i would like to have a small (50% transparent) window showing your mate's view so that you always know what hes up to. it makes communication and teamplay way easier for newcomers and solo players and it would also make it less boring when all the action is taking place somewhere else.
I'm all for making it 100% opaque and add customizable size.
If it's togglable then yes, we'll also have to see what the processing difference would be while having this on. This is alot like the stick cam thing aswell.
Quote from: Rambo on April 22, 2008, 10:35:25 PM
i would like to have a small (50% transparent) window showing your mate's view so that you always know what hes up to. it makes communication and teamplay way easier for newcomers and solo players and it would also make it less boring when all the action is taking place somewhere else.
Great idea!! <<<
Might be severly OP, but it could be useful for solo-Spies.
What do you mean by OP?
Overpowered.
And could severely slow your game down.
Didn't I suggest this a long time ago but a lot more thought out version? You fail.
Quote from: Rambo on September 11, 2007, 04:32:31 PM
good players communicate and play with friends most of the time. playing with random n00bs without communication is just dumb.
Quote from: Rambo on September 12, 2007, 01:53:12 PM
a quick communication system in bf2/2142 style is sufficient. this screenie/vid stuff is a nice to have feature, but it should be implemented carefully.
Quote from: Rambo on September 13, 2007, 07:13:16 PM
it could distract the player, overlap something important, be spammed, etc.
tbh i don't care about it much, because i got a mic and some regular mates...
Quote from: Rambo on April 22, 2008, 10:35:25 PM
it makes communication and teamplay way easier for newcomers and solo players and it would also make it less boring when all the action is taking place somewhere else.
Opinions can change...
Quote from: LennardF1989 on April 22, 2008, 11:49:04 PM
Opinions can change...
And what do you now think about this idea?
This could hurt performance and gameplay. But if those both check out I think it would be pretty cool.
Cool idea, I'm sure our awesome devs can make it work without hurting performance too much, and we could always have it disabled on low vid settings
Quote from: Overstatement on April 22, 2008, 11:39:26 PM
Didn't I suggest this a long time ago but a lot more thought out version? You fail.
Quote from: Rambo on September 11, 2007, 04:32:31 PM
good players communicate and play with friends most of the time. playing with random n00bs without communication is just dumb.
Quote from: Rambo on September 12, 2007, 01:53:12 PM
a quick communication system in bf2/2142 style is sufficient. this screenie/vid stuff is a nice to have feature, but it should be implemented carefully.
Quote from: Rambo on September 13, 2007, 07:13:16 PM
it could distract the player, overlap something important, be spammed, etc.
tbh i don't care about it much, because i got a mic and some regular mates...
Quote from: Rambo on April 22, 2008, 10:35:25 PM
it makes communication and teamplay way easier for newcomers and solo players and it would also make it less boring when all the action is taking place somewhere else.
Owned.
lol wut? Owned how?
I remember this being discussed once already. I don't really favor the idea. I'm with frvge in it being over-powered and a waste of time to input.
i don't think it's op, but i can see problems with performance, taking away screen space, effort to implement etc (just like i did the last time this was discussed). i also don't think that it would help better players/teams that much, but especially for new players it's a nice-to-have feature.
The miniscreen could be on when spies don't use their radar for scouting, sharing the same spot in the corner of the screen. That way the HUD won't become too crowded as I don't see my eyes fixed on the cam feed as I scan the area for mercs. Oh, and it won't be OP as long as it stays at small resolutions and the viewer should not be able to see through his mate's visions. Performance problem could be solved by rendering a wireframe (optional?), showing icons of tactical importance: spies, mercs, mines, traps, doors, hacking panels, objectives et cetera.
Edit:(random thought)
Even exprienced players could find it useful if you would see the mercs as red icons even throgh walls on the wireframe if they have been marked by a bullet. You could actually be able to give your friend information that he's not able to gain on his own.
Edit #2
Reminds me of that in-game 3D tactical map that was introduced years ago at Ubi forums. Maybe we shouldn't forget about that either.
Going to echo frvge and westfall and say this is pretty unbalanced and useless.
kurbutti makes a nice point here: why shouldn't we enhance the hud?
and if you think it's op, explain why.
I think it'd be more useful for mercs. You could instantly see if your mate is into trouble and hurry to him.
Heh, you could make a percs system similar to another game which I won't say coz the pc players heads will probably explode but there have been a few suggestions which people may or may not want but don't really qualify as gadgets, you could give spies a choice of one of those percs such as viewing other team-mates, viewing sticky cam perm, viewing teammates equip. Give em a choice of somthing like that. Of course this could completely scew the gameplay, just throwing another idea out there...
