why couldnt you just put in a secondary weapon if you chose as a gadget like say a desert eagle or sumthin? ??? Doesnt that gun shoot .50 cal bullets? if so i think theyre should be a big blood splat on the back wall. especially for a headshot.
A secondary weapon for the Merc is an option we're considering.
Backup meaning like a pistol? Man, I'd sooo love a revolver/desert eagle as a merc.
wtf did i miss something? oO
3 weapons are already too much, now you wanna add a sidearm weapon? why in the world would the gameplay benefit from something like this? oO
I'm pretty sure he means only 1 main weapon (instead of 3) and a sidearm.
Unless you allow a merc to carry two of the standard guns (which would be useful), carrying a pistol would just suck altogether and I really can't see a good reason to have it, except maybe for a shotgun user who has crap for long range. Given you can reload at any ammo boxes, you honestly don't need a backup weapon. Running out of bullets is already a relatively trivial concern for experienced mercs anyway.
We can discuss it. Perhaps it should be instead of ordinary tazer ? Taking this, would mean that you can take only 3 of your other gadgets: http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/homesecuritystore/advanced-taser.jpg
The range might be better than in ct. Also making tazer like this, would mean that time for reloading is needed. Perhaps spy could also do something when merc misses.
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In case the sidearm is an ordinary pistol. What could be it's use ? Why should someone use pistol instead of just using or reloading the main ?
I say one main gun from the choices of rifle, smg, or shotgun. Also Include an extremely weak pistol for shooting out bombs and stuff at a distance, for shotgun users.
Quote from: MR.Mic on January 05, 2008, 08:14:42 PM
I say one main gun from the choices of rifle, smg, or shotgun. Also Include an extremely weak pistol for shooting out bombs and stuff at a distance, for shotgun users.
Not a bad idea.
I didn't think about gameplay, or say anything about it. I just think it would be fun to pop a spy with deagle or a revolver. You could do the one weapon system and give it a little less ammo. It might not be a good idea, but it would be good for taunting someone as the final blow.
Of course, a desert eagle would be a little too powerful. I suggest the M9, not too powerful, but it gets the job done. OR, you could go with a usp .40
Quote from: Papa Skull on January 05, 2008, 09:45:58 PM
Of course, a desert eagle would be a little too powerful. I suggest the M9, not too powerful, but it gets the job done. OR, you could go with a usp .40
I suggest anything that is done by kebab, I win, thx.
but think about shooting a spy with a Deagle. a .50 cal pistol. i dont know why but when im playing call of duty 4 modern warfare with the Barrett or Deagle, theres always that little feeling for me that makes me wanna say "Hey, I just shot you in the head with a .50 cal bullet, hows that feel?!" it always gives me a feeling of satisfaction lol. I don't know about you guys but i think it just might give you that same feeling
Hell yeah it gives me that feeling. BUT, we don't want the pistol to be that powerful, or .50 cal for that matter.
Yea I see what you mean. maybe a USP .40 then or something.
I suggest that the pistol do absolutely zero damage to players, but can disable bombs and cameras with high-accuracy (very narrow cone of fire but no zoom).
Perhaps call it a remote electronics disabler.
Why do that when the uzi and sniper can already take them out easily?
Quote from: Papa Skull on January 06, 2008, 01:36:26 AM
Why do that when the uzi and sniper can already take them out easily?
Quote from: MR.Mic on January 05, 2008, 08:14:42 PM
Also Include an extremely weak pistol for shooting out bombs and stuff at a distance, for shotgun users.
If the game didn't have a shotgun, I wouldn't give a second shit about alternate firearms. "Cool factor" isn't a good reason to annex a feature.
Having a deagle or whatever would be just about useless compared to a rifle or uzi which rarely runs out of ammunition, unless you completely blow.
do you guys begin to realize that a one-weapon system is superior?
a pistol to defuse bombs is stupid because you want your shotgun in your hands ready to kill the spy covering the objective. why add complexity where it's not necessary?
Quote from: MR.Mic on January 06, 2008, 01:50:45 AM
If the game didn't have a shotgun, I wouldn't give a second shit about alternate firearms. "Cool factor" isn't a good reason to annex a feature.
Lol, like the split jump.
Having a deagle or whatever would be just about useless compared to a rifle or uzi which rarely runs out of ammunition, unless you completely blow.
A deagle wouldn't be useless. In fact, it would be overpowered. A 50 cal bullet with decent accuracy at medium range would be crazy. What about decreasing the amount of ammo by a little bit? Then you always have your pistol to fall on if you have to. All in all, I wouldn't really care either way. But for having a pistol to knock out bombs is retarded.
