In the latest poll, which ran for far too long, we had 177 votes.
- 164 wanted a pre-alpha UT3 demo release (93%).
- 5 people said no (3%)
- 8 would only like it if it wasn't buggy (5%). Of course a pre-alpha release is always buggy, so that's a bit weird xD.
Percentages are rounded, that's why it's at 101% instead of 100%.
The team discussed the possibilities and the general idea was that the builds for GamesCom were too premature to promote.
With the arrival of UDK, we're now porting over the UT3 code and adding new things while we go. I can say we have a concept of a lobby and networking already working (basic walking around in T-pose), but because we just started the porting all the anims and so on need to be re-implemented in UDK.
So while there are no UT3 pre-alpha build links here, we still hope you will enjoy our beta UDK demo when that time comes. We'll send out a mass-email to all board-members then ;-).
The next question is up and asks: Will you mostly KO or kill a Merc?
Yay I was the first one to vote in the new pole! 8) I find it hard to answer the question because part of my kill method depends on the map. I usually neck the merc, but in some cases the other choices are better. For instance, in Deftech Belew, it is more common to knock out the merc from above than to neck him. Other times you can drop a box X). Part of the plan depends on the surroundings. Sometimes it is also better to choke the merc so he does not have enough time to spawn and destroy a bomb, etc. Or other times it is good to choke so that he respawns in the previous sector. But overall, the neckbreak is the most common.
Thanks for the updates!
Quote from: CurdyMilk on January 04, 2010, 01:48:08 AM
Yay I was the first one to vote in the new pole! 8) I find it hard to answer the question because part of my kill method depends on the map. I usually neck the merc, but in some cases the other choices are better. For instance, in Deftech Belew, it is more common to knock out the merc from above than to neck him. Other times you can drop a box X). Part of the plan depends on the surroundings. Sometimes it is also better to choke the merc so he does not have enough time to spawn and destroy a bomb, etc. Or other times it is good to choke so that he respawns in the previous sector. But overall, the neckbreak is the most common.
Thanks for the updates!
welcome to the forums my nemesis <_< , but on that note with the new poll I perfer to hold the merc till my partner gets the hack , which people i notice in chaostheory don't do anymore cause they lack patience.. thus given an opening and delaying the mercs spawn time xD !
Knocking out is almost always useless, so neck break.
Quote from: AgentX_003 on January 04, 2010, 05:59:50 AM
Quote from: CurdyMilk on January 04, 2010, 01:48:08 AM
Yay I was the first one to vote in the new pole! 8) I find it hard to answer the question because part of my kill method depends on the map. I usually neck the merc, but in some cases the other choices are better. For instance, in Deftech Belew, it is more common to knock out the merc from above than to neck him. Other times you can drop a box X). Part of the plan depends on the surroundings. Sometimes it is also better to choke the merc so he does not have enough time to spawn and destroy a bomb, etc. Or other times it is good to choke so that he respawns in the previous sector. But overall, the neckbreak is the most common.
Thanks for the updates!
welcome to the forums my nemesis <_< , but on that note with the new poll I perfer to hold the merc till my partner gets the hack , which people i notice in chaostheory don't do anymore cause they lack patience.. thus given an opening and delaying the mercs spawn time xD !
Oh Agent...I have played with you many times with other names too. But I never seemed to get on your bad side with those names. Haha we have carried on plenty of healthy conversations but you just haven't recognized me as "CurdyMilk." You just over reacted to my goofing around before. Anyways I thought I would just throw that out there for your knowledge.
And one more thing to add. My favorite ways to kill the merc is shooting his mines on him. Another fun way is the grab over the ledge. So yeah I change my vote to those :)
I agree with Curdy.
Mine-kills as a spy are some of the most satisfying. Nothing like a good ol' fashioned WCW reversal.
Only thing I didn't like about them is that the game announcment never gave you credit for it. :(
We should be able to differentiate a Spy killing a Merc by triggering the Mine, or by shooting it.