There are plenty of reasons not to improve the HUD, and one of those was already said by you. Performance. There are plenty of other ways to improve the HUD without doing this and hurting performance.
I can already run games like GRAW that have cam feeds with my machine just fine.
AMD 64 3500+
X800 Pro
2048 DDR 300
Quote from: Papa Skull on April 23, 2008, 04:55:39 PM
There are plenty of reasons not to improve the HUD, and one of those was already said by you. Performance. There are plenty of other ways to improve the HUD without doing this and hurting performance.
if there are so plenty, why can't you tell me some good besides the uncertain performance problem??
your 2nd sentence contradicts your first, btw.
Quoteif there are so plenty, why can't you tell me some good besides the uncertain performance problem??
your 2nd sentence contradicts your first, btw.
How does he contradict. He's saying there are other things the HUD needed which should be implemented first, before we start thinking about stuff that could potentially damage performance.
I dont like this idea, It will take up to much space on the screen, would be distracting, and thats what mics are for. It would be to OP.
so it's op because it takes up space one the screen, distracts and does nothing more than a mic?? cute logic...
Quote from: Rambo on April 23, 2008, 06:33:58 PM
so it's op because it takes up space one the screen, distracts and does nothing more than a mic?? cute logic...
Stop twisting my words, this offers more than a mic, but THIS IS WHAT MICS were supposed to be for, planning tw, etc. I dont want my mates screen overlaying mine, taking up half the screen ffs, its annoying as fuck. You shouldnt need all these homo HUD addon BS to make good teamwork. At the moment there arent many teams on CT with GOOD teamwork. This crappy mate screen viewer thing would make it TOO EASY to TW. Good TW is what seperates the good from teh pro (<<< im teh pro>>>). I dont know why this is needed. We have plenty of other ways of planning teamwork, with ingame chat, ingame mic etc, this just isnt needed and it would annoying as fuckkkkk!
Quote from: FR33M4N on April 23, 2008, 06:42:48 PM
Quote from: Rambo on April 23, 2008, 06:33:58 PM
so it's op because it takes up space one the screen, distracts and does nothing more than a mic?? cute logic...
Stop twisting my words, this offers more than a mic, but THIS IS WHAT MICS were supposed to be for, planning tw, etc. I dont want my mates screen overlaying mine, taking up half the screen ffs, its annoying as fuck. You shouldnt need all these homo HUD addon BS to make good teamwork. At the moment there arent many teams on CT with GOOD teamwork. This crappy mate screen viewer thing would make it TOO EASY to TW. Good TW is what seperates the good from teh pro (<<< im teh pro>>>). I dont know why this is needed. We have plenty of other ways of planning teamwork, with ingame chat, ingame mic etc, this just isnt needed and it would annoying as fuckkkkk!
I agree that this window is a good idea, but this isn't helping the players in term of skill progression. We do not need this window and anyway I think it would be better to spend the dev team time on something else than that. We have our mics and we have to develop our communication skills.
I guess that we do not feel like if we were playing split-screen lol...
The only reasoning I've seen as to why this is a good idea is because if you have a mate who doesn't know what hes doing then you can go assist. Still wouldn't matter if the spies were split up messing around with you one on one.
The reasons I've seen for bad, which outweigh the good significantly, are the taking up of screen room, the unnecessary distraction, the drop in use of mics. Other reasons include it being cheap, which it is, programming issues (can I get a dev on this one), the lag that would go along with this, and just the reason that it doesn't even make sense why it would work in the game.
This died with the other thread it was with. Let it stay there please.
these forums are hilarious,
person 1-new idea-
person 2-hate it-
person 3- not like orignal ct-
person 1- explains
person 2-hate it-
person 3- ignores explination, i dont like it-
EVERYTHING CAN BE BALANCED EVERYTHING.
and since spekk is gone i guess i have to play the role of devils advocate.
this is a good idea because it encourages a more casual playerbase to join. Set the view as a toggle in replacement of the minimap( no ui issues), if you have ever played HL2 you realize that we have officially progressed to the point where remote cameras do NOT cause a performance hit. OP??? how is that op? it puts the people without mics up to a closer standing with those without and helps encourage pug groups instead the elitistism we have now. if you are REALLY concerned with OMG YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR PARTNER IS DOING!?!?!?! give it to both teams and enforce a first person view on the cameras. how much time do you spend with your spy staring at a wall, while using the camera to look around a corner. as for a distraction... please, please if you are having issues with distractions in games such as shiney lights, go back to pong, that should be simple enough for you.
pros:
casual friendly
enhanced teamwork ( perfect timing of assaults)
cons:
... i guess that we have to actually make some changes to CT? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooo our most favoritist game might actually evolve into something new.
