Apparantely most of the Deus Ex: HR are being spammed of how much the "leaked" game managed to satisfy people even with 12 hours of gameplay, you think Square Enix might have actually kind of succeeded more than failed with that content being leaked? And right now they are in a good position to still tweak couple of areas?
I think it was the best Demo anyone has ever unintentionally released.
You think? I think Square Enix just made a load on the leak.
My friend on the other hand, has a different view...
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Dread
Did you hear about Square Enix and the "leaked" Deus Ex: Human Revolution? I think Square Enix just earned another 1,000,000$ from that leak, everyone who got it are spamming on the forums saying how much they like it, you think Square Enix is overreacting a bit?
5 hours ago · Like · · See friendship
Sony Producer: Leaks are serious business.
5 hours ago · Like.
Dread: Understandable, but now they have most of the community commenting on it, most of them were praising the game, and since it's not that close to release date, they even have time to do more tweaks.
4 hours ago · Like.
Sony Producer: yeah but if all those people stole it once, why wouldn't they steal it again?
4 hours ago · Like.
Dread: That's up to Square Enix if they will bother making a good security feature. My only bet is to make a copy of something similiar to Battle.Net like Blizzard.
4 hours ago · Like.
Sony Producer: No it's not really up to SE. Of course they need to protect themselves but it's up to the people to choose not to be thieves, ESPECIALLY if they like the product. Do they really think stealing will help get similar titles produced later? I've never understood that...
4 hours ago · Like.
Dread: Well, I just hope that a lot of them will buy the game, I reall wish to see DX:HR strive the same way like ME2 did.
You should really tell your friend to learn the difference between theft and piracy sometime.
Oh yeah, I am pretty sure you know more than him, considering the fact that he is a Sony Producer, and his paycheck bloats every second.
+ Unless I missed something, Theft and Piracy are the same.
Stealing involves taking property. Making a copy of a file isn't stealing it any more than taking a photo of a painting is stealing it.
Ok.
I will go to your PC, download your game, delete it afterwards and not tell you.
You want to tell me that's not theft?
Uh, yeah, it's not. Like I just said. You paying attention?
How the hell is it not? You paid for it, and I just took it without you knowing?
Theft = deprivation of property.
Downloading a copy of a game from my pc does not deprive me of the game, I still have the game. If there is no deprivation of property going on then theft has not happened.
I don't know how much simpler I can make this, dude.
Now you are saying that stealing creditcard-numbers isn't stealing either, as the owner still has his number. Whereas it becomes stealing at the moment they use it to take money from you. That doesn't make sense. Everyone has been taught to respect others their property, if you take it without permission it's stealing. Taking a picture of a painting isn't stealing because usually you are allowed to do it, if not, your breaking rules, not stealing.
Quote from: Sullen Plummet on July 09, 2011, 12:28:30 AM
Theft = deprivation of property.
Downloading a copy of a game from my pc does not deprive me of the game, I still have the game. If there is no deprivation of property going on then theft has not happened.
I don't know how much simpler I can make this, dude.
Ok, when I take all your household networth from your bank, I will not use it, I will just keep it and not give you it back, then you can try and dare to tell me it's not stealing.
Quote from: LennardF1989 on July 09, 2011, 12:47:58 AM
Now you are saying that stealing creditcard-numbers isn't stealing either, as the owner still has his number. Whereas it becomes stealing at the moment they use it to take money from you.
Pretty much. If I was to tell you my number then you wouldn't instantly become a thief without using it, would you?
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 09, 2011, 12:50:14 AM
Ok, when I take all your household networth from your bank, I will not use it, I will just keep it and not give you it back, then you can try and dare to tell me it's not stealing.
See, in that case you're taking it from me and not giving it back, so I'm losing it. If you copy a game you're not taking anything from me, you're just making a copy. That's the difference.
Kinda getting bored explaining this over and over. :/
Yeah, I am bored explaining it as well.
Go to any game company, bring your laptop and show them you are torrenting their game, and good luck not getting jailed.
Sullen is right. The rest of you need a dictionary.
Of course media companies will call it 'stealing' in order to blow the issue out of proportion. The fact of the matter is that media companies will either find a way to make money in the wake of the internet, or go out of business trying to cling to copyright protection.
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 09, 2011, 01:15:21 AM
Go to any game company, bring your laptop and show them you are torrenting their game, and good luck not getting jailed.
If I go to a company and stab someone I'll probably get in trouble too, but that doesn't make that theft either.
ps your country must have some pretty harsh laws if you can go to jail for torrenting a game!
Yeah, simply and easily.
A guy got jailed for 10 years on BBC news for being caught torrenting and owning pirated and cracked versions of 3D modelling software and drawing.
Well, it was either 10,000,000£ or 10 years in prison.
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 09, 2011, 01:48:54 AM
Well, it was either 10,000,000£ or 10 years in prison.
