merc confusion gadget

[Spekkio]

And Spekkio, I don't have to be a dev to predict how long something would take.  I can predict all I would like.

Sure you could, but doing so makes you look like a presumptious moron because in reality you have no clue how much work it would take.

[Ion.67]

The optic camo would be a shader (at least in source, assuming it is the same). This would have to be implemented completely different.

Mines are effective because they blow shit up. This does nothing but walk in front of a merc. While it could be an exact copy of a spy, it doesn't have any purpose other than to distract the merc, so then it really has no purpose. Snares distract the merc and mess his reticle up, which is another use.

Having this gadget be remote controlled like a car is stupid. It would make no sense, because you could get no where while you are playing cat and mouse with a merc. Having to point where you want it to go is stupid, because the merc will assume you are in the same room, and unleash mass ownage. Not really sure why you would even possibly assume these are good ideas.

What happens when you shoot this on the wall or ceiling? Does it automatically find the floor? Yet another implementations by coders. It means pretty much nothing gameplay wise, but would take more coding time.

Using this gadget would immediately tips the mercs off, because normal players run and shock the mercs when they see them. They don't keep right on walking. Also, mercs can just shoot it, see its not real, and forget about it.

My suggestion is try and think of ideas to improve snares instead of campaigning for useless and hard gadgets.

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

because normal players run and shock the mercs when they see them.

In CT. Also, why let the merc know you are there when he hasn't seen you yet??

[Cyntrox]

I'll give an example of how it'd be useful:

You're a merc camping in Pirates in Aquarius. You catch a glimpse of a spy diving towards the vent in what you guys call the blue room. You presume that the spy went into the vent, so you keep a close eye on it/shoot nades there. Since it was a hologram, it will give the spies an upper hand.

[Westfall]

Vega is wise.

And Spekkio, I don't have to be a dev to predict how long something would take.  I can predict all I would like.

Sure you could, but doing so makes you look like a presumptious moron because in reality you have no clue how much work it would take.

Its presumptuous. You shouldn't correct other people's spelling when you need to consider your own.

Vega isn't wise (though I love him). He just had an opinion. Doesn't mean it is wise by any means. Just because you agree with his statement which consists of errors...many errors, doesn't make him wise. Also, Papa doesn't look like a presumptuous moron. If he got more feedback on the idea (which isn't necessary I guess since PS is so far out) it would help to see how hard this would be to code/program/animate. Doesn't mean hes a moron. Only one I'm seeing as a moron is the bumbling moron...aka you. Everything you try and state always has this arrogant taint to it. I'm sure you don't always mean to offend, then again sometimes you do, but that is what most of your comments come off as. You're just one more person who has played the Splinter Cell series.....furthest from a god. Others have just as much experience, so because you feel that you can justify downplaying an idea because "I, Spekkio, say this gadget will not work because I said so" instead of giving anything rationally justified, yes...rationally justified, you're not helping the idea be productive into getting nixed or helping it. You're just babbling. As far as I can tell, you are being a presumptuous moron in assuming how a hologram wouldn't affect the stealth aspect of PS.

Having this gadget be remote controlled like a car is stupid. It would make no sense, because you could get no where while you are playing cat and mouse with a merc. Having to point where you want it to go is stupid, because the merc will assume you are in the same room, and unleash mass ownage. Not really sure why you would even possibly assume these are good ideas.

What happens when you shoot this on the wall or ceiling? Does it automatically find the floor? Yet another implementations by coders. It means pretty much nothing gameplay wise, but would take more coding time.

Using this gadget would immediately tips the mercs off, because normal players run and shock the mercs when they see them. They don't keep right on walking. Also, mercs can just shoot it, see its not real, and forget about it.

My suggestion is try and think of ideas to improve snares instead of campaigning for useless and hard gadgets.

The gadget wouldn't be remote controlled. It would be shot and either play the hologram or freeze the frame of which ever preset you chose. If you shoot it at a wall or ceiling it may not work. It has to be shot to a right spot, unless the devs can make it adjust automatically to wherever it was shot. Of course it will take time to code and animate. We are a long way out still from even getting a beta, so calm down. The gadget doesn't tip the merc off. If you always give away your position because you get scared when a merc is near, well....you're dead. I don't just run up and shock mercs for the hell of it. You do if you're an aggro player. If a merc shoots it and sees its not real, well...hes already off the track of the real spy, now isn't he, which means there was a diversion.