Well, if you can see what your partner is doing, make it a logical reason, visor or something for the spy or the merc, whatever. It's interesting to see what everybody thinks about this feature.
Casual doesn't mean noob. A casual gamer is simply a gamer playing less than a hardcore. We already have a mic for Team Work, we already have to look at our partner or to listen to what he has to say to enhance Teamwork and you also have to get the right timing as you said to achieve it.
The player has to do this by himself with the tool we give to him [aim, movement, camera, etc]. If PS has a Small Window showing what your partner is doing it will act exactly like a "radar". It's the same Game mechanic, it's a system doing the job for the player.
Classic Radar:
This system is usually based on the sounds generated by the other players and there location.
Consequences
The player do not need to hear what is going on. He doesn't need to guess anymore from where the shots were coming from. He doesn't need to aniticipate his enemy's movement because he see him on the radar and he can't over-think him.
Conclusion
This system is removing many gameplays, strategies and suprise elements. Everything that has been done [sounds, visual effects, leve ldesign, etc] becomes useless. No need to hear anything, no need to anticpate and create reactions, no need to use a greande as a 1 second smoke grenade to trick, etc.
Small window showing what your partner is doing:
This system is usually based on the vision generated by the other player.
Consequences
The player do not need to watch what his partner is doing. He doesn't need to guess anymore where is the enemy in the other room with his partner to help him. He doesn't need to aniticipate his enemy's movement because he see him on screen and he can't develop or create any strategies by himself to find this out. The mic becomes useless to describe what you or your partner just saw.
Conclusion
This system is removing many gameplays, strategies and suprise elements. Everything that has been done [sounds, visual effects, leve ldesign, etc] becomes useless. No need to hear anything, no need to anticpate and create reactions, no need to use a greande as a 1 second smoke grenade to trick, etc. You can already see what is happening on the other siade by looking at your partner screen. The chances for suprise elements and smart gameplays are removed and you already see what is going on in your back.
=========================================
I think there is too many negative sides to this feature. I great game isn't making his gameplays easier for the casual gamers because the attractive points of the game are exactly the fact that these things are difficult to achieve by yourself and by a good communication.
Halo 2 and 3 are bad because they tried to attract casual gamers by scrapping the core gameplay [auto-aim, lunging strikes + general damage, linear and repetitive health system, etc]. Call of Duty 4 is bad for his martyr dome, auto-aim, auto-kill claymore, 3 quick body shots to kill, etc... All these casual gaming elements aren't improving the quality of a game. Do not misunderstand the point, I'm not saying "CoD4 and Halo are bad games".
Guitar Hero 2-3 are awesome because the core gameplay isn't changed and nothing is there to help [oky, what I said isn't totally correct because GH3 is using a little "auto-aim" system that makes the notes easier to hit], but it stays that a great game design stays a great game design. Trying to make some gameplays easier is never a good thing because by doing this you destroy everything linked to it. Everything that is done during the production takes time and efforts... sometimes money so makeing a system that makes many stuff useless isn't great at all.
Feel free to argue, debate and express yourself... The idea of the small window is interesting, but maybe not great enough to fit in PS.
I could be all wrong 8)
I overthought the idea and read Tin's post and I have to say .. good idea .. should definitely go in! I think it's one of those changes that really add to the gameplay!
Reasons:
- Makes the game wayyy more appealing to new players. They can learn from better ones, copy their actions and learn what to do.
- Makes cooperating without mics easier and still doesn't hurt the importance of mics, because you've still got a considerable advantage when using mics.
- Makes timing a lot easier, you don't have to ask your partner if he's ready to cover you, just a quick look at the top left corner of your screen and you know it.
=> Good thing, go BuddyCam!
Quote from: BurningDeath on April 23, 2008, 08:53:40 PM
I overthought the idea and read Tin's post and I have to say .. good idea .. should definitely go in! I think it's one of those changes that really add to the gameplay!
Reasons:
- Makes the game wayyy more appealing to new players. They can learn from better ones, copy their actions and learn what to do.
- Makes cooperating without mics easier and still doesn't hurt the importance of mics, because you've still got a considerable advantage when using mics.