I'd love to see this guy's face in the act of childish choosing between these two xD. <<Hym... I pick.... Option B!>>
To be honest, noone active in this community would even be able to pay everything they ever had including their kidney would be able to pay off that much.
P.S: Push, that made me giggle xD
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 09, 2011, 01:48:54 AM
Yeah, simply and easily.
A guy got jailed for 10 years on BBC news for being caught torrenting and owning pirated and cracked versions of 3D modelling software and drawing.
Well, it was either 10,000,000£ or 10 years in prison.
That's why you should always direct download the program (a demo from the company itself is good) and then crack it. If you direct download the file/crack, you can only get done for stealing a single copy of the product at best because you're not distributing anywhere along the lines.
Torrenting is dangerous.
Quote from: Tidenburg on July 09, 2011, 05:34:35 AM
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 09, 2011, 01:48:54 AM
Yeah, simply and easily.
A guy got jailed for 10 years on BBC news for being caught torrenting and owning pirated and cracked versions of 3D modelling software and drawing.
Well, it was either 10,000,000£ or 10 years in prison.
That's why you should always direct download the program (a demo from the company itself is good) and then crack it. If you direct download the file/crack, you can only get done for stealing a single copy of the product at best because you're not distributing anywhere along the lines.
Torrenting is dangerous.
Sometimes I still wonder how the hell Piratebay is still intact.
Sweden.
Hmmmmm....w00t?
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpathfinderwealth.files.wordpress.com%2F2010%2F03%2Fbrain_scratching_head_hg_wht.gif&hash=63052bafec1cf79f913935c75fd429038798d0f9)
Guys... if you use "torrents" you are automaticly in the world of a criminal (if the torrents have "stolen content"). You don't have the problem with direct downloads... WHY you ask?
Here is the reason:
DOWNLOADING is not rly a problem, as long as you don't "steal-download" it from an official site, without paying. So, if i understood it right, downloading from thiefs is not against most laws.
UPLOADING "stolen content", however is. And if you use your "torrents", then you get into trouble, because while you DOWNload something, you automaticly also UPload something. that's the whole p2p-system. And since your DL speed is very slow if you don't upload too, it is even possible to accuse torrent-users, that claim to just be "leechers".
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 09, 2011, 01:48:54 AM
Well, it was either 10,000,000£ or 10 years in prison.
All this tells me is that the punishment is more of a scare tactic than a reasonable consequence. It's like since they KNOW they can't catch everyone who jaywalks, they in turn make the punishment if they DO catch you death.
That doesn't justify torrenting in some way though, just to be clear.
This is what irks me about media companies. Everyone wants to get paid for what they do, but consider the case of a farmer who grows apples. He spends 10 years ensuring that only the best apple trees breed together, and produces a tastier and larger apple than his competitors.
You buy an apple from him and decide to plant the seeds, growing your own apple trees. You then sell these tastier and larger apples for a profit. You even continue to try to breed new combinations to make an even tastier apple.
All of this is completely, 100% legal. Now change "apple" to "digitial media" and suddenly all the rules change. If the apple was a piece of software, you could not legally make copies of it to sell for profit. You can't legally modify the software and sell it for profit (in some cases, you can't legally modify it at all). This makes no sense economically. Hell, you don't even technically own the piece of software, you only own the media on which it is stored. Why is software so special that they have innumerable laws protecting them from the normal economic forces that every other product in existance faces?
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 09, 2011, 01:48:54 AM
Yeah, simply and easily.
A guy got jailed for 10 years on BBC news for being caught torrenting and owning pirated and cracked versions of 3D modelling software and drawing.
Well, it was either 10,000,000£ or 10 years in prison.
Haha, you got a source on that? I mean, it sounds ridiculous enough to be true, but I'd still like to read more about it.
Quote from: Spekkio on July 09, 2011, 06:48:10 PM
This is what irks me about media companies. Everyone wants to get paid for what they do, but consider the case of a farmer who grows apples. He spends 10 years ensuring that only the best apple trees breed together, and produces a tastier and larger apple than his competitors.
You buy an apple from him and decide to plant the seeds, growing your own apple trees. You then sell these tastier and larger apples for a profit. You even continue to try to breed new combinations to make an even tastier apple.
All of this is completely, 100% legal. Now change "apple" to "digitial media" and suddenly all the rules change. If the apple was a piece of software, you could not legally make copies of it to sell for profit. You can't legally modify the software and sell it for profit (in some cases, you can't legally modify it at all). This makes no sense economically. Hell, you don't even technically own the piece of software, you only own the media on which it is stored. Why is software so special that they have innumerable laws protecting them from the normal economic forces that every other product in existance faces?
Agreed.
