i was thinking that maybe flash bangs should be more effective because nobody ever uses them, i think that they should actually blind mercs for more than .5 sec, they should blind merc for like 3 sec at least or keep it a short effect like it is now but add some disoriantation effect and move the aiming reticule to some random place
the smoke is fine as is i guess
another thing is that when spies shoot these special nades through their gun, the nades should be programed as 'insta merc granades'
because it is lame that sometimes u shoot em and they take like 6 seconds to take effect, by that time ur already dead lol.
let me know what u think.
Quotei was thinking that maybe flash bangs should be more effective because nobody ever uses them
UUhhh...you may be alone on this one.
well if u ask me, i never use flashbangs on story mode.
maybe smoke granades should be added a teargas-like effect too.
idk, i just think there is room for improvement in those non lethal weapons.
and about the flamethrower, i actually think it would make a nice weapon for mercenary because it would be a perfect replacement for shotgun.
because its short range, it would work for clearing out ventilation shafts with the help of some flamible gas granade thrown in there (almost like the remote robot concept for SC4)
and the disadvantages would be that spies dont die instantaneously and that maybe mercs cannot disable bomb objectives by shooting the bombs with the flamethrower.
Smoke already has teargas-like effects...
Quote from: Cyntrox on December 24, 2008, 12:47:11 AM
Smoke already has teargas-like effects...
well not really, cause you can still see clear enough to shoot a spy..
oh welll..
Quotelet me know what u think.
I think you're basing your opinion on playing this game with a fraction of the players who once did, which is naturally going to lead to watered down competition.
Flashbangs were/are fine, and plenty of people have used them.
Quotei was thinking that maybe flash bangs should be more effective because nobody ever uses them,
No one ever uses flashes? Seriously? They are used in about every game I've played in.
Was I the only one that used to carry flash and chaff most of the time?
Definitely not.
Imho Flashbangs are overpowered the way they are at the moment but smoke is fine . So don't make flashes even more powerful .
What makes you say that they are overpowered?
Because if you use them correctly it is really hard to stop taz + flash = hack + run tactic or hack + taz + flash + run. You have 5 flashbangs each life which makes 20 flashbangs each game . I'd say 1 flashbang = 2-3 secs of free hack if used correctly which is 40-60 secs of free hack during 1 match. You don't need that much time of free hacking each round , 10-15 is enough because svm gets really hard only on last objective which , if your smart a bit , you would have taken a small portion before you try to take it as last .
Don't forget 20 x 2 equals 40. So 40 flashbangs per team.
Quote from: Snakebit. on December 24, 2008, 10:38:27 PM
Because if you use them correctly it is really hard to stop taz + flash = hack + run tactic or hack + taz + flash + run. You have 5 flashbangs each life which makes 20 flashbangs each game . I'd say 1 flashbang = 2-3 secs of free hack if used correctly which is 40-60 secs of free hack during 1 match. You don't need that much time of free hacking each round , 10-15 is enough because svm gets really hard only on last objective which , if your smart a bit , you would have taken a small portion before you try to take it as last .
Well, if the crosshair was centered on the hack position before you shock + flash, it's not like the merc has to see to shoot you off of the hack.
I find flashbangs are very situational. They're great against the rifle, but leave a lot to be desired against the uzi or shotgun where the ability to deter the merc from chasing you is better than just blinding him (or not because he has MT on).
mercs only n33d to lrn 2 close theyr eyz at the rigght tiem, lol
Quote from: Spekkio on December 25, 2008, 12:26:45 AM
Quote from: Snakebit. on December 24, 2008, 10:38:27 PM
Because if you use them correctly it is really hard to stop taz + flash = hack + run tactic or hack + taz + flash + run. You have 5 flashbangs each life which makes 20 flashbangs each game . I'd say 1 flashbang = 2-3 secs of free hack if used correctly which is 40-60 secs of free hack during 1 match. You don't need that much time of free hacking each round , 10-15 is enough because svm gets really hard only on last objective which , if your smart a bit , you would have taken a small portion before you try to take it as last .