- Makes timing a lot easier, you don't have to ask your partner if he's ready to cover you, just a quick look at the top left corner of your screen and you know it.
=> Good thing, go BuddyCam!
But you also stop the casual players to become better and smarter at playing the game.
It obligates the good and great players to use this feature and makes the team skills they developed useless.
You promote individual gameplay when the game should be based on Teamwork, searching, observing, tracking and make suprises.
What is the point in making a cover [a map] if anyway you can see your enemy in your mate's view and you can exactly see where he is going behind it?
So by making it a real feature you would just breaking down the design of this game, wouldn't it?
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg169.imageshack.us%2Fimg169%2F4073%2Fsvm2croppedcopybi8.jpg&hash=afad0753fdb294c5532700deedc82a2c9d0c9f51)
Quote from: BurningDeath on April 23, 2008, 08:53:40 PM
I overthought the idea and read Tin's post!
YES PT VETS FOR THE WIN AND THANK GOD FOR THE VETERNS
cause without this insight then all would be lost =) !
^
I
IMPLANT THAT ABOVE STATEMENT INTO YOUR HEADS
but to stay on topic here, I also think its a good idea even tho that system already exists in UT3 it self as it stands inside the game, wow some of you haven't bought UT3 yet, lazy hos
anyway
Conz : if not locked the player can see both sides of whats going on .
Pros : like people said before it gives New comers an insight . but then again I thought a tutorial mode is being made scince thats why you have a writer ? .
Quote from: Hyrage on April 23, 2008, 09:13:48 PM
Quote from: BurningDeath on April 23, 2008, 08:53:40 PM
I overthought the idea and read Tin's post and I have to say .. good idea .. should definitely go in! I think it's one of those changes that really add to the gameplay!
Reasons:
- Makes the game wayyy more appealing to new players. They can learn from better ones, copy their actions and learn what to do.
- Makes cooperating without mics easier and still doesn't hurt the importance of mics, because you've still got a considerable advantage when using mics.
- Makes timing a lot easier, you don't have to ask your partner if he's ready to cover you, just a quick look at the top left corner of your screen and you know it.
=> Good thing, go BuddyCam!
But you also stop the casual players to become better and smarter at playing the game.
It obligates the good and great players to use this feature and makes the team skills they developed useless.
You promote individual gameplay when the game should be based on Teamwork, searching, observing, tracking and make suprises.
What is the point in making a cover [a map] if anyway you can see your enemy in your mate's view and you can exactly see where he is going behind it?
So by making it a real feature you would just breaking down the design of this game, wouldn't it?
helping new players learn the game does not mean that they wont learn the deeper strategies over time, it just evens out the learning curve.
yes it means older players will learn new tricks, this is a good thing, once again putting older players more on par at release. These players of course will pick up on new tricks for it very quick but its a temporary thing anyway, new is goooood.
it doesnt promote individual play anymore than giving each spy a tazer or gas, if only 1 could do those things then you would say, well thats just making teamwork nescessary and harsh. having your teammate at an advantageous spot to see an incoming merc is just a different style of play. and finally if you can see him through first person, as i suggested, then the old saying comes to mind, if i can see him he can see me, and subsequently put a bullet through my face.
i wouldn't rush it, it's a complicated matter. i just think that we don't have to copy the hud functions of a certain game 1:1.
Quote from: Tinweasele on April 23, 2008, 09:47:10 PM
Quote from: Hyrage on April 23, 2008, 09:13:48 PM
Quote from: BurningDeath on April 23, 2008, 08:53:40 PM
I overthought the idea and read Tin's post and I have to say .. good idea .. should definitely go in! I think
it's one of those changes that really add to the gameplay!
Reasons:
- Makes the game wayyy more appealing to new players. They can learn from better ones, copy their actions and learn what to do.
- Makes cooperating without mics easier and still doesn't hurt the importance of mics, because you've still got a considerable advantage when using mics.
- Makes timing a lot easier, you don't have to ask your partner if he's ready to cover you, just a quick look at the top left corner of your screen and you know it.
=> Good thing, go BuddyCam!
But you also stop the casual players to become better and smarter at playing the game.
It obligates the good and great players to use this feature and makes the team skills they developed useless.
You promote individual gameplay when the game should be based on Teamwork, searching, observing, tracking and make suprises.
What is the point in making a cover [a map] if anyway you can see your enemy in your mate's view and you can exactly see where he is going behind it?