And yeah, the rule of thumb is:
downloading=bad, but not as bad as uploading
It is why sites that go out and find illegal copies for you to download are not illegal, and only the uploaders themselves are frequently in trouble.
Cops don't bust the street corners for containing hookers, they sometimes bust the Johns but the pimps themselves are the bigger fish to fry.
Quote from: Sullen Plummet on July 09, 2011, 07:45:50 PM
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 09, 2011, 01:48:54 AM
Yeah, simply and easily.
A guy got jailed for 10 years on BBC news for being caught torrenting and owning pirated and cracked versions of 3D modelling software and drawing.
Well, it was either 10,000,000£ or 10 years in prison.
Haha, you got a source on that? I mean, it sounds ridiculous enough to be true, but I'd still like to read more about it.
Somewhere on BBC news, didn't save the link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/ Scoop around see what you can find.
Quote from: Farley4Fan on July 09, 2011, 08:21:15 PMAnd yeah, the rule of thumb is:
downloading=bad, but not as bad as uploading
It is why sites that go out and find illegal copies for you to download are not illegal, and only the uploaders themselves are frequently in trouble.
Cops don't bust the street corners for containing hookers, they sometimes bust the Johns but the pimps themselves are the bigger fish to fry.
No. According to your deliberate use of the word "stealing," a word which media companies would also use to describe downloading digital media at no cost, downloading is just as bad as uploading.
Where did I say stealing Spek?
Quote from: Farley4Fan on July 10, 2011, 04:31:55 AM
Where did I say stealing Spek?
I think we need to ask our friend Frvge to make every community member here to pay 30 bucks for release of Project Stealth while he purposesly posts a torrent of it, and then you can torrent it and try to blab him smart ass bullshit words that it's not stealing, cause so far,all you guys are trying to do is use smart ass words to say that downloading a game through a torrent is not thievery -.-
It's not. It's missed income / income deprivation.
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vincentchow.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F09%2Fpiracy.png&hash=38c34bdd19a5be7da7353340b66ae9ea3c8a119d)
Quote from: Cronky on July 11, 2011, 04:47:26 AM
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vincentchow.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F09%2Fpiracy.png&hash=38c34bdd19a5be7da7353340b66ae9ea3c8a119d)
Such a troll Cronky :P
That may have been more of a funny post, but it still has a little bit of a point. Those three things in the picture are lumped together under the banner of "piracy" when each one has a obvious difference to any other one in the line. Digital media can't be STOLEN in the same sense that we imagine a TV being stolen. Downloading a game, movie, program, or etc. does not limit anyone else from legitimately buying a copy. It DOES potentially lose the developer, publisher, and distributor from money they rightfully worked for. ...Unless someone happens upon a license key that was meant for someone else, but that problem has been alleviated since the first "Crack" came out.
What I always see when this topic comes up in other places is: Do those people actually deserve the money they are making you pay for their game (assuming you aren't buying it used)? Is Duke Nukem Forever worth 60 bucks? Sure it has a LOT of work put into it, but when you play a game you don't care about how much work went into each and every piece of the game. You base it off if it's actually fun. I don't go to a restaurant, order a steak, and when it comes out more char than actual meat go "Well someone probably put a lot of work into this" and deal it with. If I wanted burnt meat I would have just tried to make it myself, for less.
Will I still buy Deus Ex even though I downloaded the leaked version? Yeah! It invested me into the game more than trailers and gameplay videos ever did (as a demo should). I'm actually curious as to where the story is going to go, and how my choices and "abilities" will be used in later levels (again, as a demo should). It's a game that seems worth paying full, new game price for so that I can play it when it first comes out, rather than waiting till it hits a bargain bin.
Will I buy Duke Nukem Forever? Probably not till steam has it on sale for like 5 bucks.
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 09, 2011, 01:15:21 AM
Yeah, I am bored explaining it as well.
Go to any game company, bring your laptop and show them you are torrenting their game, and good luck not getting jailed.
LOL, they could just suck my dick. Getting jailed for pirating games n1 joke. ;D I know a guy who uploaded more pirated gigabytes than your hdd's size, after all he had to pay a lot of money. :>
Quote from: Tidenburg on July 09, 2011, 05:34:35 AM
Torrenting is dangerous.
Actually it's not, you need Peerguardian and brain.
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 09, 2011, 01:48:54 AM
Yeah, simply and easily.
A guy got jailed for 10 years on BBC news for being caught torrenting and owning pirated and cracked versions of 3D modelling software and drawing.
Well, it was either 10,000,000£ or 10 years in prison.
I don't really believe in such a news and I don't care it's BBC, media lies so much. Actually without pirated proffessional software is good for young people, they can learn a program that they will probably work with in future. Well, sharing that is still illegal :/
Quote from: KnoogeR on July 11, 2011, 08:43:49 PM
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 09, 2011, 01:15:21 AM
Yeah, I am bored explaining it as well.