Well, if the crosshair was centered on the hack position before you shock + flash, it's not like the merc has to see to shoot you off of the hack.
I find flashbangs are very situational. They're great against the rifle, but leave a lot to be desired against the uzi or shotgun where the ability to deter the merc from chasing you is better than just blinding him (or not because he has MT on).
You do have a point Spekkio , but mostly people use rifle. If they use shotgun or uzi , those weapons have their own disadvantages . Shotgun is a useless gun on most of the maps exept Bank, Orphanage and Aqua .(Imho) In other maps you just need to stay out of the range of shotgun . For example in club house you can just run in circles if your enemy has shotgun or uzi ( 1st floor / 2nd floor ) or ( 2nd floor around the garden Nd and the normal wall ) You ll be able to take the objective in 2-2.30 mins , it depends on your opponent and your knowledge how to do so . Versus uzi and shotgun THE most important thing is to not get close to your opponent and runing in circles or 'circle routes' and taz really helps with that .
About uzi , yes it is overpowered but its not that super godlike powerful.( The only things that makes it overpowered is 60 bullits clip , if you make it 30 it will just become a decent gun ) It still has that range disadvantage . It won't kill you with a headshot like a sniper would . So you can still abuse taz + hack .
Taz and flash still helps a lot against uzi though that turn during the chase might get you killed .
But coming back on topic about flashbangs . There is a reason why i said 20 not 40 . It is almost impossible for both of spies to do hack + run + flash tactics . Because those tactics require 1on1 situations and you simply don't have enought time and room to do so. If you get locked in 2vs2 than taz + hack becomes really hard.
Flash is already getting a boost in PS indirectly, because MT vision won't be super powerful and will be tougher to whore, which was honestly the biggest foil to flashbangs. If a merc constantly MT whored, he had almost nothing to worry about regarding flash.
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on December 25, 2008, 11:28:22 AM
Flash is already getting a boost in PS indirectly, because MT vision won't be super powerful and will be tougher to whore, which was honestly the biggest foil to flashbangs. If a merc constantly MT whored, he had almost nothing to worry about regarding flash.
Don't forget that the Uzi (I think we'll call it SMG or MP5, Uzi gives me a wrong idea, link: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/02/uzi-micro2.jpg - Does that look like a weapon which can also shoot frags?) will be nerved and the shotgun will be fixed.
So gadgets like these will also be used against these, and not just rifle.
Quote from: LennardF1989 on December 25, 2008, 01:18:18 PM
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on December 25, 2008, 11:28:22 AM
Flash is already getting a boost in PS indirectly, because MT vision won't be super powerful and will be tougher to whore, which was honestly the biggest foil to flashbangs. If a merc constantly MT whored, he had almost nothing to worry about regarding flash.
Don't forget that the Uzi (I think we'll call it SMG or MP5, Uzi gives me a wrong idea, link: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/02/uzi-micro2.jpg - Does that look like a weapon which can also shoot frags?) will be nerved and the shotgun will be fixed.
So gadgets like these will also be used against these, and not just rifle.
What kind of nerv will smg get ? Just decrease the clip size from 60 to 30-40 bullets and that should do the trick . Not so many bullets = more reloads = more wasted time = harder to get killed and easier to get tazed .
Quote from: Snakebit. on December 25, 2008, 03:20:26 PM
Quote from: LennardF1989 on December 25, 2008, 01:18:18 PM
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on December 25, 2008, 11:28:22 AM
Flash is already getting a boost in PS indirectly, because MT vision won't be super powerful and will be tougher to whore, which was honestly the biggest foil to flashbangs. If a merc constantly MT whored, he had almost nothing to worry about regarding flash.
Don't forget that the Uzi (I think we'll call it SMG or MP5, Uzi gives me a wrong idea, link: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/02/uzi-micro2.jpg - Does that look like a weapon which can also shoot frags?) will be nerved and the shotgun will be fixed.
So gadgets like these will also be used against these, and not just rifle.
What kind of nerv will smg get ? Just decrease the clip size from 60 to 30-40 bullets and that should do the trick . Not so many bullets = more reloads = more wasted time = harder to get killed and easier to get tazed .