So by making it a real feature you would just breaking down the design of this game, wouldn't it?
helping new players learn the game does not mean that they wont learn the deeper strategies over time, it just evens out the learning curve.
yes it means older players will learn new tricks, this is a good thing, once again putting older players more on par at release. These players of course will pick up on new tricks for it very quick but its a temporary thing anyway, new is goooood.
it doesnt promote individual play anymore than giving each spy a tazer or gas, if only 1 could do those things then you would say, well thats just making teamwork nescessary and harsh. having your teammate at an advantageous spot to see an incoming merc is just a different style of play. and finally if you can see him through first person, as i suggested, then the old saying comes to mind, if i can see him he can see me, and subsequently put a bullet through my face.
Sorry, I modified the content of the post, I felt it too much "arrogant" - and it wasn't the way I wanted to express it.Well, I will not say anything else in this thread, I already countered many things you said in my previous posts. I'll simply wait and see what the PS Dev Team is going to do with that.
The only point I bring is... there is no reason to make a Feature that is making the gameplay easier. It means, creating rules (game design of the game) and making a system (small window) that breaks these rules = wasting your time.
The small window showing your mate's view interferes with pretty much every gameplays, but I totally agree that this is a good feature for new comer and lone wolves.
it doesn't interfere with anything at all, you don't see more than your mate does and he could just tell you what he's seeing anyways. stop spamming those ridiculous long pots with no substance plz, it's a pain in the ass to read it all and find no new point in it at all.
"not seeing more than your mate does" only applies to the Mercs. The other Spy's camera can be aimed at another than his first-person view.
Quote from: Hyrage on April 23, 2008, 10:11:21 PM
The only point I bring is... there is no reason to make a Feature that is making the gameplay easier.
Yes there is. Look at how many people are playing CT SvM nowadays. We sure want to have more than that!
Quote from: Rambo on April 23, 2008, 10:48:55 PM
it doesn't interfere with anything at all, you don't see more than your mate does and he could just tell you what he's seeing anyways. stop spamming those ridiculous long pots with no substance plz, it's a pain in the ass to read it all and find no new point in it at all.
I guess that you do not have to read all the posts. You are right, you do not see more than what your mate does, but if you work together you can cover at the same time twice the map with your eyes if you both have a good coordination.Spamming:
Spam is the posting of advertisements, abusive, or unneeded messages on Internet forums. --> my posts are explicative
Then I strongly suggest you to take a Game Design Formation, to understand chess or even to play rock-paper-scissor.
It's really simple.
You have a spy who can use a smoke grenade and walk silently.
You have a merc who can use his motion tracker vision and his eyes to detect sounds by looking at his reticle, but both have a friend.
Well, the merc can see in his screen a small window showing his mate's view.
The spy is running toward the merc and smoke him in the face...
The merc is blind and slow...
To counter, he can use his visions... but the spy isn't using night visions or running.. he is slow and walk silently.Perfect! The merc just can't spot him.
This was a balanced situation where both used their possible tools against each others, but...
The second merc is on the other side of the map and he is shooting the other spy. In his screen you can see a jumping spy who is going to kill the first merc by his right side. The smoke is gone... and oh the merc just kill the spy easily avoiding the drop attack and striking him during the hard landing.
Yes the other Merc could have just say that the spy was at his right, but he would never be able to clearly explain where he was exactly in mid-air what would give enough time to the spy to kill the merc. The Game Balance is broken with this example, but if looking at this small window requires a sacrifice/ balanced gameplay [can't move for a few seconds, etc...] it could greatly fit and it could be an excellent idea ;D.
Communication jammer could get a nice place here - blocking both the small screens and the mics
This way it would be totally balanced, I guess. ::)
interesting idea . I might like the option where it'd take like 5 seconds to 'join' in your partner's vision. But Mercs only!
Quote from: frvge on April 24, 2008, 12:35:21 AM
interesting idea . I might like the option where it'd take like 5 seconds to 'join' in your partner's vision. But Mercs only!
I think it would be great ^^, let's see if we could find better or if it's just fine
Quote from: Rambo on April 23, 2008, 05:14:01 PM
Quote from: Papa Skull on April 23, 2008, 04:55:39 PM
There are plenty of reasons not to improve the HUD, and one of those was already said by you. Performance. There are plenty of other ways to improve the HUD without doing this and hurting performance.
if there are so plenty, why can't you tell me some good besides the uncertain performance problem??
your 2nd sentence contradicts your first, btw.
