I was thinking about CT mines, and I couldn't help but re-visit the subject on the forum. If any of you have played Lost Planet, you may have a better understanding of what I'm talking about than others. In LP multiplayer, there is a type of grenade. Don't remember what it's called, but when you throw it, it sticks to the surface it meets first. I was thinking you can apply that sort of thing to mines to possibly get them into places a merc can't exactly reach. Examples: vents, ceilings. This could also help speed up the mercs moves. So if he plans to plant a mine urgently while someone is hacking, he can throw the mine, to not waste as much time as treading down to the wall, placing it, then going back.
Since this may be alittle overpowering, the throwing can be unaccurate, to make the move not so strong on the merc end, yet add quality.
Mercs are suppose to be slow, and mines need to be in easy to see places that spies can easily disable by hand using stealth.
Well, if the spy can't reach the mine, the mine can't reach the spy ;) So the merc just needs to be smart where to place.
QuoteI was thinking you can apply that sort of thing to mines to possibly get them into places a merc can't exactly reach. Examples: vents, ceilings.
This is really bad idea. It would allow mercs to completely block spies in crucial places.
Quote from: Blank Man on June 06, 2008, 10:58:37 AM
Well, if the spy can't reach the mine, the mine can't reach the spy
Ceiliing mines + low corridors = fail.
i think that's stupid
if there were that in CT or PS it would be so easy for merc
by example ure playing on club house (or lakehouse) u stick a mine in the vent above garden (hope u know which one i mean) and one into roof in hall. if u do that, spies just cant get out of their spawn point.
Shooting mine with the spy laser should turn the light green and temporarily disable it instead of blowing the thing up.
Interesting idea
Quote from: Tidenburg on June 06, 2008, 06:51:21 PM
Shooting mine with the spy laser should turn the light green and temporarily disable it instead of blowing the thing up.
yeah that's an interesting idea.
Quote from: Tidenburg on June 06, 2008, 06:51:21 PM
Shooting mine with the spy laser should turn the light green and temporarily disable it instead of blowing the thing up.
Interesting, but chaff already disables mines. Plus, the satisfaction of blowing up a merc with his own mine is priceless.
how about 1 ss shots disables the mine, and 3 shots blow it up?
Quote from: Rambo on June 06, 2008, 08:14:20 PM
how about 1 ss shots disables the mine, and 3 shots blow it up?
I don't agree with shooting the mine disabling it.
well atm the mine placement is kinda restricted as you have to place them behind corners, and this way if you place them in the open at least you aren't punished by loosing the mine.
imo disabling mines is way too fast/easy for aggro players with just shooting at them and chaff going through all materials.
Quote from: Tidenburg on June 06, 2008, 06:51:21 PM
Shooting mine with the spy laser should turn the light green and temporarily disable it instead of blowing the thing up.
Funny that when I suggested something like this awhile ago most people said "OMFG HELLZ NOES!!"
At the op, hell noes. lol
It still has the same powers for stealth: shoot to disable, then sneak up to it and remove it.
It's also more consistent with the shocking of the Mercs I think.
You lose the blowing the Merc up, but maybe with 2 shocks? I dunno.
blowing up mercs from a distance that you couldnt just shock the merc and activate the mine manually is quite rate (however, maybe the proxy mine radius gets fixed and laser mines get more common/changed by insta-explosion).
Quote from: Blank Man on June 06, 2008, 10:58:37 AM
Well, if the spy can't reach the mine, the mine can't reach the spy ;) So the merc just needs to be smart where to place.
Wrong. What if a merc throws a mine into a vent, which spies have to climb into to disable, as soon as they climb up, KABOOMPOWAWUNGA, and you're dead and theres absolutely no way of disabling it via hand, you can only shoot it.
Quote from: frvge on June 06, 2008, 11:49:45 PM
It still has the same powers for stealth: shoot to disable, then sneak up to it and remove it.
It's also more consistent with the shocking of the Mercs I think.
You lose the blowing the Merc up, but maybe with 2 shocks? I dunno.