Ko is mostly the way of the skilled player. Killing brings so much disadvantages later on , good to hear that demo is moving along ;D . But Koing a merc takes skill , neckbrake ( In many situations) is just for mindless buffons.
@Snakebit.
And still you have yet to tell us these reasons and situations of yours.
On topic, Ive always been the aggro spy for my team so my partner can finish his job, and holding onto the merc for a bit and killing him is the way I usually go. The only situation I can see KOing the merc being more effective, is if the area he's been KO'd in is further from the next objective than the spawn point.
So my vote goes to KILL.
Christ , the biggest bad thing about it is that merc gets a refill and if he has backpack his mate also gets a refill means mines and nades , which means you gonna die probably . Not to mention full gas mask.
If you can't capitalize in that time ( Finnish the game ) and if you leave only 1 nd left with bad combo , he will turtle in and you are not gonna win .
It is hard to play against 3 packed nds camped by 2 mercs , now add mines and nades to that and you should understand .
Most players don't have the skill to capitilize on death of merc . The 15-20 sec interval to finish MOST nds or to make a bad combo for merc to hold . Most of the time , the above is impossible also .....
On the other hand with Ko you get 5-10 seconds , during which you can probably finish the closest nd , while not killing the merc .
If you kill the merc finish atleast 2 nds or a Long nd in a sector if its possible . If you can't do that , killing is a bad thing .
I guess I'm in the vast minority of people who don't care to waste time playing a buggy ass pre-release of a game where each side only has one usable gadget and only half their moves programmed.
To devs: I strongly suggest you ignore popular opinion on this one. Whatever playable version of PS you release is going to be the first impression people have of your game. They won't care how many times you stamp "PRE-ALPHA!!!1" all over it; they are going to whine on these forums and judge you negatively for making a shitty product. It's good that you have generated a lot of interest, but you have the potential to squander it by revealing your product too soon.
Be smart and wait for a stable beta.
If we would follow their suggestions, the links would be here... And they're not.
Quote from: Spekkio on January 11, 2010, 12:48:00 AM
I guess I'm in the vast minority of people who don't care to waste time playing a buggy ass pre-release of a game where each side only has one usable gadget and only half their moves programmed.
To devs: I strongly suggest you ignore popular opinion on this one. Whatever playable version of PS you release is going to be the first impression people have of your game. They won't care how many times you stamp "PRE-ALPHA!!!1" all over it; they are going to whine on these forums and judge you negatively for making a shitty product. It's good that you have generated a lot of interest, but you have the potential to squander it by revealing your product too soon.
Be smart and wait for a stable beta.
I agree and disagree with what you say there.
Having a playable piece will instill a first impression, but that doesn't necessarily mean that people are going to bash it. I personally would look at it as a means to get an outside perspective.
Hell they've probably been looking at this stuff long enough that they no longer really have a constant eye for the little things that are easy to miss.
I don't mean anything against the quality of what you all are making. It's top notch. Though it's something we all do when we work long times on something. You grow into a routine that ultimately makes you miss simple things.
End point being, Beta now, or Beta later isn't really going to change the impression that someone is going to get. Both are meant to give the game a run for bugs. You can only fix what you know, and right now they only know what they've found.
I agree with Speks on this one. It'll be human nature for people to complain and then the devs either won't feel the need to continue or they will hide information like Ubisoft.
You can always ask what we're doing :)
I feel like ive been waiting like 5 years? is this true? have i been waitng 5 years for this mod?
Nope. About 3 years since pre-production, but only in the second year we had the release of UT3, so then the actual development started.
Quote from: Savior20061 on January 31, 2010, 09:38:16 PM
I agree with Speks on this one. It'll be human nature for people to complain and then the devs either won't feel the need to continue or they will hide information like Ubisoft.
Human Nature indeed is to complain. Yet no matter what people will complain when it comes to a Beta.
Since waiting till everything is "Fixed" for a completely stable version of it... is less of a beta, more of a final release.. with balance issues.