Snares already have the suggestion(s) for being better and possibly having added features. While this gadget is probably really hard to code, it would be one of the better new ideas thats implemented into PS. There are several new ideas and fixes, but this would be the best new gadget.

If the devs can't make it, then they will squash it. When they do, the thread will be dead. Doesn't mean the idea of a hologram in PS was a bad thing because so far it hasn't really gotten any negating on it aside from the fact that "people don't like it."

[Vega]

Haha, Westfall, he was just making a comment that I usually do with his posts.  When I've agreed with spekkio on a certain subject, I would quote what he said and write "speikkio is wiese" or something along those lines.  It could be pure coincidence that he wrote the same for me or he could be playing off of the situation I just gave you.

But that's besides the point.  Spekkio obviously agreed with my opinion and made a comment about it.  However, you're telling him to rationally justify his views on a proposed gadget, but then make this comment; "his statement which consists of errors...many errors."  Where's the justification in that?  If you want to summarize the thread into what all the rambling has come down to, then by all means please do so.  If you're referring to Papa's multiple ideas of how a holo pod could work, then no, I read those.  I just don't think they're good or fit PS in any way.  I read through most of this stuff and I don't see where this "if you read earlier you'd know" type of deal is coming from.  What Mic said earlier was dead-on to what I'm saying.

People won't become used to it, how you come to that conclusion is beyond me Vega.  It looks just like a spy.  EXACT.  You won't be able to tell apart a hologram from a real spy at first glance, no matter who you are, or what graphics card you have.  Yet, somehow you predict that people would just see it and know that it isn't real?
Nope, doesn't work that way Vega.

How can I come to that conclusion?  Here we go again.  I've noticed with many of your posts, you look at ideas or other's opinions the entirely wrong way.  I didn't understand before, but I do now.  This is how you think, how you operate.  You're so narrow-minded with your thinking, that you automatically take something so incredibly obvious and argue it to death.  The fact that you bring up the graphics card, the personal appearance of the spy, and reiterate that it looks "exactly like a spy" is completely redundant and annoying.  Did I mention anything about the appearance of the spy?  No, I talked about mimicking human action.  When I refer to a human, I'm obviously referring to the human playing the spy.  This is what I said:

Mimicking human action is going to be really tough, unless we record HUNDREDS of different moving patterns to make this shitty gadget more believable.  These moving patterns will have to involve lots of different animations or people will recognize a hologram too quickly and render this gadget useless.

Does it say anything like "OMG IT'S SO TEH HARD TO MAKE A COPY APPEARANCE OF A SPY!!!"  No, I talked about it being difficult to make it look like a believable moving pattern.  What's that mean?  Well, tell me Papa, when you go into a room, do you run straight in?  Not normally, a slight pattern develops and you're almost never running in a straight line -- especially if a merc is there.  What if you see a merc?  Do you taze him?  Do you roll to the left?  To the right?  Do you jerk to the side to avoid getting hit?  Do you zig-zag to avoid getting sniped?  Do you run up walls and do a back flip?  Do you climb boxes?  Do you go into vents?  Do you shoot 3 different kinds of nades, spy bullets, alarm snares, or cams?  Do you do any of the above? 

Here's my point: images running straight into an area are not human.  It's not believable.  Even with these "pre-recorded" images, the environment has to be open and with no obstructions (like boxes or poles or walls).  The pre-recorded images will be so situational that they aren't worth the gadget slot.  Of course having images run through walls and objects would be realistic, but in my opinion an entirely lame mechanic to add into the game. There are instances when a straight-line running image could cause a distraction for a second or two, but I believe these instances are few and far between.

I'll say it one more time.  It may certainly be possible to add holograms (as stupid as it is) to the game, but not in the way it's going right now. 

[Spekkio]

Its presumptuous. You shouldn't correct other people's spelling when you need to consider your own.

And you need to learn to discern between obvious typos (u is right next to the i key) and blatant misspellings. "Hippocrite" is nowhere near a typo.