Nerving can be anything ;) But that's not for this discussion. I just said it so these 2 weapons (which are rarely used/allowed to be used in CT) will be taken into account for further discussions as well, because PS won't just have the rifle.
Quote from: Snakebit. on December 25, 2008, 03:20:26 PM
Quote from: LennardF1989 on December 25, 2008, 01:18:18 PM
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on December 25, 2008, 11:28:22 AM
Flash is already getting a boost in PS indirectly, because MT vision won't be super powerful and will be tougher to whore, which was honestly the biggest foil to flashbangs. If a merc constantly MT whored, he had almost nothing to worry about regarding flash.
Don't forget that the Uzi (I think we'll call it SMG or MP5, Uzi gives me a wrong idea, link: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/02/uzi-micro2.jpg - Does that look like a weapon which can also shoot frags?) will be nerved and the shotgun will be fixed.
So gadgets like these will also be used against these, and not just rifle.
What kind of nerv will smg get ? Just decrease the clip size from 60 to 30-40 bullets and that should do the trick . Not so many bullets = more reloads = more wasted time = harder to get killed and easier to get tazed .
I think that the ROF and accuracy have more to do with the weapon's power than clip size. You can taze while being shot full-auto with the rifle; if you get caught by the uzi it's like a tractor beam.
Quote from: Spekkio on December 26, 2008, 05:01:22 AM
Quote from: Snakebit. on December 25, 2008, 03:20:26 PM
Quote from: LennardF1989 on December 25, 2008, 01:18:18 PM
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on December 25, 2008, 11:28:22 AM
Flash is already getting a boost in PS indirectly, because MT vision won't be super powerful and will be tougher to whore, which was honestly the biggest foil to flashbangs. If a merc constantly MT whored, he had almost nothing to worry about regarding flash.
Don't forget that the Uzi (I think we'll call it SMG or MP5, Uzi gives me a wrong idea, link: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/02/uzi-micro2.jpg - Does that look like a weapon which can also shoot frags?) will be nerved and the shotgun will be fixed.
So gadgets like these will also be used against these, and not just rifle.
What kind of nerv will smg get ? Just decrease the clip size from 60 to 30-40 bullets and that should do the trick . Not so many bullets = more reloads = more wasted time = harder to get killed and easier to get tazed .
I think that the ROF and accuracy have more to do with the weapon's power than clip size. You can taze while being shot full-auto with the rifle; if you get caught by the uzi it's like a tractor beam.
not necessarily true with the uzi because the uzi won't have that rehashed animation that currently exists in chaos theory.
Please create a new topic if you want to talk about the shotgun/SMG, thank you.
balance of spy gadgets in ct:
flashbang: okay
smoke nade: okay
chaff: okay though could need some fixes
sticky cam: way overpowered
camo : underpowered
alarm snares: strongly underpowered
heartbeatsensor: okay (maybe slightely op)
spy bullets: okay (maybe slightely op)
Nobody uses Flash Bangs? Seriously.......?
IMO Sticky Cams are what made Splintercell so unique, it wouldnt be the same game without them.
Quote from: Rambo on January 04, 2009, 12:29:30 AM
balance of spy gadgets in ct:
flashbang: okay
smoke nade: okay
chaff: okay though could need some fixes
sticky cam: way overpowered
camo : underpowered
alarm snares: strongly underpowered
heartbeatsensor: okay (maybe slightely op)
spy bullets: okay (maybe slightely op)
Flashbangs : Imho overpowered already . There is not much you can do against taz + flash + hack in any variations . That tactic just depends on ping a lot . If you have good ping i doubt you will be stopped .
Smoke : Smoke is okay . It does what it should do but it was weaker in Pt that small boost to its 'sleeping power' made it an okay gadget.
Chaff : Is fine . I don't want that damn pt chaff to be back . It had 10km range . You could just chaff ANYTHING you wanted off . Now at the least you need to know how to use this gadget .