Im all for another button doing this, but not the primary fire. Sometimes when blowing a mine u dont have enough time to press fire twice. Hey what about the jump key? When you have ur gun out u cant jump anyway, and i think it would be the ideal button as its right next to all of the others. I think shooting it w LMB should be an insta blow, and aiming at it and pressing (action button) should disable it for a while. this should be the same for the trip lasers, security cameras etc.
Quote from: FR33M4N on June 07, 2008, 12:21:26 AM
Quote from: Blank Man on June 06, 2008, 10:58:37 AM
Well, if the spy can't reach the mine, the mine can't reach the spy ;) So the merc just needs to be smart where to place.
Wrong. What if a merc throws a mine into a vent, which spies have to climb into to disable, as soon as they climb up, KABOOMPOWAWUNGA, and you're dead and theres absolutely no way of disabling it via hand, you can only shoot it.
I don't recall anybody saying that chaff will be removed. And besides, maybe there will be a stealth way to enter vents, so that you can actually enter one, instead of jumping in, and not set off any mines. Think about it ;)
Quote from: Blank Man on June 07, 2008, 12:42:31 AM
Quote from: FR33M4N on June 07, 2008, 12:21:26 AM
Quote from: Blank Man on June 06, 2008, 10:58:37 AM
Well, if the spy can't reach the mine, the mine can't reach the spy ;) So the merc just needs to be smart where to place.
Wrong. What if a merc throws a mine into a vent, which spies have to climb into to disable, as soon as they climb up, KABOOMPOWAWUNGA, and you're dead and theres absolutely no way of disabling it via hand, you can only shoot it.
I don't recall anybody saying that chaff will be removed. And besides, maybe there will be a stealth way to enter vents, so that you can actually enter one, instead of jumping in, and not set off any mines. Think about it ;)
Dont add stuff as you go along, you didnt say that at the start, and how the hell else are you going to get into a vent above you, equip your jetpack and fly in? and what if the mine is to far to be chaffed, but close enough to kill, remember when u climb in a vent you will get closer to the mine (inside the vent) so it will be more likely to kill. The only option is to shoot a chaff in or shoot it, or ofcourse Do a motherfuckin' barrel role.
firing mines sounds like it could have spy/merc balance problems ???
Quote from: FR33M4N on June 07, 2008, 12:57:01 AM
Quote from: Blank Man on June 07, 2008, 12:42:31 AM
Quote from: FR33M4N on June 07, 2008, 12:21:26 AM
Quote from: Blank Man on June 06, 2008, 10:58:37 AM
Well, if the spy can't reach the mine, the mine can't reach the spy ;) So the merc just needs to be smart where to place.
Wrong. What if a merc throws a mine into a vent, which spies have to climb into to disable, as soon as they climb up, KABOOMPOWAWUNGA, and you're dead and theres absolutely no way of disabling it via hand, you can only shoot it.
I don't recall anybody saying that chaff will be removed. And besides, maybe there will be a stealth way to enter vents, so that you can actually enter one, instead of jumping in, and not set off any mines. Think about it ;)
Dont add stuff as you go along, you didnt say that at the start, and how the hell else are you going to get into a vent above you, equip your jetpack and fly in? and what if the mine is to far to be chaffed, but close enough to kill, remember when u climb in a vent you will get closer to the mine (inside the vent) so it will be more likely to kill. The only option is to shoot a chaff in or shoot it, or ofcourse Do a motherfuckin' barrel role.
Getting in a vent above you has nothing to do with mines. If a mine is too far to be chaffed, then it won't reach you when you go into the vent, so you can remove it. Are you just throwing in counter arguements without even thinking? Thanks for making sense.
Quote from: Blank Man on June 07, 2008, 12:42:31 AM
Quote from: FR33M4N on June 07, 2008, 12:21:26 AM
Quote from: Blank Man on June 06, 2008, 10:58:37 AM
Well, if the spy can't reach the mine, the mine can't reach the spy ;) So the merc just needs to be smart where to place.