BUT then again, maybe I'm looking at it differently then others. I less care about actually PLAYING the game for what it's meant for, more into actually finding things that are wrong. Graphical glitches, Bugs, etc.
Instead of Balance issues like, "I was on the other side of the map of a mine and it killed me... I think the radius is a little wide".
Because there are things that nobody working on the project could fathom doing. Such as how the Midget Glitch, and Teleporting in PT (or was it CT? Pretty sure it was PT... Both?) ended up in existence.
...And hell, I just want to run around the levels... See all the work that's been done in this long wait that some people have been here since the start for (Not me personally, but I'm one who loves instant gratification. Some would say I'm impatient). Actually see the improvements that get made. That blows any "Milestone" forum post out of the water. (Don't get me wrong, I very much appreciate the milestones forum post :P)
Don't get me wrong though, I did state I did not completely disagree with Spekkio. Just that I think that my alternative is just as sound.
I got a metaphor for it. It's like if a friend, that you let borrow 100 dollars, said, "I could give you 100 dollars right now, OR... I could give you 200 dollars later (No time frame given just later)". Some would go for the 100 now, others would opt for the 200 later.
You're too damn reasonable for an internet forum. ;)
Quote from: Spekkio on January 11, 2010, 12:48:00 AM
I guess I'm in the vast minority of people who don't care to waste time playing a buggy ass pre-release of a game where each side only has one usable gadget and only half their moves programmed.
To devs: I strongly suggest you ignore popular opinion on this one. Whatever playable version of PS you release is going to be the first impression people have of your game. They won't care how many times you stamp "PRE-ALPHA!!!1" all over it; they are going to whine on these forums and judge you negatively for making a shitty product. It's good that you have generated a lot of interest, but you have the potential to squander it by revealing your product too soon.
Be smart and wait for a stable beta.
Agreed. Not only the complaints but the "suggestions" will come fast and furious. "You should have done....." type of bullshit could distract your dev team into making changes that aren't necessary or usefull. Besides like was said already, people will complain no matter what and there is already enough of that here without adding to it.
$0.02 (CDN)
Quote from: Bubbaganoosh on February 11, 2010, 09:22:28 PM
Agreed. Not only the complaints but the "suggestions" will come fast and furious. "You should have done....." type of bullshit could distract your dev team into making changes that aren't necessary or usefull. Besides like was said already, people will complain no matter what and there is already enough of that here without adding to it.
$0.02 (CDN)
Much like Spekkio's response that you quoted and I responded to I agree and disagree with what you have to say.
Comments, Suggestions, and blatant pummeling of the game are going to be there no matter what. Alpha, Beta, or finished product doesn't matter. People don't change just because you slap a different word in front of it. The Dev's have to sort out the blind suggestions of the community already here. Whereas with actual playtesting we could give real constructive criticism.
Again I must say that I'm not looking for an actual online component for a alpha build (This is my want alone, and the basis behind my thinking against the suggestions response). Though the general consensus behind any kind of pre-build of the is game so you can actually play the way it's meant compared to the finished product; that's not what I'm getting at.
The chance to see the work done in a format that you can actually play around with. Testing out their Clubhouse map to see what exactly is working and what's not. There are hundreds of things you could do without actually setting foot online. Without hacking an objective or killing a spy.
What it all boils down to is that I want to play the improvements. The advancement on what they are doing. Get a feeling that they are one step closer to the finished product with each new annoucement, rather than reading every so often that they got an Animation/Effect down. The announcements are great... they just leave a lot to the imagination, a lot to be questioned just by looks alone. A little playable demo that get's updated in the Milestones Thread would be enough to satisfy what I would want to see.
This is probably why game companies have a small group of Quality Assurance Testers. Not every game gets a beta that everyone can play. If only a small group can play, with reasoning that they are trying to find things that the dev team would otherwise not find. Then the mindless babble gets cut out. The suggestions that you say would be so Dev distracting would be cut down to a minimum.