Sticky : Sticky is sticky . Its not overpowered since you have gasmask . Its your damn fault for not putting it on in time or leaving it working .
Alarm snairs : A bit underpowered item . Again not used as much as others but still very good . The only problem with them is that they have only 1 way to use them . Obviously making sound or switching on alarms . The problem is other gadgets have more uses then 1 so i guess alarm snairs are a bit underpowered.
Camo : Is a good item in many maps . People just don't use it as often as other gadgets so i guess that is the reason why everyone says it is 'underpowered' but i really don't think so. How can you make this item stronger ? It would be stupid if you completely vanished with it ? How would the mercs see you then from long range ?
Heartbeat : Is perfectly fine . Nothing wrong with it , just some bug for some people. If you fix that it would be fine.
Spy bullets : I always use them . I find them better than heartbeat , if you have your mate running with disc or running away from mercs it really helps if you have both mercs tagged with bullets. The only bad thing may be about not having heartbeat is that you can't do heartbeat + cam ambush so easily as you could with heartbeat. Sensor is endless but doesn't show the merc on the map all the time but on the other hand bullets can end but if you tag the merc it shows him all the time .
P.s Mr.Sneaky aren't you that xbox super fags teammate ? What was his name again ?? Timf i think.
Thats was MrPoor, but i used to play against TimF alot. Why?
Quote from: MrSneaky08 on January 10, 2009, 06:46:27 PM
Thats was MrPoor, but i used to play against TimF alot. Why?
Well he was talking a lot how pc players were all noobs and etc . Now since some xboxers migrated to pc , it would be nice to see him playing thats all and showing how good he is.
Quote from: Snakebit. on January 10, 2009, 03:22:02 PM
Flashbangs : Imho overpowered already . There is not much you can do against taz + flash + hack in any variations . That tactic just depends on ping a lot . If you have good ping i doubt you will be stopped .
Smoke : Smoke is okay . It does what it should do but it was weaker in Pt that small boost to its 'sleeping power' made it an okay gadget.
Chaff : Is fine . I don't want that damn pt chaff to be back . It had 10km range . You could just chaff ANYTHING you wanted off . Now at the least you need to know how to use this gadget .
Sticky : Sticky is sticky . Its not overpowered since you have gasmask . Its your damn fault for not putting it on in time or leaving it working .
Alarm snairs : A bit underpowered item . Again not used as much as others but still very good . The only problem with them is that they have only 1 way to use them . Obviously making sound or switching on alarms . The problem is other gadgets have more uses then 1 so i guess alarm snairs are a bit underpowered.
Camo : Is a good item in many maps . People just don't use it as often as other gadgets so i guess that is the reason why everyone says it is 'underpowered' but i really don't think so. How can you make this item stronger ? It would be stupid if you completely vanished with it ? How would the mercs see you then from long range ?
Heartbeat : Is perfectly fine . Nothing wrong with it , just some bug for some people. If you fix that it would be fine.
Spy bullets : I always use them . I find them better than heartbeat , if you have your mate running with disc or running away from mercs it really helps if you have both mercs tagged with bullets. The only bad thing may be about not having heartbeat is that you can't do heartbeat + cam ambush so easily as you could with heartbeat. Sensor is endless but doesn't show the merc on the map all the time but on the other hand bullets can end but if you tag the merc it shows him all the time .
Flash: I think it's fine... can be avoided by using visions which are inherent to the mercs and never run out
Smoke: By themselves, they are overpowered. The only thing that makes them not is the gasmask, so basically between smoke and cams it forces the merc to take a gadget.
Chaff: Overpowered because it can go through walls. Fix the wall clipping and they're fine. I'm with snakebit that the range is perfectly fine as-is.
Snares: A bit underpowered. Should be silent to fire.
Camo: A bit underpowered. Should be more quiet (not silent) to activate.
HBS: Overpowered because it never runs out. Should drain gun's energy while using it.
Bullets: Fix the bug when used as proxy detectors and put some sort of limit on how fast/often the mercs can remove them from each other. *Alternative idea: Make bullets never wear off unless the mercs actively remove them.