Wrong. What if a merc throws a mine into a vent, which spies have to climb into to disable, as soon as they climb up, KABOOMPOWAWUNGA, and you're dead and theres absolutely no way of disabling it via hand, you can only shoot it.
I don't recall anybody saying that chaff will be removed. And besides, maybe there will be a stealth way to enter vents, so that you can actually enter one, instead of jumping in, and not set off any mines. Think about it ;)
Take your own advice and think about it. Let's all throw mines up in the spy spawn point. Or over the barricade wall into the spy spawn. Or at a spy. Or on the ceiling etc etc etc. And don't say "bla bla bla chaff the mine bla bla". Certain zones are supposed to be safe for a spy. When you can throw mines they no longer are safe.
Throwing mines won't work, because not every spy takes chaff. That means that if you dont' have chaff, you're just screwed.
shooting tazer also makes noise
This is a dumb idea anyways. Throwing mines is for sissies. Placing them by hand is for real men.
ur mom is for real men XD
.... :'(
we so had this discussion at least one time before when goodkebap suggested the ability to throw mines, but rather in the anti-aggro context than in the placement-in-vents context, and afaik we agreed that it was a quite bad idea.
Quote from: Rambo on June 07, 2008, 05:10:19 PM
we so had this discussion at least one time before when goodkebap suggested the ability to throw mines, but rather in the anti-aggro context than in the placement-in-vents context, and afaik we agreed that it was a quite bad idea.
We did.
Quote from: Papa Skull on June 07, 2008, 05:48:12 AM
Quote from: Blank Man on June 07, 2008, 12:42:31 AM
Quote from: FR33M4N on June 07, 2008, 12:21:26 AM
Quote from: Blank Man on June 06, 2008, 10:58:37 AM
Well, if the spy can't reach the mine, the mine can't reach the spy ;) So the merc just needs to be smart where to place.
Wrong. What if a merc throws a mine into a vent, which spies have to climb into to disable, as soon as they climb up, KABOOMPOWAWUNGA, and you're dead and theres absolutely no way of disabling it via hand, you can only shoot it.
I don't recall anybody saying that chaff will be removed. And besides, maybe there will be a stealth way to enter vents, so that you can actually enter one, instead of jumping in, and not set off any mines. Think about it ;)
Take your own advice and think about it. Let's all throw mines up in the spy spawn point. Or over the barricade wall into the spy spawn. Or at a spy. Or on the ceiling etc etc etc. And don't say "bla bla bla chaff the mine bla bla". Certain zones are supposed to be safe for a spy. When you can throw mines they no longer are safe.
Idiot, get off my thread. Spawn points won't necessarily be in the mercs throwing reach. To throw a mine on a spy would take some pretty nice accuracy skills. Throwing a mine on a ceiling won't reach the spy. Don't tell me to think about things when the only thing you consider is "how do I respond with gayness/not making sense?".
zankew!
ur right that his counter points aren't that strong, but here is a very good one for you: svm is a game that requires/should require planning and carefullness, and placing mines should always take some time and some risk when a spy is around.
Quote from: Rambo on June 07, 2008, 11:08:48 PM
ur right that his counter points aren't that strong, but here is a very good one for you: svm is a game that requires/should require planning and carefullness, and placing mines should always take some time and some risk when a spy is around.
should we take out the guns shooting too fast? :-\
The spies should be able to blow up mines. The actual balance element in CT is:
- Aiming accurately a mine takes skills & time.
- The laser dot appears close from the mine so it already requires timing and intelligence to be able to blow up a merc with it.
- The merc can attract spies into the mines they place or cover their mines with their own body.
- I'm definately against what Goodkebab said about "mines have to be placed in <easy to see> spots", because if it was the case it would mean taking out the surpise elements of the mercs & mines would be far too easy to blow up against the mercs or being disabled.