Lol, please tell me you understand mid-advanced English. It has no contradiction. It really doesn't need a whole bunch of pimping out, a basic HUD is all you really need - like now. It is possible to improve the HUD, clean it up, make it simple, make it easy to use, make it have all the info you need w/o having to push a button, etc... What is not needed is something that could clog up your screen, block your view, be distracting, and possibly hurt performance. What I DID say before that, however, was if performance checks out then it could be a nice addition. Just make sure that it's possible to have a good HUD that isn't crowded or obstructing view with the Picture in Picture...
Is it possible to make the overlay simply a rendering of a second camera? Instead of actually trying to stream video you could just have a second camera rendering your teammates view. Of course that would still imply rendering a second screen but perhaps you could do something GRAW esque where the small overlay screen is a significantly lower quality video feel that is essentially post-processed down to the point where it looks cool but doesn't require alot of rendering power?
And I mean give the player the option to resize it and turn it on/off with one simple button. Ofcourse you could say that balance could be problematic but im personally guessing that if both sides have it and it merely helps improve other less experienced player's teamwork skills then it can't be too bad. In theory a very good team will be descriptive enough when chatting to one another to reach the point of not even needing that video feed but for other people who aren't really sure how to describe where the spy went in great map detail they can atleast show their partner.
While I'm still not at all for the screen in screen thing, I will make this attempt at getting rid of/still implementing this "what-could-be" a bad idea. I understand all of the arguments and don't deny anything Tin or Hyrage have said. Both are very valid arguments. The more I try and picture this, the more I'm hating it.
Solution: Why not make it a part of the camnet. You can see what is going on through your partners hud (obviously the camera would scale to size of the monitor, but still be significant). Constant on the screen viewing of your partner's hud takes away from the game and doesn't server a significant purpose. I can't figure out what would be a good way to use this with spies. Ideas would be cool. Maybe you can manipulate the whole idea. I'm just trying to stray from the screen-in-screen. The point of the merc is to be guarding objectives in a remote location with a fellow merc. I don't want to be keeping an eye on the merc the entire time while trying to conserve my own life.
In terms of a distraction: It takes up a good chunk of the screen that I don't want it to take up. Don't know about you, but I love to see my surroundings. Maybe a toggle key? Gadget idea? Definitely not a permanent screen-in-screen if this is indeed implemented.
of course it should be toggable.
what about giving more 3d information via the hud like the objectives and security mistakes are shown now (mate's position, bullets/cams/etc, merc when tracked with bullet/hbs, etc)? what about giving the mercs' a 3d map like in scda? what about having the region name you are currently in showing up there?
just to clarify myself here: i don't need all that stuff, but it would certainly help new players and solo players. the skill gaps in svm are that high anyways that this certainly wouldn't help noobs too much.
Side idea, i thought of while reading this, what about a team only voice chat in the lobby?
Obviously it would be a toggle, between team and all. That would be kinda nice in game to for laughing at ppl. :P
great idea
What about using a button to make the small high-tech screen appears and it makes all the rest looking blurry because your eyes are focusing on the little window. So you do not see what is happening.
THe Game BLACK use this when the player reloads.
Tbh Hyrage I think that would be a decent idea. But your original screen shouldn't be blurred to the extreme, just to the point where details aren't noticeable.
no it would be a stupid idea as it would make it unattractive to use so that the pros won't use it at all.
If it's attracting new people to the game you want, this isn't the 1 and only way to go to achieve that. Why exactly would the pros not use it? Because it blurs their own screen a couple pixels? Get real.
Quote from: Rambo on April 24, 2008, 06:42:45 PM
no it would be a stupid idea as it would make it unattractive to use so that the pros won't use it at all.
When you look to the small screen you do not even look at yours. As I said, the gameplay related to this feature would depend of what you really want to do with it.
I agree with papa, too much blurry isn't great.
Quote from: Rambo on April 24, 2008, 06:42:45 PM
no it would be a stupid idea as it would make it unattractive to use so that the pros won't use it at all.
You originally said pro's wouldnt use this gadget.
Quote from: FR33M4N on April 24, 2008, 08:15:44 PM
Quote from: Rambo on April 24, 2008, 06:42:45 PM
no it would be a stupid idea as it would make it unattractive to use so that the pros won't use it at all.
You originally said pro's wouldnt use this gadget.
Anyway, being able to see through this blur would require skills.
Wait... skills = pros???
Pros will probably use it. This would replace the stupid icons above the head of your mates in many other games and become a lot more useful.
