Project Stealth

Let's see what people think about this.  Note the word *considered*

Phosphorus Grenades- They bounce and sound like Frag Grenades, so you can use them to fool spies out of coming out of hiding.  Also, when you hit a spy with one, it covers them with a sticky green material that glows on your EMT, making them considerably easier to find in the dark.  It also leaves footprints of the spy for a short period of time so you can see his path. 

Sticky Grenades- It sticks to its first object in contact and then has a 1-2 second timer before detonating.  It makes a quiet beeping noise before it blows, which can be heard by a careful spy.  A spy could tell the difference if he sees coming as well. The places it could be useful is when trying to nade a spy on a ceiling or on a pole/wall where it is very difficult to use the other type.  The merc could also try to anticipate a spy rounding a corner with a little more stealth.

This made me remind myself of the grenades in Mass Effect, when you launch a phosphorus grenade you can detonate it manually mid-air and instead of an explotion it pops a mist of phosphorus that sticks to the spy disabling his visions while he is in the mist (clogging up his vision lenses). The mist wouldn't be big perhaps half the size of the spy. Spies currently have a few tools to disable merc's equipment but the merc has non against the spy. This could even it out, sort of.

Ooo, it looks like the preliminary results are in favor of experimenting with grenades other than frags as well...

Doesn't mean it's a good idea

i like phosphorous nade idea

the sticky nade is like pointless, unless there was an option to enable sticky nade mode to the regular nades or something, i dont think it is worth having a whole new "gadget" were the only difference is that it has glue on it.

Even if sticky grenades didn't take a slot, I still can't really see how they'd be useful. Like regular grenades, except even easier to run from. What's the point here?

Stickies make it easier to control where a spy can go (ie. shooting at a vent so they can't escape) or if you want to make an extremely precise throw. For this reason, I think that it would be a good idea to have both frags and stickies, and have a hotkey to switch between them. Phosphorus grenades are a waste of time, they are easily avoided and if you're shooting it directly at a spy instead of to cover an area, you could have killed him with a frag grenade instead.

Couldn't you just shoot one into the vent? Or below the vent? Stickies seem like they wouldn't get used in 99% of games.

Phosphorus nades would probably be okay if they were all instas. Maybe make them spy trap anyone they hit, too. Regular grenades kill people but are harder to hit with, phosphorus is easy to hit but gives you less reward. Sounds good to me.

(maybe we should test this oh ho ho)

The only place I can think of (in terms CT/PT maps) that sticky nades would be useful is in a place like Aquarius where there are a bunch of overhanging rafters/vents that spies can walk on.  Like pirates room.  Getting a nade kill on a spy on those rafters would be ridiculously difficult without sticky grenades.  But even then, you COULD just barely charge the grenade so that it has an arc. 

The usefulness of the sticky grenades depends on the maps but the way I see it the maps are probably going to be similar to the maps that we've all played.  They probably will hardly be used at all.

Quote from: FarleyFan on March 31, 2010, 10:14:33 PM
The only place I can think of (in terms CT/PT maps) that sticky nades would be useful is in a place like Aquarius where there are a bunch of overhanging rafters/vents that spies can walk on.  Like pirates room.  Getting a nade kill on a spy on those rafters would be ridiculously difficult without sticky grenades.  But even then, you COULD just barely charge the grenade so that it has an arc. 

The usefulness of the sticky grenades depends on the maps but the way I see it the maps are probably going to be similar to the maps that we've all played.  They probably will hardly be used at all.

you obviously don't play the game, because I have arked  it before into the vent  not fully but enough to hit in side the edge =/. 

You obviously didn't read my post.  You can't go inside the vents I was talking about.

I see this turning out exactly like Modern Warfare 2 did, everybody moves to sticky grenades because they a) stick to people b) reach places that normal nades would bounce off of c) have a shortened fuse. The only way frags are better than stickies in that game is that you can bounce them behind corners, and you can just use a stun for that and clean up the kill anyway. I haven't read the thread, but if this was every to be considered, the sticky nades would have to have a 2x longer fuse than normal frags or everybody will move to stickies just like MW2. This would also have to be a toggle option on the frags, cause 10 grenades+backpack is a little ridiculous.

You think they will be that useful?  If they have the same fuse/blast radius I think they will be almost useless.  Maybe if they shoot in a direct line and stick they'll be kind of worth bringing.

I think a luanchable mine would be more worth it than a sticky nade. Or something that you can detonate yourself from another side of the map if the spy is stupid enough to let it stay, which is possible if they don't really see it.

But how would you know if there is a spy by it?

If you have to self detonate it then why wouldn't you just snipe them?  You are suggesting this for a long range weapon for smg/shotgun users?  Could work.

Quote from: Ion.67 on April 02, 2010, 08:46:14 PM
But how would you know if there is a spy by it?

this is the thing. You won't necessarily unless your mate tells as he's dying, or if they are hacking an objective and it's near it, or if you hearthem closeby and you think it will get them. It's a chance gadget, just like a nade or mine.