Quote from: Blank Man on June 07, 2008, 10:30:30 PM
Quote from: Papa Skull on June 07, 2008, 05:48:12 AM
Quote from: Blank Man on June 07, 2008, 12:42:31 AM
Quote from: FR33M4N on June 07, 2008, 12:21:26 AM
Quote from: Blank Man on June 06, 2008, 10:58:37 AM
Well, if the spy can't reach the mine, the mine can't reach the spy ;) So the merc just needs to be smart where to place.
Wrong. What if a merc throws a mine into a vent, which spies have to climb into to disable, as soon as they climb up, KABOOMPOWAWUNGA, and you're dead and theres absolutely no way of disabling it via hand, you can only shoot it.
I don't recall anybody saying that chaff will be removed. And besides, maybe there will be a stealth way to enter vents, so that you can actually enter one, instead of jumping in, and not set off any mines. Think about it ;)
Take your own advice and think about it. Let's all throw mines up in the spy spawn point. Or over the barricade wall into the spy spawn. Or at a spy. Or on the ceiling etc etc etc. And don't say "bla bla bla chaff the mine bla bla". Certain zones are supposed to be safe for a spy. When you can throw mines they no longer are safe.
Idiot, get off my thread. Spawn points won't necessarily be in the mercs throwing reach. To throw a mine on a spy would take some pretty nice accuracy skills. Throwing a mine on a ceiling won't reach the spy. Don't tell me to think about things when the only thing you consider is "how do I respond with gayness/not making sense?".
zankew!
In CT maps, just go with me here, spawn points are usually open enough for a merc to at least get a frag into a spy spawn exit point. And this isn't even my main concern with your ingenious idea.
A lot of doorways lead into places with higher ceilings. If a merc can throw a poison mine 5 ft into the air and stick onto the ceiling, the spy will be absolutely unable to disable that mine in any way. Unless of course he finds a way to get around that doorway and disable it from the other side. The spy cannot taze a poison that is blocking the doorway 5 feet up, he cannot chaff it, nothing. AND, if the merc can't even throw the mine 5 feet then why the hell would you have it in the game? It's useless that way, or if you can throw it 5 feet it becomes overpowered. I'm eagerly awaiting your counter.
Why would you want to upgrade mines, the gadget every merc takes?
Seriously now... lets upgrade some gadgets that people don't take, instead of making the most popular gadgets even better.
Quote from: Papa Skull on June 08, 2008, 05:50:19 AM
Quote from: Blank Man on June 07, 2008, 10:30:30 PM
Quote from: Papa Skull on June 07, 2008, 05:48:12 AM
Quote from: Blank Man on June 07, 2008, 12:42:31 AM
Quote from: FR33M4N on June 07, 2008, 12:21:26 AM
Quote from: Blank Man on June 06, 2008, 10:58:37 AM
Well, if the spy can't reach the mine, the mine can't reach the spy ;) So the merc just needs to be smart where to place.
Wrong. What if a merc throws a mine into a vent, which spies have to climb into to disable, as soon as they climb up, KABOOMPOWAWUNGA, and you're dead and theres absolutely no way of disabling it via hand, you can only shoot it.
I don't recall anybody saying that chaff will be removed. And besides, maybe there will be a stealth way to enter vents, so that you can actually enter one, instead of jumping in, and not set off any mines. Think about it ;)
Take your own advice and think about it. Let's all throw mines up in the spy spawn point. Or over the barricade wall into the spy spawn. Or at a spy. Or on the ceiling etc etc etc. And don't say "bla bla bla chaff the mine bla bla". Certain zones are supposed to be safe for a spy. When you can throw mines they no longer are safe.
Idiot, get off my thread. Spawn points won't necessarily be in the mercs throwing reach. To throw a mine on a spy would take some pretty nice accuracy skills. Throwing a mine on a ceiling won't reach the spy. Don't tell me to think about things when the only thing you consider is "how do I respond with gayness/not making sense?".
zankew!
In CT maps, just go with me here, spawn points are usually open enough for a merc to at least get a frag into a spy spawn exit point. And this isn't even my main concern with your ingenious idea.