Cams: Taking away the gasmask, they would be overpowered, so they force the mercs to take an equipment item.
So I guess the main fix to the problems with cams/smoke is to give the merc gasmask as part of his equipment all the time.
@Snakebit: I think taze/hack/run tactic is way too good on most maps due to a combination of very little security that locks stuff, chaff that goes through walls to take out any mines/lasers, teammate instant healing, and self regen. Flash may have something to do with it, but it's at the bottom of the above list if it does.
Lol Snakebit i think you are about 25years too late, everyone quit a long ass time ago.
Quote from: Spekkio on January 10, 2009, 06:55:37 PM
Quote from: Snakebit. on January 10, 2009, 03:22:02 PM
Flashbangs : Imho overpowered already . There is not much you can do against taz + flash + hack in any variations . That tactic just depends on ping a lot . If you have good ping i doubt you will be stopped .
Smoke : Smoke is okay . It does what it should do but it was weaker in Pt that small boost to its 'sleeping power' made it an okay gadget.
Chaff : Is fine . I don't want that damn pt chaff to be back . It had 10km range . You could just chaff ANYTHING you wanted off . Now at the least you need to know how to use this gadget .
Sticky : Sticky is sticky . Its not overpowered since you have gasmask . Its your damn fault for not putting it on in time or leaving it working .
Alarm snairs : A bit underpowered item . Again not used as much as others but still very good . The only problem with them is that they have only 1 way to use them . Obviously making sound or switching on alarms . The problem is other gadgets have more uses then 1 so i guess alarm snairs are a bit underpowered.
Camo : Is a good item in many maps . People just don't use it as often as other gadgets so i guess that is the reason why everyone says it is 'underpowered' but i really don't think so. How can you make this item stronger ? It would be stupid if you completely vanished with it ? How would the mercs see you then from long range ?
Heartbeat : Is perfectly fine . Nothing wrong with it , just some bug for some people. If you fix that it would be fine.
Spy bullets : I always use them . I find them better than heartbeat , if you have your mate running with disc or running away from mercs it really helps if you have both mercs tagged with bullets. The only bad thing may be about not having heartbeat is that you can't do heartbeat + cam ambush so easily as you could with heartbeat. Sensor is endless but doesn't show the merc on the map all the time but on the other hand bullets can end but if you tag the merc it shows him all the time .
Flash: I think it's fine... can be avoided by using visions which are inherent to the mercs and never run out
Smoke: By themselves, they are overpowered. The only thing that makes them not is the gasmask, so basically between smoke and cams it forces the merc to take a gadget.
Chaff: Overpowered because it can go through walls. Fix the wall clipping and they're fine. I'm with snakebit that the range is perfectly fine as-is.
Snares: A bit underpowered. Should be silent to fire.
Camo: A bit underpowered. Should be more quiet (not silent) to activate.
HBS: Overpowered because it never runs out. Should drain gun's energy while using it.
Bullets: Fix the bug when used as proxy detectors and put some sort of limit on how fast/often the mercs can remove them from each other. *Alternative idea: Make bullets never wear off unless the mercs actively remove them.
Cams: Taking away the gasmask, they would be overpowered, so they force the mercs to take an equipment item.
So I guess the main fix to the problems with cams/smoke is to give the merc gasmask as part of his equipment all the time.
@Snakebit: I think taze/hack/run tactic is way too good on most maps due to a combination of very little security that locks stuff, chaff that goes through walls to take out any mines/lasers, teammate instant healing, and self regen. Flash may have something to do with it, but it's at the bottom of the above list if it does.
Taz/run/hack tactic isn't just aggro . I usually use it in 1vs1 situations . And merc can't be near 2 nds all the time . You can run around in museum between 2 nds and nobody can stop you from doing it if you have good ping .You don't have to run also if you want to . You can sneak to it that works to. Taz + flash = Insta run away almost . Taz + hack = 2 secs off . You can taz every 7-8 sec . You can get 2 mins of free hack per game if you do it correctly well if you know how to do it .(In theory) The only thing that could save the nd would be locking movement detectors like in Krauser . The rest defenses (aka lasers ) are usually way to easy to bypass. Cameras could be of some help too but usually they are not that good in general.