With this feature, you could now exactly say, watch out on your left, 10 o'clock the guy is coming.
Quote from: Rambo on April 24, 2008, 06:42:45 PM
no it would be a stupid idea as it would make it unattractive to use so that the pros won't use it at all.
No, this thread is a stupid idea.
Quote from: Westfall-US on April 24, 2008, 09:21:50 PM
Quote from: Rambo on April 24, 2008, 06:42:45 PM
no it would be a stupid idea as it would make it unattractive to use so that the pros won't use it at all.
No, this thread is a stupid idea.
Agreed.
Why not go the whole way and allow people with second monitors to have their team-mate displayed on the other screen :O :O :O!!!!!
</massive sarcasm>
Stupid? Fine. Whatever.
Actually, I thought having a fully rotateable 3D map available for both spies and mercs would be a lot better way of giving new players a better idea where they are, and most importantly how to get to the objective as a spy, or how to defend it as a merc. Besides of being a simply a map, it could show you a lot of different tactical locations such as doors, hacking panels, med kits, ammo boxes, objectives, disc drop offs, your mate, and your enemy, given he has been marked by either a spytrap or a spy bullet. That's probably the best way of sharing tactical information with your teammate fast and effectively.
As for some other things that came into my mind while reading the thread was the mentioned ability to see through your mates eyes. As such I don't like it; however, being able to share sticky cam feed with your mate will make co-ordinating manouvers easier because you can point directly at a location of some sort of tactical importance. Like a ledge, a box, hacking panel, objective, covering spot. Anything you can think of. Viewing will take up your whole screen and you won't be able to control your mate's camera in any way.
As for the cam mechanics, you should be able to place as many simultaneous cams you want, and the most recent should be able to launch gas. Now here's the thing that's going to make "camnet" useful: The cams that can't launch gas won't glow on EMF unless they are being used. That way cams gain more potential as recon tools; a trait they miserably lack in CT.
Sounds awesome to me :O
Me too, sounds great Kurbutti. I especially like the sticky cam idea. I'm all for a simple and easy to use 3D map, if possible.
Never been against the 3D map. Do think the screen in screen isn't worth it. However, the spy camnet system was already talked about thoroughly in another thread. I really don't feel like discussing the same things again.
MMMMMMMMm what about on the device on your arm you can bring it up like Double agents arm hacked, things will be blurred but you can still look around freely. Then you could swap between camera feeds, teammate feeds, 3d map and the options menu. Kind like an all-in one device.
No need for such things. Just replace the vision and make the spy blind to everything else.
This really isn't worth it.
Quote from: Kurbutti on April 24, 2008, 11:28:00 PM
Actually, I thought having a fully rotateable 3D map available for both spies and mercs would be a lot better way of giving new players a better idea where they are, and most importantly how to get to the objective as a spy, or how to defend it as a merc. Besides of being a simply a map, it could show you a lot of different tactical locations such as doors, hacking panels, med kits, ammo boxes, objectives, disc drop offs, your mate, and your enemy, given he has been marked by either a spytrap or a spy bullet. That's probably the best way of sharing tactical information with your teammate fast and effectively.
As for some other things that came into my mind while reading the thread was the mentioned ability to see through your mates eyes. As such I don't like it; however, being able to share sticky cam feed with your mate will make co-ordinating manouvers easier because you can point directly at a location of some sort of tactical importance. Like a ledge, a box, hacking panel, objective, covering spot. Anything you can think of. Viewing will take up your whole screen and you won't be able to control your mate's camera in any way.
As for the cam mechanics, you should be able to place as many simultaneous cams you want, and the most recent should be able to launch gas. Now here's the thing that's going to make "camnet" useful: The cams that can't launch gas won't glow on EMF unless they are being used. That way cams gain more potential as recon tools; a trait they miserably lack in CT.
all this sounds pretty good to me, if you guys don't like it don't just flame it but provide some good points. i know the sticky cam suggestion was already under discussion, but as far as i can remember the result was that it was a nice-to-have-feature because it's pretty unnecessary, but i think if people get used to it they would make use of it just like hbs. especially with the new emf suggestions, i can't see any real valid point against it.
a 3d hud like an improved version of the scda hud is really something that could improve the accessibility for newcomers drastically while not hurting the vets at all. i just think a combination of a 3d map and a 3d hud with some distance information would be required because it was kinda hard to read the exact distance from the scda radar.
making very basic stuff like communication, controls and map information hard for newb isn't exactly what gives this kind of game depth...