A lot of doorways lead into places with higher ceilings. If a merc can throw a poison mine 5 ft into the air and stick onto the ceiling, the spy will be absolutely unable to disable that mine in any way. Unless of course he finds a way to get around that doorway and disable it from the other side. The spy cannot taze a poison that is blocking the doorway 5 feet up, he cannot chaff it, nothing. AND, if the merc can't even throw the mine 5 feet then why the hell would you have it in the game? It's useless that way, or if you can throw it 5 feet it becomes overpowered. I'm eagerly awaiting your counter.
Wait no more.
Incase you forgot the poll for chaff not being able to go through walls, it showed that most people don't want it to be able to. I'm saying this because you say that mines will be (in some cases) impossibly avoided. Well, the chaff not passing walls already provokes this, so why haven't you addressed that in the chaff arguement? I will give you an example of a poison that is impossible to remove/avoid in CT. In Factory, I don't recall which vent, but you drop from a height which you can't climb back up, and at the next cross section, if a mine is placed there you can't go back. The only way to survive in this case is really quickly get to a health box, or bring a mate. This idea doesn't create any new problems, you just haven't thought about it long enough.
Quote from: Hyrage on June 08, 2008, 12:38:55 AM
Quote from: Rambo on June 07, 2008, 11:08:48 PM
ur right that his counter points aren't that strong, but here is a very good one for you: svm is a game that requires/should require planning and carefullness, and placing mines should always take some time and some risk when a spy is around.
should we take out the guns shooting too fast? :-\
The spies should be able to blow up mines. The actual balance element in CT is:
- Aiming accurately a mine takes skills & time.
- The laser dot appears close from the mine so it already requires timing and intelligence to be able to blow up a merc with it.
- The merc can attract spies into the mines they place or cover their mines with their own body.
- I'm definately against what Goodkebab said about "mines have to be placed in <easy to see> spots", because if it was the case it would mean taking out the surpise elements of the mercs & mines would be far too easy to blow up against the mercs or being disabled.
your misunderstanding kebab's point, hes saying that mines need to be visible.. not hidden in a ceiling ..
nor is he saying you can't hide , just saying that mines need to be able to remove by hand when being a spy. ;)
Quote from: Hyrage on June 08, 2008, 12:38:55 AM
Quote from: Rambo on June 07, 2008, 11:08:48 PM
ur right that his counter points aren't that strong, but here is a very good one for you: svm is a game that requires/should require planning and carefullness, and placing mines should always take some time and some risk when a spy is around.
should we take out the guns shooting too fast? :-\
??? oO
Quote from: Hyrage on June 08, 2008, 12:38:55 AM
The spies should be able to blow up mines. The actual balance element in CT is:
- Aiming accurately a mine takes skills & time.
it's only hard sometimes because of the bad mouse implementation and around-the-corner mine placement. once again, you show us your console background where aiming takes significantly more time
- The laser dot appears close from the mine so it already requires timing and intelligence to be able to blow up a merc with it.
how about disabling the laser dot? anyways, most of the times you shoot at a mine it's because you play aggro and happen to see it, not because you blow the merc up with it...
- The merc can attract spies into the mines they place or cover their mines with their own body.
nobody is talking about removing these possibilities, you could still place mines in hidden spots (oh and the 2nd use is totally noobish)
- I'm definately against what Goodkebab said about "mines have to be placed in <easy to see> spots", because if it was the case it would mean taking out the surpise elements of the mercs & mines would be far too easy to blow up against the mercs or being disabled.
mines should both be placable in obvious and less obvious spots. atm mines do a pretty bad job in stopping aggro because of chaff going through walls and because of the ability to blow them up with the ss. i can't see anything bad about mines that you can easily see but not blow up with a simple ss shot, how about just not running into them? giving people the additional choice of placing mines on the floor and in open areas is a good thing for the gameplay (and throwing mines isn't).
Quote from: Blank Man on June 08, 2008, 08:27:39 AM
Wait no more.