Go to any game company, bring your laptop and show them you are torrenting their game, and good luck not getting jailed.
LOL, they could just suck my dick. Getting jailed for pirating games n1 joke. ;D I know a guy who uploaded more pirated gigabytes than your hdd's size, after all he had to pay a lot of money. :>
Quote from: Tidenburg on July 09, 2011, 05:34:35 AM
Torrenting is dangerous.
Actually it's not, you need Peerguardian and brain.
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 09, 2011, 01:48:54 AM
Yeah, simply and easily.
A guy got jailed for 10 years on BBC news for being caught torrenting and owning pirated and cracked versions of 3D modelling software and drawing.
Well, it was either 10,000,000£ or 10 years in prison.
I don't really believe in such a news and I don't care it's BBC, media lies so much. Actually without pirated proffessional software is good for young people, they can learn a program that they will probably work with in future. Well, sharing that is still illegal :/
How would you know what's lies and what's not? And how do I know that your friend even exists?
Quote from: KnoogeR on July 11, 2011, 08:43:49 PM
Quote from: Tidenburg on July 09, 2011, 05:34:35 AM
Torrenting is dangerous.
Actually it's not, you need Peerguardian and brain.
Funny, because only people without brains and a massive misunderstanding of how torrenting works think peer gaurdian works.
Direct download everything. If you HAVE to use a torrent, public is probably the worst way you could go.
Quote from: Tidenburg on July 11, 2011, 09:29:17 PM
Funny, because only people without brains and a massive misunderstanding of how torrenting works think peer gaurdian works.
Direct download everything. If you HAVE to use a torrent, public is probably the worst way you could go.
Actually I didn't say if you're using peerguardian then you're 100% safe, I don't even remember when I used torrent last time... it's probably more than 2years now. I don't even direct download so much, no sense in doing that.
Quote from: Cronky on July 11, 2011, 07:39:21 PM
That may have been more of a funny post, but it still has a little bit of a point. Those three things in the picture are lumped together under the banner of "piracy" when each one has a obvious difference to any other one in the line. Digital media can't be STOLEN in the same sense that we imagine a TV being stolen. Downloading a game, movie, program, or etc. does not limit anyone else from legitimately buying a copy. It DOES potentially lose the developer, publisher, and distributor from money they rightfully worked for. ...Unless someone happens upon a license key that was meant for someone else, but that problem has been alleviated since the first "Crack" came out.
What I always see when this topic comes up in other places is: Do those people actually deserve the money they are making you pay for their game (assuming you aren't buying it used)? Is Duke Nukem Forever worth 60 bucks? Sure it has a LOT of work put into it, but when you play a game you don't care about how much work went into each and every piece of the game. You base it off if it's actually fun. I don't go to a restaurant, order a steak, and when it comes out more char than actual meat go "Well someone probably put a lot of work into this" and deal it with. If I wanted burnt meat I would have just tried to make it myself, for less.
Will I still buy Deus Ex even though I downloaded the leaked version? Yeah! It invested me into the game more than trailers and gameplay videos ever did (as a demo should). I'm actually curious as to where the story is going to go, and how my choices and "abilities" will be used in later levels (again, as a demo should). It's a game that seems worth paying full, new game price for so that I can play it when it first comes out, rather than waiting till it hits a bargain bin.
Will I buy Duke Nukem Forever? Probably not till steam has it on sale for like 5 bucks.
+1
The definition of stealing involves taking someone's property without permission. In the case of downloading media, you are taking something with the implied permission of the person sharing the media. The only person's permission you don't have is the one who made the game, but they already sold it to customers. Then media companies retort by saying that buyers don't actually own the media; they only own that specific storage device (eg, DVD, CD, etc). Next, media companies point to convoluded user agreements saying "see, he agreed that he doesn't actually own our software or get to share it with anyone; he just gets to use it!."
Additionally, you kind of hit around the point that if game developers sold their products at the real market price, the people who try to turn a profit from piracy wouldn't be able to. There is a price point where the vast majority of the population would rather purchase a legitimate copy of the media rather than take their chances with a $5 home burnt DVD/CD. Clearly $25 for a new release Blu-Ray and $60 for video games is too high and makes piracy highly desirable. Perhaps $10 per Blu-Ray and $40 per video game would make piracy much less desirable.
I think I know why you disagreed with what I said Spek, you misunderstood me. I meant bad, as in illegal. Not immoral or "stealing". I don't think it's wrong. The suits will hit uploaders harder than downloaders, that's all I was saying.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Qkyt1wXNlI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Qkyt1wXNlI)
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 11, 2011, 12:27:21 PM
Such a troll Cronky :P
He's educating you.
Take your education, boy. Take itttttttt.
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 08, 2011, 05:46:34 PM
My friend on the other hand, has a different view...