Quote from: Gawain on January 06, 2008, 02:07:33 AM
do you guys begin to realize that a one-weapon system is superior?
a pistol to defuse bombs is stupid because you want your shotgun in your hands ready to kill the spy covering the objective. why add complexity where it's not necessary?
That depends on how long time it takes to swap weapons. If it's like UT, the spy won't have time to do anything in the time it takes to switch to the pistol, shoot the bomb then switch back.
It wouldn't be only for taking out bombs, it'd work in snares, cams and spy bullets too.
What if it was a selectable gadget? That would be better. Especially if it shoots a cone, like suggested, but it has a limited range. As a selectable gadget then yeah, that'd work if you want to find and disable an electronic quickly.
The only reason I support a secondary arm is because knocking out bombs, cams, snares, etc at a distance is nearly impossible with the shotgun.
Possibly you could make the shotgun come with a little shooter at the end. It shoots in a cone shape fashion and what not. That way, you can keep the spread of the shotgun and still be able to disable devices.
Quote from: MR.Mic on January 06, 2008, 04:48:47 AM
The only reason I support a secondary arm is because knocking out bombs, cams, snares, etc at a distance is nearly impossible with the shotgun.
So why not take my simpler and more direct suggestion:
Shotgun gets a more narrow, normalized cone of fire toward the center of the crosshair. Fringe pellets are still random. Top damage you can do to a spy is 4/5 health from a full-on blast at close range. Possible to hit spies off objectives at pretty distant ranges, but it will do no damage.
If the pellets actually hit the center of the crosshair, you wouldn't need a deagle or whatever to shoot them out.
Then you have all 3 weapons capable of doing something at all ranges, but their optimal range is specialized. Shotty is good up close. Can still hit things far away, but does next to no damage. Uzi is good for med range when you don't have time to snipe and when the shotty would be too far to do significant damage, but its damage does not keep its power as far as the Rifle's. Rifle doesn't lose any damage from scope, but is susceptible to aggro due to its low ROF and magazine capacity up close.
I agree with Spekkio. I don't think PS needs any type of sidearm weapons. They feel out of place in a game like SvM and even with all the potential uses listed above, I think, it's not enough to warrant to put in the game.
lol well if you do happen to put a sidearm in the game, and its not a Deagle maybe someone can make a weapon skin to make it look like a desert eagle! ;D
Quote from: Spekkio on January 06, 2008, 06:51:57 AM
Quote from: MR.Mic on January 06, 2008, 04:48:47 AM
The only reason I support a secondary arm is because knocking out bombs, cams, snares, etc at a distance is nearly impossible with the shotgun.
So why not take my simpler and more direct suggestion:
Shotgun gets a more narrow, normalized cone of fire toward the center of the crosshair. Fringe pellets are still random. Top damage you can do to a spy is 4/5 health from a full-on blast at close range. Possible to hit spies off objectives at pretty distant ranges, but it will do no damage.
If the pellets actually hit the center of the crosshair, you wouldn't need a deagle or whatever to shoot them out.
Then you have all 3 weapons capable of doing something at all ranges, but their optimal range is specialized. Shotty is good up close. Can still hit things far away, but does next to no damage. Uzi is good for med range when you don't have time to snipe and when the shotty would be too far to do significant damage, but its damage does not keep its power as far as the Rifle's. Rifle doesn't lose any damage from scope, but is susceptible to aggro due to its low ROF and magazine capacity up close.
I always brought nades with the shotgun. They do quite well when it comes to long range things, like defusing bombs or getting spies away from hacking panels.
I think bombs would be less aggro-centered if the merc had to get to the bomb and manually defuse it, rather than shooting/nading it - since the merc is turning his back while diffusing manually, he has to make sure the area is clear first,
Of course, this would make it much harder to diffuse, but that's easily countered by increasing the bomb timer. What do you think?
Quote from: Spekkio on January 06, 2008, 06:51:57 AM
Quote from: MR.Mic on January 06, 2008, 04:48:47 AM
The only reason I support a secondary arm is because knocking out bombs, cams, snares, etc at a distance is nearly impossible with the shotgun.
So why not take my simpler and more direct suggestion:
Shotgun gets a more narrow, normalized cone of fire toward the center of the crosshair. Fringe pellets are still random. Top damage you can do to a spy is 4/5 health from a full-on blast at close range. Possible to hit spies off objectives at pretty distant ranges, but it will do no damage.