I think our community, of which most are PT/CT-friends, will do fine with constructive criticism.
The point is IMO to minimize potential losses to our already relatively low number of fans.
The GamesCom build was nothing more than running around, doing dives and wallflips (I did about 800 per day in slomo to show it off :P), flipping through visions at specific places (some lightbeams werent set to 'invisible' when in MT or EMF vision yet) and hacking of an objective and a door-panel (which didn't reset, so had to reload :P It had a 60 sec timer for that purpose :)). Sometimes there was some climbing to show off the freeroaming stuff. That's basically it.
We will release a version when we have a bit more done. As always, I'm not saying any dates, but we are very anxious to your combined reactions already :D.
See it's things like that!
You say things like, "Oh it was just a bunch of rolling around, etc", but that is exactly what would be fun to just go and play around with.
That it'd be kinda "New" if instead of people just talking about what they have already, rather the general public could just play around with it.
Lots more work? Probably. Don't know how much time it takes to compile a version of it where you basically just do... Nothing but roll around.
But it'd be fun to play that rather than just seeing the little videos about the new stuff.
OR if you wanted a billion more times work. Make a Work in Progress version of Club House and do what they do with games like TF2 and make Developer Commentary in certain areas you can free cam to (Instead of the straight video that you already have). The difference is yours could be updated. Maybe you add a new set piece, then you add a new Audio Commentary to explain why that's there (Kinda crappy example, but the point is out there) I'm a sucker for listening to that kind of stuff, but even more fun when I can look around the level all I want.
Quote from: Cronky on February 13, 2010, 12:43:36 AM
Quote from: Bubbaganoosh on February 11, 2010, 09:22:28 PM
Agreed. Not only the complaints but the "suggestions" will come fast and furious. "You should have done....." type of bullshit could distract your dev team into making changes that aren't necessary or usefull. Besides like was said already, people will complain no matter what and there is already enough of that here without adding to it.
$0.02 (CDN)
Much like Spekkio's response that you quoted and I responded to I agree and disagree with what you have to say.
Comments, Suggestions, and blatant pummeling of the game are going to be there no matter what. Alpha, Beta, or finished product doesn't matter. People don't change just because you slap a different word in front of it. The Dev's have to sort out the blind suggestions of the community already here. Whereas with actual playtesting we could give real constructive criticism.
Again I must say that I'm not looking for an actual online component for a alpha build (This is my want alone, and the basis behind my thinking against the suggestions response). Though the general consensus behind any kind of pre-build of the is game so you can actually play the way it's meant compared to the finished product; that's not what I'm getting at.
The chance to see the work done in a format that you can actually play around with. Testing out their Clubhouse map to see what exactly is working and what's not. There are hundreds of things you could do without actually setting foot online. Without hacking an objective or killing a spy.
What it all boils down to is that I want to play the improvements. The advancement on what they are doing. Get a feeling that they are one step closer to the finished product with each new annoucement, rather than reading every so often that they got an Animation/Effect down. The announcements are great... they just leave a lot to the imagination, a lot to be questioned just by looks alone. A little playable demo that get's updated in the Milestones Thread would be enough to satisfy what I would want to see.
This is probably why game companies have a small group of Quality Assurance Testers. Not every game gets a beta that everyone can play. If only a small group can play, with reasoning that they are trying to find things that the dev team would otherwise not find. Then the mindless babble gets cut out. The suggestions that you say would be so Dev distracting would be cut down to a minimum.
I agree. Playing an offline alpha would be all I want. It would be fun to test out the basics for bugs and give constructive criticism. Plus it would be a good way to get more ideas such as maps, display, etc. when you actually get a feel for how it works. And you donââ,¬â,,¢t want to spend too much time making the alpha and get distracted from the game itself. There will always be the people who just bash it no matter what, but they must not be true fans, and you probably wouldnââ,¬â,,¢t want those people playing the game anywayââ,¬Â¦the community is small, yet it will grow with advertising and more playable modes to spread the word.