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Dread
Did you hear about Square Enix and the "leaked" Deus Ex: Human Revolution? I think Square Enix just earned another 1,000,000$ from that leak, everyone who got it are spamming on the forums saying how much they like it, you think Square Enix is overreacting a bit?
5 hours ago · Like · · See friendship
Sony Producer: Leaks are serious business.
5 hours ago · Like.
Dread: Understandable, but now they have most of the community commenting on it, most of them were praising the game, and since it's not that close to release date, they even have time to do more tweaks.
4 hours ago · Like.
Sony Producer: yeah but if all those people stole it once, why wouldn't they steal it again?
4 hours ago · Like.
Dread: That's up to Square Enix if they will bother making a good security feature. My only bet is to make a copy of something similiar to Battle.Net like Blizzard.
4 hours ago · Like.
Sony Producer: No it's not really up to SE. Of course they need to protect themselves but it's up to the people to choose not to be thieves, ESPECIALLY if they like the product. Do they really think stealing will help get similar titles produced later? I've never understood that...
4 hours ago · Like.
Dread: Well, I just hope that a lot of them will buy the game, I reall wish to see DX:HR strive the same way like ME2 did.
I bold the part that we've talked about before. Battle.Net like "Security" wouldn't work for a Single Player game like it does with blizzard's wave of -crafts and Diablo. Yes, they have Single Player components like Deus Ex will, but the purpose of battle.net back then was to stop people from using the important feature of the game... Online.
Ubisoft has made a Single Player equivalent to Battle.Net with their "Connect to our server while you play the game", and everyone hated it. Some because you needed a constant connection to the internet to play, others because when Ubisoft's servers went down... so did everyone's ability to play their legitimately paid for game. Granted that isn't the only way they could have done that particular check to see if you were all legit, but it was the closest thing that compares to Blizzard's Battle.Net stuff.
What you mean it wouldn't work?
On Starcraft II, before you are allowed to play Offline mode, you HAVE to log in at least once every so often. Same thing can be applied.
Don't games already do that with verifying your license key online? How will that protect Deus Ex more than any other game out there?
What happens to people who have spotty or no connection to the internet? (A very small minority, yes, but that doesn't stop said person from buying a game, a single player one at that, from a store)
Quote from: Cronky on July 13, 2011, 01:13:14 AM
Don't games already do that with verifying your license key online? How will that protect Deus Ex more than any other game out there?
What happens to people who have spotty or no connection to the internet? (A very small minority, yes, but that doesn't stop said person from buying a game, a single player one at that, from a store)
The thing about Battle.net is being checked all the time.
If you don't log on for a week or 2, you are asked to log on before you can go offline to play.
Also the internet connection does not matter if it's good or not, because when you are playing Solo, it doesn't use any internet at all.
It still sounds like the same thing, and on top of that it wouldn't help in calming the tide of piracy that would inevitably be all up on the game. Why? Because there is ONLY Single Player. Blizzard knows that if you're buying Starcraft 2 that you're most likely NOT buying it strictly for the Single Player campaign. Their majority is going to be in for the Online multiplayer. When you're already online it's easy to check and see if you're playing Legit.
Deus Ex, or any Single Player only game, doesn't have that convenience for a video game company. Since WHY should I, as a paying customer, HAVE to go online to play my purely single player game. I didn't buy it with the thought of "Oh boy! I get to go online with this game!", so forcing me to go online to do checks is an inconvenience. Yes, most will understand a one time license check. The same as anyone who goes to a theater wouldn't be bothered by a guy waiting to check your ticket to get in. If that same guy came into the movie you were seeing every 30 minutes to check your ticket, you'd probably get pissed that he's ruining your experience that you paid for.
It's pretty much what Frvge sig alludes to. Treating your customer's like pirates simply because you're trying to combat piracy doesn't work. DRM, and things like it, only really inconveniences the actual customer, not the person who downloads the crack. In some cases legit customers will use these same means to ESCAPE the bars that are meant for those who are stealing the game. Ubisoft is the prime example again with their idea on a Single Player DRM. Again, it's not perfect. It's trying to strongarm piracy out by forcing multiple checks on an outside variable, which works to a degree, but mostly just punishes those who bought the game by forcing the same restrictions. Is there another option that is actually effective though? Not that I've heard of yet, and license checking multiple times doesn't quite seem to be a viable answer either.
Course that's all assuming that piracy hurts the video game (or any other) industry as much as people "in the loop" make it seem. Yes, they lose a lot of potential money. I'm sure some games lose millions of dollars, but then the same level of games (The Witcher 2) and companies (Good Old Games) release stuff without DRM and everything is going on just fine. Yes, Witcher 2 had DRM intitially, but it was taken off by it's first patch days after it's release. Since that's what DRM is there for, initial profits, not long-term. Game companies don't care if their game isn't making money 5 years, and 3 games down the road. It's mostly about the first month(s), or even week(s), that will determine whether the game was a success or not.