I don't know what you're trying to spew out, but Papa has no business commenting on how much time it would take to code or model something when he is not a programmer or modeler.

Words that make a lot of sense...

Vega is wise :).

[Cyntrox]

Okay, so you've seen the hologram run past that doorway 2 times now. So if a spy runs past, you'll think it's a hologram?

[Spekkio]

News flash: if you have to be in the area to place the hologram, seeing the hologram is going to tip you off to the fact that a spy is around no matter what.

[Cyntrox]

The spy could have planted it from the other side of the room, then gone off to somewhere else - by the time to hologram got noticed, the spy wouldn't be there any more.

[frvge]

We're currently far from even beginning on implementing things like these, so there won't be an official point of view of the devs.

Calling eachother morons is not advisable.

[Farley4Fan]

Whoa there Vega, don't call me narrow minded because I read your post wrong.  I'm sure everyone here has done that one time or another.  If someone records their own recordings, it would be exactly like their human action.  Because well, it is actually them recording it.  The spies would just have to use their holograms strategically to be effective.  Meaning they would have to pick the right recording for the job at hand.

Ion, you overlook one very important detail.  It would have another use other than distracting mercs.  It would be a nice tool for aggro attacks as well.  Let me explain myself though, before you jump on me like a pack of ravenous wolves.  Stealth will be the more rewarding playstyle in PS correct?  Of course, it's just an assumption, but with darker maps, nerfed visions, fixed camo, no EAX, boosted tazer, stealth is going to be the best choice for playing the game.  Maybe, give the people a little more reason to play more aggressively.  And the holopod would be very useful for confusing the merc while playing aggro.

You are still not understanding that someone will never become "used to" holograms.  You can't.  They look just like real spies.  If you put a hologram right next to a real spy you couldn't tell the difference.  At first glance, the merc is going to go for the hologram.  Especially if you couple the hologram with an alarm snare so it makes noise as it's running.

How you come to the conclusion that it will be hard to make a believable moving pattern is beyond me Vega.  Especially when the people themselves are the ones who make the moving patterns.  This is where the skill and strategy comes to using holopods.  You have to have recordings that look believable in most situations and you have to plant them so they don't go through walls or anything.   And just to piss people off, you could make a recording of a spy teabagging.  Then you could kill a merc and shoot it on his body and run away.  Giving you time to hack objectives AND teabag the merc at the same time.  ;D

[Vega]

Whoa there Vega, don't call me narrow minded because I read your post wrong.  I'm sure everyone here has done that one time or another.

I'm not calling you narrow-minded because you "misread" my post.  You get set on an idea and then when someone makes a logical argument against it, you often times argue redundant and unrelated points.

How you come to the conclusion that it will be hard to make a believable moving pattern is beyond me Vega.  Especially when the people themselves are the ones who make the moving patterns.  This is where the skill and strategy comes to using holopods.  You have to have recordings that look believable in most situations and you have to plant them so they don't go through walls or anything.   And just to piss people off, you could make a recording of a spy teabagging.  Then you could kill a merc and shoot it on his body and run away.  Giving you time to hack objectives AND teabag the merc at the same time.  ;D

The recording option is probably one of the weirdest ideas conceptually to be brought up for PS.  So much pointless and odd work does not seem needed for a single gadget.  Besides it being odd to do so, adding this feature to our CT-styled game is such a lame mechanic to add that it's not even funny.  It's on par with giving our spies a teleporting device.  You could program it so you can do kicking backflips and even teleport inside boxes for hiding!  It's so cool!  Teleporters could work!  Right?!

[Ion.67]

Super goldfinger lasers would be better.

What do you guys not under stand about situational. You would need a different animation for each hallway to make the hologram look semi-real.

[Farley4Fan]

Ion, I do understand that.  That is where the strategy to recording and deploying the right hologram comes in.

@Vega:  I've provided many logical explanations why this could work.  It's not on par with that at all.  Maybe a cloning device that would deploy a cloned spy, but not a hologram of a spy, come on now.  You are just exagerrating.  I'm 100% sure that this could even fool you, Vega.  Of course, that depends on its implementation.  But if it were to be implemented properly, it could fool anyone at first glance.