Quote from: Westfall on April 03, 2010, 05:15:54 PM

Quote from: Ion.67 on April 02, 2010, 08:46:14 PM
But how would you know if there is a spy by it?

this is the thing. You won't necessarily unless your mate tells as he's dying, or if they are hacking an objective and it's near it, or if you hearthem closeby and you think it will get them. It's a chance gadget, just like a nade or mine.

The Remote Detonated Mine makes it's pass through the forum again :) (This time in Grenade Functionality?)

Don't forget that it would work WONDERS with Spy Traps. Quite possibly the greatest Gadget Combo known to MAN if made right.

Pros/Cons
-----------

+Hard to see through Visions/in general (I expect no Beeping or blinking light)
-You don't know if a Spy is near it so it's easily disabled
+Can be combined with Spy Traps to better see where Spy is in Relation to Mine (You fell into my Trap Card)
-Easy to mess up and not kill anything because of less than atomic bomb radius of damage. Meaning that you have to manually detonate it, which can be overcompensated or uncompensated to the point of uselessness.

Questionable Attributes
-------------------------
Perhaps the mines show up on the Merc radar. Fun in a bun and lets you know where you placed them (Does not do the same for other types of mines).

To counter that... Spy Bullets put Mines on Spy's radar too for the duration. Easily able tell where these mines are (Again does not do the same for other types of mines).
--------------------

Just some thoughts I had, and I still assume this to be a mine, because a grenade sounds... Odd.

As for on topic:

Sticky grenades sound useful but only in specific situations (Ceiling in Aquarius in front of the Water Trap/Tank), making them available to people in the same way that you can use Multiple mines without bringing multiple mines would be good. Perhaps even going further as to give the option for:

-Sticky
-3 Second Detonation
-2 "  "
-1 "  "
-Contact Explosion

Give more specific options for the Frag.

Keep Phosphorus by itself because it serves a different purpose. Marking, rather than Killing. Where as Sticky Grenades hold the same end result... Explosion-y Death.

I see no reason to have stickies, or even remote grenades. Problems I see:

Stickies: Used more (MW2), simpler to use, easier to aim, vent whoring (spawn, run to the most used spy route, chuck one up there..), harder to escape.

Remote detonation: Put one on every objective in a hidden location, completely protected from spy opposition, promotes camping.

I don't believe anything the merc has should be remotely controlled, but that is just me.

Quote from: Ion.67 on April 04, 2010, 09:02:48 PM
I see no reason to have stickies, or even remote grenades. Problems I see:

Stickies: Used more (MW2), simpler to use, easier to aim, vent whoring (spawn, run to the most used spy route, chuck one up there..), harder to escape.

Remote detonation: Put one on every objective in a hidden location, completely protected from spy opposition, promotes camping.

I don't believe anything the merc has should be remotely controlled, but that is just me.

There is no reason to have them, but they are something new that isn't completely lacking in use.

The reason I said that all the grenades (Including timed/contact detonation) types were in one is so that all of them will be used. If you don't have to single one out, then the use for them can become situational. Instead of a comparison of which one is easier to use since it's unwise to take up two gadget slots for one purpose (Explosions)

I expect the sticky grenade to have a countdown period and explode like a normal frag since it's pro is that it can actually stick to places in which the normal frag may not be able to. Con would be that it's easier to run away from since once it sticks, there is no chance of it going anywhere else.

Remote Detonated Mines (I emphasize that these are still mines in my eyes, Not Grenades/Launchable, so are planted in the same fashion as other mines) are useful for traps. Saying that they will get planted somewhere that Spies wont know of will only work in the beginning. Much like playing a level now against people, you know where all the tricky spots can be. (Center Pipe on Deftec comes to mind) If there were truly a spot in which Mercs could get to but Spies couldn't disarm something from, then that is just bad design, not a flaw in the Gadget.

Remember, there are only a couple of situations in which you would KNOW the spy is near a mine. Spies should be under a similar assumption that there may be a danger that they aren't seeing. So thoroughly search the area before you just go and hack something. Any placement of the mine other than that is simply a guessing game unless otherwise used as a trap, or you would physically have to be in the same room for it to be used right.

pretty sweet ideas man, honestly, i just want project stealth to take skill and considerable thinking just like chaos theory's sVm did.

Quote from: Ambiguous Rocket on March 31, 2010, 02:44:01 PM(maybe we should test this oh ho ho)

;D

I'll probably get sick of that joke after a few years, so enjoy it while you can!

Halo reach has this thing with the grenade launcher where you just hold down the launch button to prevent it from detonating.  Then, you let go of the launch button to detonate it.  You'd have to put like a 5 second limit before you make it detonate automatically. 

Just sounded interesting since you guys were talking about remote detonated mines and stuff.