Bioware showed, how to do it right.
Mass Effect 1 had SecuRom. (You could only install it 3 times, later 5 times)
-> Bioware realized that this was the wrong way.
Mass Effect 2 had no "limited installations"/"internet as reqiremen" (aside from standard DVD protection(s))
-> People buyed it, because they were happy about Bioware being so fair with this great singleplayer game
Exactly. Strict DRM is a dying fad because game companies are learning that their actual customers are the only ones that are punished by it. If your product is worth the money it costs to purchase, then people will buy it. Maybe not ALL people, but the majority will stay on the side of people purchasing rather than pirating.
I thought the Assassins Creed 'DRM' was pretty clever. It doesn't matter if you have 'patchy' internet, because it only requires a connection sometimes to download the missing pieces (iircc). We're moving into a time when most people have internet, even moreso if they also have a gaming PC. I bet even less than a point of a percent of people who are hardcore PC gamers also don't have internet...
About the UBI servers going down, taking the whole game down. Isn't that exactly what Steam does?
Quote from: Tidenburg on July 13, 2011, 12:45:42 PMAbout the UBI servers going down, taking the whole game down. Isn't that exactly what Steam does?
For multiplayer that counts for all "online-server based online games"
However for singleplayer there is this little thing in steam, called "offline mode", that doesn't exist in Ubi's game launcher.
Quote from: Tidenburg on July 13, 2011, 12:45:42 PM
I thought the Assassins Creed 'DRM' was pretty clever. It doesn't matter if you have 'patchy' internet, because it only requires a connection sometimes to download the missing pieces (iircc). We're moving into a time when most people have internet, even moreso if they also have a gaming PC. I bet even less than a point of a percent of people who are hardcore PC gamers also don't have internet...
Assassins Creed's DRM was clever. It had complaints because you may not have always NEEDED a connection, but because you never knew when you had to have one. Downloading these little pieces, even if you were never shown, and server side "Patchy"-ness ultimately got customer attention. Why is the paying customer having to be held back from content when pirates of the game, who the DRM is for, bypass it altogether?
As for the percentage point of hardcore players that don't have internet... Yes, that percentage is getting small, but that in no way means that game companies (big ones that is) will just shun them because they "haven't gotten with the times". It doesn't even matter if you're hardcore or not though as anyone who has 60 dollars can buy a brand new game. If they happen to have a computer that can run said game (whether for school, work, friend, etc.), but no internet, then why should they be not able to play?
It's the same reason why physical media versions of our games/movies/books/music wont go away even though digital distribution is better for both publisher and customer.
Quote from: Cronky on July 13, 2011, 06:30:51 PM
Quote from: Tidenburg on July 13, 2011, 12:45:42 PM
I thought the Assassins Creed 'DRM' was pretty clever. It doesn't matter if you have 'patchy' internet, because it only requires a connection sometimes to download the missing pieces (iircc). We're moving into a time when most people have internet, even moreso if they also have a gaming PC. I bet even less than a point of a percent of people who are hardcore PC gamers also don't have internet...
Assassins Creed's DRM was clever. It had complaints because you may not have always NEEDED a connection, but because you never knew when you had to have one. Downloading these little pieces, even if you were never shown, and server side "Patchy"-ness ultimately got customer attention. Why is the paying customer having to be held back from content when pirates of the game, who the DRM is for, bypass it altogether?
As for the percentage point of hardcore players that don't have internet... Yes, that percentage is getting small, but that in no way means that game companies (big ones that is) will just shun them because they "haven't gotten with the times". It doesn't even matter if you're hardcore or not though as anyone who has 60 dollars can buy a brand new game. If they happen to have a computer that can run said game (whether for school, work, friend, etc.), but no internet, then why should they be not able to play?
It's the same reason why physical media versions of our games/movies/books/music wont go away even though digital distribution is better for both publisher and customer.
What the hell is a definition of a hardcore gamer?
From what I gathered: Someone who buys a game (in this case for PC) with full knowledge that their system, that they've invested money in specifically for gaming, can handle it.
The definition changes each time it's used though. I can be a hardcore gamer if I can get to World 8 in Super Mario 3 in 5 minutes also. Double Warp Whistle!!
Quote from: Cronky on July 13, 2011, 06:47:36 PM
From what I gathered: Someone who buys a game (in this case for PC) with full knowledge that their system, that they've invested money in specifically for gaming, can handle it.
The definition changes each time it's used though. I can be a hardcore gamer if I can get to World 8 in Super Mario 3 in 5 minutes also. Double Warp Whistle!!
For some reason 2010 and 2011 would have been the worst years to be a hardcore gamer, the only thing I am seeing is, Skryim, DX:HR and 2 of the SC's Expansions :(...Gosh, horrible.