The thing with the version I mentioned is that it gets boring after 60 minutes, even when you really really like moving around like I do.
Don't fear though, we will release some semi-stable versions later that can be seen as alpha or beta. A few more things need to be put together first.
I agree with Spekkio on this one. While I understand the notion of a pre-alpha, I would be concerned about judgement too early. Get a working beta and show it off. The process is interesting to follow and should be left to the team making videos of progress (tick tock threads). Only release playable stuff when it's beta, because not everyone is in the same realm as "I want to do a wall flip this many times." People will critique right away. Get your working version, then listen to what people have to say. We talk plenty on the video threads. Don't spoil a well kept mystery.
Quote from: Westfall on February 13, 2010, 08:32:07 PM
I agree with Spekkio on this one. While I understand the notion of a pre-alpha, I would be concerned about judgement too early. Get a working beta and show it off. The process is interesting to follow and should be left to the team making videos of progress (tick tock threads). Only release playable stuff when it's beta, because not everyone is in the same realm as "I want to do a wall flip this many times." People will critique right away. Get your working version, then listen to what people have to say. We talk plenty on the video threads. Don't spoil a well kept mystery.
I understand, and as stated before don't completely disagree with what you or Spekkio said.
Let me revise my earlier statements with my current thought processes.
Pre-Alpha, Beta, I've come to the conclusion that I don't actually care for those anymore. What I was going for was actually just a demo. The tick tock threads show so much and so little at the same time that I feel as if making a suggestion in those is worse than if there was an alpha or beta out. As is what the people against this are getting at.
People react more when what they are looking at is interactive (From my completely pulled out of my ass fact). When they themselves can move and see what it is that they are able to do.
Example, I put my suggestion/opinion to the Neckbreak Tick Tock thread. Saying that it didn't look right. Putting what I thought would make it better, but with only 3 angles to go on. I don't actually know what it would look in normal gameplay. Maybe it looks perfect when you are watching it from the back. With no reply to my suggestion either one of two things happened:
A.) They read it and filed it away with suggestions
or
B.) They didn't bother to read it
Either one explains the situation that you are all getting at. I voiced a "Bad" opinion against what they did, and I didn't even play the game. The difference is, my viewpoint of it all is skewed by lack of full interactivity. The Devs also didn't get distracted going, "Oh god... Wait... You alone think that?? We're going to scrap our animation and start over".
Back to the point...
Demos... I think it would be a good idea, and something that I haven't really seen other people do (and probably wont). Compile a little demo stage that has whatever the new feature is in it. Then let people play with it. People could finish it in 10 seconds or 10 minutes, but have a higher area of judgement to actually make educated suggestions (Not... Wow... That looked crappy... and hell the quality was shit anyway).
For things such as Mr. Mic's EMF Vision Video Demonstration. People would be able to walk around and when you got to an area his voice would pop up and say the same things that it did in the video. More fun to play with when you are more in control and can take a closer look. Club house, oh the possibilities... Cause that one felt like it was a little sloppy, could of benefited from a more interaction based presentation (When you're trying to keep talking while just floating around mentioning random things... you don't get as detailed as you can).
We don't have the neckbreak in-game, so even we don't know how it's going to work out. :P
You CRAFTY Son of a Gun!
If you weren't my Father/Brother I'd seriously think about maybe writing you a strongly worded letter!
Lol, Cronky is pure awesome.
Ranking.
1. Cronky
2. Frvge
3. Mulled
4. Spekkio
5. everyone else
6. Westfall
7. Agent
8. Agent again.
Thank you... Thank you.
Hold your applause please.
I am but a man like you all... Except I glisten ever so brightly in the sun as wind blows my flowing locks to and fro.
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg709.imageshack.us%2Fimg709%2F45%2Fstrong1.jpg&hash=dac5c36b619fceb1c7296d96d3c02cfb0774273d)
There you go Frvge, your strongly worded letter.
