This idea was ripped off from a previous thread where no one paid any attention to it. I gave it some thought and ran into the conclusion that this could replace the poison mine or even be a fourth mine type.
Compared to a proxy mine, it has the advantage of being silent and not giving out any light (the only way to spot it in a dark environment is thermal vision), which forces the spies to pay even more attention. On the other hand, the merc has to set it off manually and deal with a 1 sec detonation delay in order to kill a spy. I was thinking about the same damage/kill zone that the proxy has in CT. In addition the merc would have to be in signal range for the the mine to be functional and the mine would let off a beep (a silent one) every time the merc went in or out of the range. The mine is removable/shootable just like any other mine.
"You rang, sir?"
It's a nice idea, but it will take away all the control you would have with a normal mine. Because, you have to stand next to it (or keep it in your view) to activate it. Which means you cant go to the other part of a level without losing sight of it, and seeing who tries passing it.
It won't give you any advantage as a merc.
I disagree, lets use the map in Splinter Cell called 'Cinema' as an example. Top level floor someone comes running through and from far away you seem the run to an objective, now lets say you have one of these in there you could blow it up from afar and it would be easier since there's no sound or light.
But then again, if a spy is running a proxy would do the job just as well, and better since you don't have to activate it, and if a spy is going slow it's highly unlikely the mine would still be there when you come to check, I'm not sure the idea would work to be honest :(.
Then maybe give it a bigger blast radius than a normal proxy and no detonation delay. It could be a real bugger for spies in a map like museum. Instead of spies triggering all the proxies unharmed, the merc could just blow the mine to the spy's face right when he comes to the kill zone. The mine would also work well with camnet. It takes skill but that's the point after all.
Actually I changed my mind :D, I think your right. I think maybe we should all vote to see if this ever gets in a early beta test as a fourth mine, as actually it would make for some very rewarding kills and your not forcing anyone to take it, I think it could be a sucess :P.
And when we take remote hacking, it's all balanced again, no more blowing up when trying to hack :P
perhaps some day (not soon) remote hacking will be a reality
I like this idea, something that could work well with camnet.
I like the one second delay because:
Spy runs up to mine
Merc presses detonate
Spy detaches mine
Spy teabags
I really like that idea, I think it should be implemented, or at least tested!
Yes, the remote mines should detonate even when a spy has detached it.
That'd be funny! Wait for the spy to think its a proxy and he detaches it. Wait for him to meet up with his partner and boom!
Testing it wont be a problem, making something remote isn't hard.
My only problem is giving more importance to the second/third most important merc item where the item balance is already pretty screwed up.
If only we could move it to the spy trap and instead of blowing up, it would tag the spy...
call me a cynic, but i can't see the point. it has absolutely no advantage besides no sound(/light, aggro spies can run around with thermal anyways), it's bad against rushing spies (as you will be shocked while they are running through your mines half of the time), especially with chaff not working through walls.
if you want it to be used, it would have to have a way bigger explosion radius and shouldn't be destroyable with ss, which makes it op at objectives.
besides, mines are already overused and quite versatile. i don't even like the poison mine, why add a 4th type?
remote hacking?? maybe we can think about stuff like this in 2 years...
I can't really see a use for it myself. If you're currently watching the area, then you can just shoot the spy yourself. If you're not watching the area, you won't be able to detonate the mine.
But hey, if we combine it with kebab's insta-throw mine idea, we can all have fun playing Goldeneye v2.0 ;D.
Overstatement also brings up a good point: Mines are already arguably one of the most useful items in the game, why buff them further? The other items should be brought up to speed before you consider adding more versatility and use to mines.
Buffing mines in this way, might take rushes out of the game or at least have it be a risk. If you're too slow to catch a Spy, go to Camnet and detonate the mine when the Spy runs past (which you see on camnet).
I think it can make for nice strategies and a new form of mine usage/placement.
Why are we trying to stop agro? I thought we were aiming for variation of gameplay....
Aggro is still possible, but maybe a bit more risky. Not a bad thing.
Aggro is already risky as it is. Against a good merc it can be quite ineffective for anything other then buying your teammate some time.
Quote from: psyichic on November 18, 2007, 06:05:02 PM
Aggro is already risky as it is. Against a good merc it can be quite ineffective for anything other then buying your teammate some time.
Yeah .. but if you try playing online in a FFA server right now, the spies will most likely be aggro as hell, which should be balanced out a bit.
Quote from: Gawain on November 18, 2007, 04:40:42 PM
remote hacking?? maybe we can think about stuff like this in 2 years...
I didn't know you were part of the team.
Quote from: psyichic on November 18, 2007, 06:05:02 PM
Aggro is already risky as it is. Against a good merc it can be quite ineffective for anything other then buying your teammate some time.
I mean 'rushing tactics' with 'aggro' currently. This mine would be good vs careless rushing. These probably suck in normal 'aggro confrontation' scenarios, because the Merc first needs to enter Camnet => vulnerable.
Its a pity I gave this idea... Its crapy...why ? Cause its stupid when you can sit with your camnet and wait till spies get in range of this device. Thats completely wrong direction.
Quote from: frvge on November 18, 2007, 05:45:28 PM
Buffing mines in this way, might take rushes out of the game or at least have it be a risk. If you're too slow to catch a Spy, go to Camnet and detonate the mine when the Spy runs past (which you see on camnet).
I think it can make for nice strategies and a new form of mine usage/placement.
wtf are you talking? it's basically the same bs as connecting camnet and security cams: why bother doing something manually the computer can do for you? a proxy mine would do the same, but you don't have to time it. mines are meant to stop rushes, and the main reasons why they don't are:
-chaff working through walls
-laser and proxy mine delay
-the ability to be healed by your partner (+15s is too long) making poison mines useless against team rushes (poison mines are bs anyways, especially with gadget use overlap if they replace a trap)
fix these points + soundloss and mines are used what they are intended to: slowing down rushes.
i can't stand stupid suggestions for fancy new features and gadgets any more until the existing ones are balanced out sufficiently.