2010 was pretty good for hardcore gamers. Ketsui and Daioujou got emulated, yeeeeeeeeeah.
though tbqh 2010 was also a bad year for hardcore gamers because every year is a bad year for them because they think of themselves as hardcore gamers. seriously people who do that need to stop it's kinda sad. like damn.
Forcing people to validate their media content on the internet is a poor business decision; it restricts the pool of possible buyers to those who have internet.
I know that you guys are saying this with largely PC video games in mind, but video games aren't the only thing subject to piracy.
Quote from: Cronky on July 13, 2011, 10:38:20 AM
Exactly. Strict DRM is a dying fad because game companies are learning that their actual customers are the only ones that are punished by it. If your product is worth the money it costs to purchase, then people will buy it. Maybe not ALL people, but the majority will stay on the side of people purchasing rather than pirating.
And when your product is overpriced, media companies think it's a better investment to pursue legislation and innovative copy protection rather than lower your price point.
Quote from: Spekkio on July 14, 2011, 01:07:34 AM
Quote from: Cronky on July 13, 2011, 10:38:20 AM
Exactly. Strict DRM is a dying fad because game companies are learning that their actual customers are the only ones that are punished by it. If your product is worth the money it costs to purchase, then people will buy it. Maybe not ALL people, but the majority will stay on the side of people purchasing rather than pirating.
And when your product is overpriced, media companies think it's a better investment to pursue legislation and innovative copy protection rather than lower your price point.
I actually never thought DX:HR will start at 60.00$ on Amazon, ridicilous, but worth it.
Quote from: Spekkio on July 14, 2011, 01:07:34 AM
Quote from: Cronky on July 13, 2011, 10:38:20 AM
Exactly. Strict DRM is a dying fad because game companies are learning that their actual customers are the only ones that are punished by it. If your product is worth the money it costs to purchase, then people will buy it. Maybe not ALL people, but the majority will stay on the side of people purchasing rather than pirating.
And when your product is overpriced, media companies think it's a better investment to pursue legislation and innovative copy protection rather than lower your price point.
Seems like it'd be quite hard to explain to a business person that making their product cost less than the current standard would make them more money (potentially) then just dropping it into a money pit to fight piracy, but keep the current price.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/3689-Microtransactions
Free2Play games come to mind, and that video says it well. Selling convenience is what these types of games are a good way to "Sell" these types of games. Explaining to a business oriented person that a person that plays your game for free should have access to all the content that a paying person gets is mind blowing because they have to ask the big question of "Why would anyone pay for something you can get for free?"
Parallels a bit with this topic because of what you said before Spekkio. At that certain price point, people would buy a game rather than risk acquiring it illegally. To a business person though, "Why would a pirate pay for our product, granted that it now costs less, that they would normally just get for free?"
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 14, 2011, 01:45:18 PM
I actually never thought DX:HR will start at 60.00$ on Amazon, ridicilous, but worth it.
I have no clue why you thought that... granted I know that sometimes certain places (like amazon) have some kind of discount, or that PC games usually cost less than Console, but assuming a triple A title wouldn't sell for 60 dollars is kinda a crazy thought in my mind.
Quote from: Cronky on July 15, 2011, 07:11:17 PM
Quote from: Spekkio on July 14, 2011, 01:07:34 AM
Quote from: Cronky on July 13, 2011, 10:38:20 AM
Exactly. Strict DRM is a dying fad because game companies are learning that their actual customers are the only ones that are punished by it. If your product is worth the money it costs to purchase, then people will buy it. Maybe not ALL people, but the majority will stay on the side of people purchasing rather than pirating.
And when your product is overpriced, media companies think it's a better investment to pursue legislation and innovative copy protection rather than lower your price point.
Seems like it'd be quite hard to explain to a business person that making their product cost less than the current standard would make them more money (potentially) then just dropping it into a money pit to fight piracy, but keep the current price.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/3689-Microtransactions
Free2Play games come to mind, and that video says it well. Selling convenience is what these types of games are a good way to "Sell" these types of games. Explaining to a business oriented person that a person that plays your game for free should have access to all the content that a paying person gets is mind blowing because they have to ask the big question of "Why would anyone pay for something you can get for free?"
Parallels a bit with this topic because of what you said before Spekkio. At that certain price point, people would buy a game rather than risk acquiring it illegally. To a business person though, "Why would a pirate pay for our product, granted that it now costs less, that they would normally just get for free?"
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 14, 2011, 01:45:18 PM
I actually never thought DX:HR will start at 60.00$ on Amazon, ridicilous, but worth it.
I have no clue why you thought that... granted I know that sometimes certain places (like amazon) have some kind of discount, or that PC games usually cost less than Console, but assuming a triple A title wouldn't sell for 60 dollars is kinda a crazy thought in my mind.
