH in factory. Well, you know a spy was there, but you don't know exactly where he was heading. Besides, he's only got 10 seconds to get where he's gotta be ... not exactly a cakewalk. If need be, you can give a short invulnerability time to the device after it's shocked once, but I don't think that would be necessary.

Camnet against aggro spies??? That's the most bullshit theorycraft I've ever heard. You don't use camnet against aggro spies because 1) you know where they are and 2) you don't have the time.

Wtf.  If you even read the post you would know it's not JUST FOR CAMNET.  It disables everything else basically.  Go read it again ffs.

[Gawain]

@papa: a jammer bullet is just stupid.
@spekkio: i'm well aware that watching your mate getting his ass kicked with camnet isn't exactly gonna be helpful. but in all those situions when your teammate isn't sure if there is one spy or both, or whenever two play aggro and your mate needs to know where one of them went it helps a lot if you spend 1 or 2 seconds gathering information before coming for help. for instance, in cafe (museum) camnet helps a lot to decide whether to come to the same side your mate is or to the other side or to better stay close to the double doors (from elevator). it also helps to see where an aggro player plants the bomb... aggro can also use snares so that it's easier to locate them with camnet.

[Farley4Fan]

@Gawain:  Why?  Elaborate
@Spekkio:  Gawain is right, it can help both mercs if just one is using it.

[neth]

let's say a spy shoots out the cam in MH in factory.

Before merc gets there and guesses where the shots were from (IF he guesses), spy will be on the other end of map, hacking the objective. This example shows how neutralizing camnet by shooting it, would make this gadget totally useless.

[Spekkio]

It takes 45 sec minimum to go from MH to an objective in the another room unless you take corridor B and the first camera is perfectly lined up for you to run through at the moment you open the door. If it takes you 45 sec to respond to a security failure, well, I don't know what to tell you then. Your example is retarded.

@Gawain: Well, this is where communication between mercs becomes important. Your partner shouldn't really have a problem taking on one spy by himself.

Besides that, let's say that the spies do split up in museum and shoot out both inner and outer cafe. Using camnet, that's a dead giveaway that they're not together, so you shouldn't have much of a problem figuring out where to cover. However, I would think that the spies simply won't have the time to do that if they're working on splitting the mercs up like that.

Seriously, you guys are acting like camnet is this omfg wtf important gadget where the mercs would be completely blind if it were disabled for 10 seconds. Considering that quite a few people don't bother with camnet and are still successful, this isn't the case at all. The fact that you'd be able to tell which camera was shot would be enough to figure out the general location of the spies most of the time.

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

Smart spytraps > camnet.

[Gawain]

i think removing special visions and boosting camo is sufficient. no need for further nerfing of camnet, especially not for more aggressive players. in fact, it would totally turn around the camnet power: atm it's quite strong in big rooms, but after this it will be strong in small rooms.

[Spekkio]

Yea, but why should you have to take a specific gadget to counter another gadget? That's stupid. With my proposal, shooting out the camera helps, but it's not the best counter because the mercs will still have a decent idea of where you are. Camo would be a better solution, but it's by no means necessary.

Like I said, camnet doesn't really play much of a factor for aggressive players. They're playing on the fact that they can get to places before the mercs can, and not the fact that you don't know where they're going. Aggro is the only counter to camnet right now because the mercs don't have the time to look through it, so I don't see how this would really affect anything in regards to aggro players. Personally, if I have camnet and find myself against an aggro team, I also find myself wishing we had double backpack for extra mines.

As far as big rooms vs. small rooms, it'd still be useful in big rooms if it can be shot out. First, we're only talking a short period of deactivation. Second, it takes much longer for a spy to navigate through a large room, so you still know where his vicinity.

You complain a lot about making mercs have to actually look for spies, and now you're against a solution that would do just that.

Aside from that, there's no reason the mercs should be able to have a gadget with infinite use that sees everything and cannot be disabled except when he decides not to look through it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the potential for imbalance there, and it makes the game exceptionally boring when a merc just stands in a corner cycling through cameras until he sees a spy.

[Westfall]

Should there be a security failure when its knocked out?

[Gawain]

spekkio is right, no specific gadget (camo) should be needed to bypass camnet. he's also right that it takes more time to cross a big room than a small one. probably the easiest solution is the best anyways. so i guess it's all about finding the right timer settings so that shooting out camnet becomes an interesting choice but not a good one in most situations.