Well, I think combining uses for different gadgets would be a nice goal. Unless it's overpowered.
why? oO
Because it sounds fun (like teamwork)...I don't know how else to answer that.
Quote from: Gawain on November 18, 2007, 06:47:22 PM
Quote from: frvge on November 18, 2007, 05:45:28 PM
Buffing mines in this way, might take rushes out of the game or at least have it be a risk. If you're too slow to catch a Spy, go to Camnet and detonate the mine when the Spy runs past (which you see on camnet).
I think it can make for nice strategies and a new form of mine usage/placement.
wtf are you talking? it's basically the same bs as connecting camnet and security cams: why bother doing something manually the computer can do for you? a proxy mine would do the same, but you don't have to time it. mines are meant to stop rushes, and the main reasons why they don't are:
-chaff working through walls
-laser and proxy mine delay
-the ability to be healed by your partner (+15s is too long) making poison mines useless against team rushes (poison mines are bs anyways, especially with gadget use overlap if they replace a trap)
fix these points + soundloss and mines are used what they are intended to: slowing down rushes.
i can't stand stupid suggestions for fancy new features and gadgets any more until the existing ones are balanced out sufficiently.
Gawain.. Soundlosss wont be an issue because ITS A NEW ENGINE AND THE GAME IS PRODUCED BY EPIC AND NOT UBI!!!!!
agent, i'm not stupid. i mentioned it so that people think about the huge difference the absence of this little random bug will make for mines. without soundloss and other mine-related bugs, mines would kill good players about 20% of the time they do now.
I see the point, I see that it wouldn't be as visible so it would be a alternative to a proxy. Good idea, needs testing.
Quote from: Overstatement on November 18, 2007, 07:56:53 PM
Well, I think combining uses for different gadgets would be a nice goal. Unless it's overpowered.
Quote from: Overstatement on November 18, 2007, 08:00:28 PM
Because it sounds fun (like teamwork)...I don't know how else to answer that.
i think i still don't get you. what does this stupid idea for a new mine type have to do with teamplay??
what i do like are clever gadget combinations:
-chaff at bottleneck + spy hidden using camo
-ss+flash+quickcam=guessing game for the merc
-one spy going aggro with nades and bullets and the other spy sneaking past with snares, camo, hbs
-...
did you mean stuff like this?
what we really should avoid is gadgets overlapping in functions. this is the main reason why i don't like poison mines (<=> spytraps).
btw, smoke nades are a little bit too strong. one way to balance them would be allowing slightely faster walking through smoke; but the better one would be less impact on mercs vision since flash nades are meant to blind you.
You could just make it where the less filled out the smoke is then the less it blurs your vision/slows you down. Let's not get off topic.
I'm not too convinced about this. The idea is nice, but it might just not be necessary. I will agree with testing it, but let the devs see if they like it when they test it first.
there's no point in testing a 4th mine type ffs. leaving poison mines out of the game would be worth a try.
Sounds like something that will hardly be used except maybe in a few select locations. Perhaps not really worth the effort but there's no reason it can't just be the current frag mine with the lights turned off. Give the player a choice, proximity, laser, remote. Can't really say I think I would ever use them myself. Just no real need.
adding more complexity to the game without any positive effect on gameplay is just dumb, especially if the existing gadgets leave so much space for improvement.
Quote from: B1nArY_001 on November 19, 2007, 07:29:01 PM
Sounds like something that will hardly be used except maybe in a few select locations. Perhaps not really worth the effort but there's no reason it can't just be the current frag mine with the lights turned off. Give the player a choice, proximity, laser, remote. Can't really say I think I would ever use them myself. Just no real need.
Hell, if you don't mind spending the hours programming something that most people would deem useless, then why not?
because it adds complexity that is not needed.
The only use for a manual trigger mine is next to a hacking spot. So you hear "Greek Temple is being attacked" and then you remote detonate a hidden mine (hoping the spy didn't find it) and maybe you kill him, and maybe you don't.
Seems more like it'd just be used with cheesy hidden mines. Since normal mine placements see no benefit from this enhancement.
the only boost mines need is chaff not working through walls so that they can slow down rushes again. as overstatement pointed out, it's one of the overused gadgets anyways.
Quote from: Gawain on November 21, 2007, 09:33:21 PM
the only boost mines need is chaff not working through walls so that they can slow down rushes again. as overstatement pointed out, it's one of the overused gadgets anyways.
and less detonation time.
instant explosion for laser mine would be fine. but for proxy mines probably a smaller trigger radius would be sufficient.
Quote from: Gawain on November 21, 2007, 09:48:35 PM
instant explosion for laser mine would be fine. but for proxy mines probably a smaller trigger radius would be sufficient.
I think that the proxy kill and trigger radius should be the same size
Maybe it is already. Maybe you're making the same mistake Ubisoft possibly made because maybe the delay of the explosion allows the spy to get out of the radius and screw it all up.
express yourself more clearly
The detonation time is fine; the detonation detection radius is not. Seriously, it's too large. This is actually a detriment to the mercs. I can't count how many times I have set off a proxy and barely been scratched, if at all, because the damn thing blows up 50 feet away from me.
People would abuse this way to bad, doesn't sound to over powered but it could be. I learned this in goldeneye by my brother. Prox good, remote bad and cheap. Because of the following reasons
Sit in a corner with a bomb on a entrence waiting to blow it up, also putting it on objectives could cause some problems. Ino i think it would just open a big can of worms of balancing that doesn't need to happen.