An E. The manliest letter in the alphabet
Quote from: Savior20061 on February 14, 2010, 06:41:23 AM
Lol, Cronky is pure awesome.
Ranking.
1. Cronky
2. Frvge
3. Mulled
4. Spekkio
5. everyone else
6. Westfall
7. Agent
8. Agent again.
LOL Sorry if I make you sad.....no I'm not
BACK ON TOPIC:
Pre-Alpha Build - Pretty sure the clear answer was No
Demo Showcase - Sounds like a pretty sweet idea in MY head, but ultimately I'm guess No.
Interactive Features Showcase - Sounds like my best unoriginal idea yet! I'd bring it up with some big wig so that you could UPGRADE the Tick-Tock threads/What's on the main website into a more User Friendly (and higher quality) showing off of your stuff.
(JUST my opinion, but from my perspective I'm a genius)
Quote from: Westfall on February 14, 2010, 08:07:31 PM
Quote from: Savior20061 on February 14, 2010, 06:41:23 AM
Lol, Cronky is pure awesome.
Ranking.
1. Cronky
2. Frvge
3. Mulled
4. Spekkio
5. everyone else
6. Westfall
7. Agent
8. Agent again.
LOL Sorry if I make you sad.....no I'm not
What? I ranked you better than Agent. ;D
I really haven't been paying to the conversation as of late, but seems like Cronky wants a full length demonstration in the vein of Splinter Cell Conviction videos but without the caked on shit. I think that'd be a wonderful idea have something other than Tic-Tocks, but ultimately it goes to whether or not the modders have time for it on top of actually making the game part-time while having jobs and continuing to live their lives. As far as I can tell....they don't. :(
Quote from: Savior20061 on February 15, 2010, 04:53:48 AM
What? I ranked you better than Agent. ;D
I really haven't been paying to the conversation as of late, but seems like Cronky wants a full length demonstration in the vein of Splinter Cell Conviction videos but without the caked on shit. I think that'd be a wonderful idea have something other than Tic-Tocks, but ultimately it goes to whether or not the modders have time for it on top of actually making the game part-time while having jobs and continuing to live their lives. As far as I can tell....they don't. :(
LIVES!?!?! I care not for their LIVES.
Nah, but yeah that's about the gist of what I'm wanting. Small little Demo's that people could actually play (Which is different from just a video) that have only the feature they are showcasing.
Roll Demo: Just put a floor and a Spy
Wallflip Demo: Spy and a Wall
Motion Tracking Demo: Three moving spies (all at the critical speeds of: Still, Moving just slow enough to not be caught, and Full on sprint) and you of course.
Etc.
As for the other things though, like the Clubhouse Walkthrough. It'd just be more controllable if they let us run (or Float Cam) around. Having small small text bubbles we could activate in the vein of Valve's Developer Commentary. Voices start when we activate. Instead of straining yourself for words to keep the video from being boring. You kick the video and make us do it at our own pace. Thus letting the people who are contributing to said demo actually able to script out their lines (And have more than one person talk per Example).
Mr. Mic's EMF Walkthrough like I said before is a prime example. It was well done, far from bad, but an example of just putting what is important in.
(Also the quality of the presentation could go up Ten Fold. Since from my knowledge there is no Super High Quality versions of those videos)
LOTS OF WORK, and probably wont see the light of day unless they had someone to do that specifically.
Quote from: Savior20061 on February 15, 2010, 04:53:48 AM
Quote from: Westfall on February 14, 2010, 08:07:31 PM
Quote from: Savior20061 on February 14, 2010, 06:41:23 AM
Lol, Cronky is pure awesome.
Ranking.
1. Cronky
2. Frvge
3. Mulled
4. Spekkio
5. everyone else
6. Westfall
7. Agent
8. Agent again.
LOL Sorry if I make you sad.....no I'm not
What? I ranked you better than Agent. ;D
I know, TWICE!!! You also shoved your nose up a few cracks it seems ;)