Incase you forgot the poll for chaff not being able to go through walls, it showed that most people don't want it to be able to. I'm saying this because you say that mines will be (in some cases) impossibly avoided. Well, the chaff not passing walls already provokes this, so why haven't you addressed that in the chaff arguement? I will give you an example of a poison that is impossible to remove/avoid in CT. In Factory, I don't recall which vent, but you drop from a height which you can't climb back up, and at the next cross section, if a mine is placed there you can't go back. The only way to survive in this case is really quickly get to a health box, or bring a mate. This idea doesn't create any new problems, you just haven't thought about it long enough.
It still escalates the problem.
A lot.
i think its really hard to kill a merc with a mine :-\
well there are tons of people out there who think the stuff you see in frag vids like snap-headshots and mine kills are common in every game XD
Quote from: Blank Man on June 08, 2008, 08:27:39 AM
Quote from: Papa Skull on June 08, 2008, 05:50:19 AM
Quote from: Blank Man on June 07, 2008, 10:30:30 PM
Quote from: Papa Skull on June 07, 2008, 05:48:12 AM
Quote from: Blank Man on June 07, 2008, 12:42:31 AM
Quote from: FR33M4N on June 07, 2008, 12:21:26 AM
Quote from: Blank Man on June 06, 2008, 10:58:37 AM
Well, if the spy can't reach the mine, the mine can't reach the spy ;) So the merc just needs to be smart where to place.
Wrong. What if a merc throws a mine into a vent, which spies have to climb into to disable, as soon as they climb up, KABOOMPOWAWUNGA, and you're dead and theres absolutely no way of disabling it via hand, you can only shoot it.
I don't recall anybody saying that chaff will be removed. And besides, maybe there will be a stealth way to enter vents, so that you can actually enter one, instead of jumping in, and not set off any mines. Think about it ;)
Take your own advice and think about it. Let's all throw mines up in the spy spawn point. Or over the barricade wall into the spy spawn. Or at a spy. Or on the ceiling etc etc etc. And don't say "bla bla bla chaff the mine bla bla". Certain zones are supposed to be safe for a spy. When you can throw mines they no longer are safe.
Idiot, get off my thread. Spawn points won't necessarily be in the mercs throwing reach. To throw a mine on a spy would take some pretty nice accuracy skills. Throwing a mine on a ceiling won't reach the spy. Don't tell me to think about things when the only thing you consider is "how do I respond with gayness/not making sense?".
zankew!
In CT maps, just go with me here, spawn points are usually open enough for a merc to at least get a frag into a spy spawn exit point. And this isn't even my main concern with your ingenious idea.
A lot of doorways lead into places with higher ceilings. If a merc can throw a poison mine 5 ft into the air and stick onto the ceiling, the spy will be absolutely unable to disable that mine in any way. Unless of course he finds a way to get around that doorway and disable it from the other side. The spy cannot taze a poison that is blocking the doorway 5 feet up, he cannot chaff it, nothing. AND, if the merc can't even throw the mine 5 feet then why the hell would you have it in the game? It's useless that way, or if you can throw it 5 feet it becomes overpowered. I'm eagerly awaiting your counter.
Wait no more.
Incase you forgot the poll for chaff not being able to go through walls, it showed that most people don't want it to be able to. I'm saying this because you say that mines will be (in some cases) impossibly avoided. Well, the chaff not passing walls already provokes this, so why haven't you addressed that in the chaff arguement? I will give you an example of a poison that is impossible to remove/avoid in CT. In Factory, I don't recall which vent, but you drop from a height which you can't climb back up, and at the next cross section, if a mine is placed there you can't go back. The only way to survive in this case is really quickly get to a health box, or bring a mate. This idea doesn't create any new problems, you just haven't thought about it long enough.
There were very few places where that could happen in CT. With your little mine throwing idea mercs will be able to completely block off many many doorways in the game. And if you hadn't noticed, doorways are important chokepoints. That's a problem. I don't think you have thought it over long enough. Believe me I've had my share of pointless arguments and I'd argue just for the sake of arguing. You seem oddly familiar, like me when I joined the forum. :D Rambo and Vega would know.