I think the sticky cam thing is kinda neat, spies would be able to make their own spynet.
Funny, seemed to me like everyone was against it when I suggested it.
Quote from: LennardF1989 on April 22, 2008, 11:49:04 PM
Opinions can change...
LennardF1989 wisdom I guess lol...
Quote from: Papa Skull on April 25, 2008, 06:06:36 PM
Funny, seemed to me like everyone was against it when I suggested it.
I dont like it the idea, how would one easily be able to determine which pre-placed cam he chooses 5 different buttons (to confusing, buttons would get mishit), a scrolling system (takes to long for quick cams). I think this is the type of feature people would use once, because they think there 1337 cos they know were the merc are, and not use it again + u would waste your o' so vital cams.
Good points. They would be even more "o' so vital" because aggro gets a little nerf in PS. But it wouldn't be confusing, and buttons wouldn't be mishit. What's even more vital than sticky cams is knowing exactly where mercs are at all times.
Quickcams are bullshit, and the amount of cams should be reduced to three of four to make that idiocy less frequent.
Yeah, you could do that. Or, you could just make it so that there is a delay between launch and the time you can actually launch gas. 2 second delay is all you need. But then again, that's another huge nerf for aggro, and we don't really need that.
I'm seriously not discussing this again. Wow how much I wish Spekkio was here.
You're not obligated to take part in that. Just ignore it if that suits you better. And I'm not here to start a million page long discussion about the every aspect of the cams; I introduced a new feature that's assiciated with the idea I originally presented.
Hush.
Quote from: Kurbutti on April 26, 2008, 06:13:56 AM
Quickcams are bullshit, and the amount of cams should be reduced to three of four to make that idiocy less frequent.
The solution to quick cams is a client side gas mask. The host really doesn't have huge problems with them. It's mostly the guy who activated his gas mask and got KOed anyway who suffers. Oh, and to add insult to injury, your gas mask gets used up while you're down since it still activates, just too late to actually save you.
Now that's bullshit.
If you get your mask on before the gas fires, you shouldn't be KOed.
Quote from: Kurbutti on April 26, 2008, 01:41:05 PM
You're not obligated to take part in that. Just ignore it if that suits you better. And I'm not here to start a million page long discussion about the every aspect of the cams; I introduced a new feature that's assiciated with the idea I originally presented.
Hush.
Don't tell me to hush. If anything I should tell you to hush for talking about a topic in a different thread, bringing up an old topic that died, and because the idea of spynet is still ridiculous. Spies are already in third person...what fuckin more do you need?
Quote from: Westfall on April 26, 2008, 05:35:48 PM
Quote from: Kurbutti on April 26, 2008, 01:41:05 PM
You're not obligated to take part in that. Just ignore it if that suits you better. And I'm not here to start a million page long discussion about the every aspect of the cams; I introduced a new feature that's assiciated with the idea I originally presented.
Hush.
Don't tell me to hush. If anything I should tell you to hush for talking about a topic in a different thread, bringing up an old topic that died, and because the idea of spynet is still ridiculous. Spies are already in third person...what fuckin more do you need?
Well I agree lol... Where are you from westfall?
Quote from: Westfall on April 26, 2008, 05:35:48 PM
Quote from: Kurbutti on April 26, 2008, 01:41:05 PM
You're not obligated to take part in that. Just ignore it if that suits you better. And I'm not here to start a million page long discussion about the every aspect of the cams; I introduced a new feature that's assiciated with the idea I originally presented.
Hush.
Don't tell me to hush. If anything I should tell you to hush for talking about a topic in a different thread, bringing up an old topic that died, and because the idea of spynet is still ridiculous. Spies are already in third person...what fuckin more do you need?
Westfall strikes again. And he's from the US of A I believe.
Quote from: Hyrage on April 26, 2008, 05:37:50 PM
Quote from: Westfall on April 26, 2008, 05:35:48 PM
Quote from: Kurbutti on April 26, 2008, 01:41:05 PM
You're not obligated to take part in that. Just ignore it if that suits you better. And I'm not here to start a million page long discussion about the every aspect of the cams; I introduced a new feature that's assiciated with the idea I originally presented.
Hush.
Don't tell me to hush. If anything I should tell you to hush for talking about a topic in a different thread, bringing up an old topic that died, and because the idea of spynet is still ridiculous. Spies are already in third person...what fuckin more do you need?
Well I agree lol... Where are you from westfall?
USA east coast
I also agree, somewhat. There's no point int discussing it again though.