We're both agreeing about the same problem, I just disagree that flashbangs are the root cause of this. What would you do to nerf flashbangs?
"Well he was talking a lot how pc players were all noobs and etc . Now since some xboxers migrated to pc , it would be nice to see him playing thats all and showing how good he is."
I don't like to get off topic...but for one, as Sneak said, he quit about 2 years ago. And two, he went 300-0 on Gamebattles...everyone thinks they're good until they play him and the record shows. There were a LOT of really good players, but noone outbeat Tim...he was a machine. So show a little respect...noone will ever compare to what he did on CT.
Quote from: Spekkio on January 11, 2009, 03:33:13 PM
We're both agreeing about the same problem, I just disagree that flashbangs are the root cause of this. What would you do to nerf flashbangs?
Make the flash , flash the screen less but a bit more time . It dries of slower and you don't hear anything . Don't make it , so it blinds you 100 percent(may be for 0.2 sec ) . More like flash in cod4 .
Quote from: Kurbutti on December 25, 2008, 12:45:30 AM
mercs only n33d to lrn 2 close theyr eyz at the rigght tiem, lol
Dude, all those keys on a keyboard and Ubi doesn't include a BLINK move like in Alone in the Dark? FAIL OF ALL FAILS!
yeah i think flash should be more like the flash from cod4
and i think that all the nades should be like insta nades when spy shoot em from their gun.
like in cod4 u throw a flashbang and it goes of really fast, not like in scct where u shoot a flashbang from gun to an inanimate object and it takes like 5 seconds to go off.
Quote from: Roberto1223 on January 12, 2009, 09:29:29 AM
yeah i think flash should be more like the flash from cod4
and i think that all the nades should be like insta nades when spy shoot em from their gun.
like in cod4 u throw a flashbang and it goes of really fast, not like in scct where u shoot a flashbang from gun to an inanimate object and it takes like 5 seconds to go off.
No , we don't need flashes exploding faster . That will only make them even stronger and we got 'drop by hand' for fast explosion .
no it dosent make them stronger, it makes them more effective in case you miss your shot or whatever.
and it makes them work how they are supposed to work.
u people want a better game but you dont want to improve it... wtf...
and do go on saying "urr well your idea is dumb and its not my problem that you dont have good aim"
cause i didnt even post this thread because i have bad aim i just posted it because it dosent do any harm to the game it only makes it better to have insta flashes.
This is just one of those things that wouldn't really improve the gameplay, just make it a bit different.
Quote from: Roberto1223 on January 13, 2009, 07:28:38 PM
no it dosent make them stronger, it makes them more effective in case you miss your shot or whatever.
and it makes them work how they are supposed to work.
u people want a better game but you dont want to improve it... wtf...
and do go on saying "urr well your idea is dumb and its not my problem that you dont have good aim"
cause i didnt even post this thread because i have bad aim i just posted it because it dosent do any harm to the game it only makes it better to have insta flashes.
More effective = stronger gadget . If gadget becomes more effective than it also becomes STRONGER .
We people want a better game but we can't agree to all changes . Besides it , a better game doesn't always mean that it should be improved , polishing something is also a good way of making it better . Only after that you should think about adding new stuff .
no, what i mean is:
more effective = more functional
hence more useful.
not more powerful.
making a flashbang go off when u need it to go off will blind merc when u need him to be blind, and this will save your life.
its not making the flash more powerful; the flash's harm to merc will not be modified. its function would only be corrected.
In that case you are talking about how sometimes mercs can not be blinded by flashes? Yeah, that's just collision detection issues and should be resolved/not in PS - it's a different game. :)
Quote from: Papa Skull on January 17, 2009, 07:42:01 AM
In that case you are talking about how sometimes mercs can not be blinded by flashes? Yeah, that's just collision detection issues and should be resolved/not in PS - it's a different game. :)
indeed...sucked when you wouldnt hit him in the head or feet with the chaff....but the body and the merc would be fine