Quote from: Rambo on June 08, 2008, 03:04:53 PM
well there are tons of people out there who think the stuff you see in frag vids like snap-headshots and mine kills are common in every game XD
Well snap headshots are actually common to some players, but not really to every game. But if you get someone who uses that tactic, chances are they're going to use it on you alot.
Please, let's not get into this snap headshot discussion again. It happens way too often and no one ever wins.
@ Blankman: That poison mine where you drop from spy spawn to go to crane room can be countered....either with your mate or a chaff.
Quote from: Westfall on June 08, 2008, 06:51:27 PM
@ Blankman: That poison mine where you drop from spy spawn to go to crane room can be countered....either with your mate or a chaff.
You obviously don't know what I'm talking about. Chaff wouldn't reach, though mates could heal you, and I said that they could, but thanks for trying.
Who cares about that 1 example from CHAOS THEORY!? Come on now, think about completely blocking off a doorway with ease. That right there should convince you this idea is bad.
Quote from: Papa Skull on June 09, 2008, 12:38:14 AM
Who cares about that 1 example from CHAOS THEORY!? Come on now, think about completely blocking off a doorway with ease. That right there should convince you this idea is bad.
You can press up against one side of the door way to squeez by. Kind of taking Agent's idea with wider vents and applying to doors. And again, people have partners.
You can't always press up on a wall and go through a door. A lone spy can be completely blocked from getting through a doorway with this idea. Does any dev want to confirm if the merc reticule will flash red if a spy gets poisoned? If so, then even having a partner with you won't be that effective because it will give away your position.
Quote from: Rambo on June 08, 2008, 12:26:13 PM
Quote from: Hyrage on June 08, 2008, 12:38:55 AM
Quote from: Rambo on June 07, 2008, 11:08:48 PM
ur right that his counter points aren't that strong, but here is a very good one for you: svm is a game that requires/should require planning and carefullness, and placing mines should always take some time and some risk when a spy is around.
should we take out the guns shooting too fast? :-\
??? oO
Quote from: Hyrage on June 08, 2008, 12:38:55 AM
The spies should be able to blow up mines. The actual balance element in CT is:
- Aiming accurately a mine takes skills & time.
it's only hard sometimes because of the bad mouse implementation and around-the-corner mine placement. once again, you show us your console background where aiming takes significantly more time - I'm sorry for you if you are that bad with a controller. I mentionned skills = aiming & time = the time you need to do the action. Stop acting like a fool when you definately have nothing to say please, you only shows up how annoying your PC Fanboy side is.
- The laser dot appears close from the mine so it already requires timing and intelligence to be able to blow up a merc with it.
how about disabling the laser dot? anyways, most of the times you shoot at a mine it's because you play aggro and happen to see it, not because you blow the merc up with it... - For sure we would disable the laser dot. Even if you hide your laser, you need it to shoot the mine properly so it will appear one day or another.
- The merc can attract spies into the mines they place or cover their mines with their own body.
nobody is talking about removing these possibilities, you could still place mines in hidden spots (oh and the 2nd use is totally noobish) - Did I talked about removing anything? my bad, for the 2nd one you are definately too good for me bro, why aren't you doing this game?
- I'm definately against what Goodkebab said about "mines have to be placed in <easy to see> spots", because if it was the case it would mean taking out the surpise elements of the mercs & mines would be far too easy to blow up against the mercs or being disabled.
mines should both be placable in obvious and less obvious spots. atm mines do a pretty bad job in stopping aggro because of chaff going through walls and because of the ability to blow them up with the ss. i can't see anything bad about mines that you can easily see but not blow up with a simple ss shot, how about just not running into them? giving people the additional choice of placing mines on the floor and in open areas is a good thing for the gameplay (and throwing mines isn't). - based on CT, when you place your mine, there is a limit for the laser so, it would make no sense to place the mines on the ground, unfortunately. Placing mines in easy to see location is a waste of time if the spy can just blow it up so there must be plenty of tricky spots to place them. For the chaff through walls... it's up to UE3
Quote from: Blank Man on June 09, 2008, 12:22:57 AM
Quote from: Westfall on June 08, 2008, 06:51:27 PM
@ Blankman: That poison mine where you drop from spy spawn to go to crane room can be countered....either with your mate or a chaff.