Actually it dropped heavily, standard edition now is only 30£, but I am going for the Collector's Edition, 80£, which is like 100$?
That's some odd price differences. Perhaps just because it's convenient in Euros, but that's pretty steep in price.
I'll have to look up the Collectors edition. I'd hope it has something badass in it to make more than double the double the price worth it.
Quote from: Cronky on July 15, 2011, 08:26:17 PM
That's some odd price differences. Perhaps just because it's convenient in Euros, but that's pretty steep in price.
I'll have to look up the Collectors edition. I'd hope it has something badass in it to make more than double the double the price worth it.
It says it has 40 page comic, action figure, EXCLUSIVE MAPS and WEAPONS :)
That better be one badass action figure and comic (not just a concept art book), cause Maps and Weapons wouldn't make me want to pay that much.
Cronky...were talking about Deus Ex here?
Yeah, I'm looking at the price difference and judging that. Deus Ex is great, but that doesn't make me blindly hand over money. From 30 to 80 is a BIG leap. The game is what I'm going to enjoy. The action figure and comic will be cool, but the spark of joy will fade soon after (like 1 read through of the comic). Trying to justify paying more than double the games price simply for those things is outrageous in my eyes.
Maps and Weapons are even less worth it. What will the maps be exactly? It wont be anything hugely significant to the story considering that people would make a riot if they left something huge out except to those that gave them the most money. Weapons though... I didn't shoot when I played, except for at the VERY start and at the boss (In other words... when I HAD to). So having an extra weapon means nothing to me when the only weapon I need are my FISTS OF JUSTICE!!!
Quote from: Cronky on July 15, 2011, 08:50:44 PM
Yeah, I'm looking at the price difference and judging that. Deus Ex is great, but that doesn't make me blindly hand over money. From 30 to 80 is a BIG leap. The game is what I'm going to enjoy. The action figure and comic will be cool, but the spark of joy will fade soon after (like 1 read through of the comic). Trying to justify paying more than double the games price simply for those things is outrageous in my eyes.
Maps and Weapons are even less worth it. What will the maps be exactly? It wont be anything hugely significant to the story considering that people would make a riot if they left something huge out except to those that gave them the most money. Weapons though... I didn't shoot when I played, except for at the VERY start and at the boss (In other words... when I HAD to). So having an extra weapon means nothing to me when the only weapon I need are my FISTS OF JUSTICE!!!
....Shut up Cronky...DEUS EX!
When did you become such a DX fanboy anyway?
You fucking kidding me!?
ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!
YOU FUCKING FUCKING KIDDING ME?!
I was DX Fanboy ever since it came out, fuck I am still playing DX1, and still not getting bored of it ¬¬
Summet...I hope you die...
(P.S. the hope you die is a joke, was just creating an intense feeling :))
You sure seem to have stepped it up recently though.
But whatever.
Quote from: Sullen Plummet on July 15, 2011, 11:33:20 PM
You sure seem to have stepped it up recently though.
But whatever.
In other news, since people seem to love DX:HR, another game I am looking forward to now and I will add to my list.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuIYBYoqhyk&feature=feedu
I will let you find out on your own <3 Seriously guys, this is the shit of the sandbox!
I didn't play the first one. I sided with Infamous when the battle of the super hero sandboxes came out. I know the games are widely different now, but since I didn't play Prototype 1 I don't feel a need to play #2.
I played Prototype 1 and now I don't feel the need to play Prototype 2 or Prototype 1.
Quote from: Farley4Fan on July 16, 2011, 04:47:51 AM
I played Prototype 1 and now I don't feel the need to play Prototype 2 or Prototype 1.
I know how you feel, Prototype was a let down, poor controls on some of the cool moves, graphic popping, quite boring quests, AI juggles you with attacks.
But this one does show a huge improvement, I really, really see huge potential in the tentacle fights, they look really great.
They need to make a spiderman game where you can do that, I think.
EDIT:
+ Notice, it's a 18+ game, so that means there are no restrictions, and the gore is great.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darksiders_2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc1CwyXYvTY&feature=feedu <--------------
Anyone? At first I thought this was Darkstalkers like the anime, but this is soooooo cool!
Haven't played the first one...but tempted to Amazon it.
Quote from: DreadStunlock on July 19, 2011, 07:20:09 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darksiders_2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc1CwyXYvTY&feature=feedu <--------------
Anyone? At first I thought this was Darkstalkers like the anime, but this is soooooo cool!
Haven't played the first one...but tempted to Amazon it.
I have beaten the first one. I thought it was great. It's a lot like Zelda, with a god of war lite combat system.
Agree with Justus. One of the most underrated games this gen. I felt it had a great ending too.
You guys now really want me to get the first one too QQ, I just love the Death Knight feel :) OOOOMAAHGOOOD, Darksiders here I come!