You obviously don't know what I'm talking about. Chaff wouldn't reach, though mates could heal you, and I said that they could, but thanks for trying.
Must be talking about the drop from the objective.
All in all, your idea was not up to par. Thanks for trying, or reading other threads.
for the poison mine in main hall....
use cam to look before you jump.
Nothing is really wrong with that mine, what was overlooked by the developers is they dont let you grab the vent to return where you came from.
yeah, just use a sticky cam. sticky cams are totally underrated for mine recon...
@hyrage: i won't even answer to your bullshit. either you are totally braindead or you didn't even take the time to read my post properly.
That's why I thought network cams would be a great gadget to have. For multiple recon at the same time. But whatever, that's a diff subject.
Anyone else want a lock? Or can someone see something good to discuss here?
I don't generally like using stickies for recon, as it lets the merc know you're there, because stickies make a good amount of noise.
Good point for discussion. Should stickies make a lot of noise? I think they should only be audible from about 10 feet away. Deployment and movement noises I mean. This would encourage using them for recon as well as aggro. Maybe to cut down a bit on the aggro quick cams there should be a SLIGHT delay from firing the sticky and actually being able to shoot gas.
Quote from: Papa Skull on June 10, 2008, 10:38:28 PM
Good point for discussion. Should stickies make a lot of noise? I think they should only be audible from about 10 feet away. Deployment and movement noises I mean. This would encourage using them for recon as well as aggro. Maybe to cut down a bit on the aggro quick cams there should be a SLIGHT delay from firing the sticky and actually being able to shoot gas.
On some levels they are way more audible than others. I think it depends on what you're stickying (eg in a vent should be heard clearly cos of echo. Wall should be slightly muted, while soft stuff like the ceiling in cafe inside, even slight more muted. Just an idea.
@ papa: not sure if you said this. but what about a fixed cam which can be fired at walls, ceilings, floors maybe slightly bigger than a spy bullet than can only be used to look through.
If you could choose in the same way you choose mines that would be nice.
Quote from: Papa Skull on June 10, 2008, 10:38:28 PM
Good point for discussion. Should stickies make a lot of noise? I think they should only be audible from about 10 feet away. Deployment and movement noises I mean. This would encourage using them for recon as well as aggro. Maybe to cut down a bit on the aggro quick cams there should be a SLIGHT delay from firing the sticky and actually being able to shoot gas.
Yes, they should make noise. Otherwise the ambush cam becomes pretty much unstoppable. The noise at least gives you a brief warning that the spy might be setting something up somewhere.
Quote from: FR33M4N on June 11, 2008, 12:13:49 AM
@ papa: not sure if you said this. but what about a fixed cam which can be fired at walls, ceilings, floors maybe slightly bigger than a spy bullet than can only be used to look through.
search for it on the forum.
i always thought that i would make it equal if spies could hack mines to trigger them on when mercs walk by maybe the light on on it would blink in a different color or pattern to give aware mercs a clue to the hack
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on June 11, 2008, 06:41:16 AM
Quote from: Papa Skull on June 10, 2008, 10:38:28 PM
Good point for discussion. Should stickies make a lot of noise? I think they should only be audible from about 10 feet away. Deployment and movement noises I mean. This would encourage using them for recon as well as aggro. Maybe to cut down a bit on the aggro quick cams there should be a SLIGHT delay from firing the sticky and actually being able to shoot gas.
Yes, they should make noise. Otherwise the ambush cam becomes pretty much unstoppable. The noise at least gives you a brief warning that the spy might be setting something up somewhere.
Good point. Nowadays I only think of sticky cams being aggro tools and minor recon tools. Because that's the way they are ever talked about.
Cams should not be NEARLY as loud.