If the pellets actually hit the center of the crosshair, you wouldn't need a deagle or whatever to shoot them out.
Then you have all 3 weapons capable of doing something at all ranges, but their optimal range is specialized. Shotty is good up close. Can still hit things far away, but does next to no damage. Uzi is good for med range when you don't have time to snipe and when the shotty would be too far to do significant damage, but its damage does not keep its power as far as the Rifle's. Rifle doesn't lose any damage from scope, but is susceptible to aggro due to its low ROF and magazine capacity up close.
You are right.
spekkio's suggestion > sidearm weapon
i don't think removing the ability to defuse bombs with nades/bullets is such a good idea because it's a boost for out-running-the-merc tactics.
Quote from: BurningDeath on January 06, 2008, 02:08:37 PM
I always brought nades with the shotgun. They do quite well when it comes to long range things, like defusing bombs or getting spies away from hacking panels.
everyone takes nades no matter which weapon he uses...
Agree. No need to make sidearm.
QuoteQuote from: BurningDeath on January 06, 2008, 02:08:37 PM
I always brought nades with the shotgun. They do quite well when it comes to long range things, like defusing bombs or getting spies away from hacking panels.
everyone takes nades no matter which weapon he uses...
Think further. Everyone takes nades anyways, so why make the shotgun do anything at long range, when you can do it with nades just aswell.
cause in the late game you may have no nades.
shooting away a snare with a frag nade lol
seriously, you need every single nade for more important stuff, like covering stuff not in your fov in emergency situations, or keeping the spy from ss you and hack the last 2s etc
Quote from: Gawain on January 06, 2008, 08:02:12 PM
shooting away a snare with a frag nade lol
seriously, you need every single nade for more important stuff, like covering stuff not in your fov in emergency situations, or keeping the spy from ss you and hack the last 2s etc
Yeah, that's the downside of shotgun. No long range. Nades are a must when you bring shotgun because those are your only longer range capabilities. Just make one pellet direct every time, directly on the crosshair. That way you aren't trying to shoot snares etc with the spread stuff.
if you go for a 3 weapon system, this is the best solution someone came up with yet.
nades and mask are pretty mandatory in ct, and i don't think we should change that. probably spekkio's idea with 4 free slots +mask/camo always selected is the best solution.
I do think that there should be more than one option of weapons to choose from, however I don't agree that a *secondary* weapon will make the game any better. I believe that we all see the Mercenary as an unathletic gunner who never has the main gun out of his hands with the exception of placing mines. Having a secondary gun will eliminate of the most original features Splinter Cell online has. Stay kewl.
A sidearm would prove useless unless it offered something other than a back-up ammo system. Crates are normally quite easy to access in the levels and it is unusual for mercs to run out of ammo usually.
The merc is still holding the gun in his hand when placing mines >.>
oo, maybe you could change that to a sidearm just for kicks and giggles. :D
I don't really think a second gun is worth it. If you want to fix the shotgun problem, I prefer the one pellet that always goes straight ahead with perfect accuracy, and probably does like 2% damage or something. Not quite good enough for the spy to really care about, but it takes out cams, snares and can stop a hacking spy at long range.
It certainly wouldn't be realistic for a shotgun, but so what.
But with one pellet always going straight ahead with 100%accuracy it still makes it a pain weapon. Don't make it 100% accurate but make the spread more directed towards the center. I mean you shouldn't be able to shoot out cams across the level.
Quote from: psyichic on January 08, 2008, 10:19:05 PM
But with one pellet always going straight ahead with 100%accuracy it still makes it a pain weapon. Don't make it 100% accurate but make the spread more directed towards the center. I mean you shouldn't be able to shoot out cams across the level.
Well it really has to be 100% accurate, because the RoF is so slow. When you fire it at a cam or sometihng,you need to be able to take it out in one shot, maybe two shots. Anything more than that, and it's basically pointless.
It'd be totally unrealistic to have a 100% accurate shotgun, but I think it's something we probably have to do if we want to balance the weapon.
I think that for balance sakes though you should be limited to at most medium range accuracy. If the shotgun is made more dependable it should suffer from the inablility to hit gadgets at long range. Otherwise it would become overpowered. The real problem right now is that its hard to hit gadgets at even close range.
I'm not so sure if we need the shotgun to be able to take the spy off a hack at long range. MAYBE at medium range, but that's it. The thing is that it should only be accurate at close range. The only prob with it is that its stupid ass can't it something right in front of the barrel from point blank. Fix that and it's fine. Shotgunners need to be conservative of their grenades, because thats' the long range they got.
Quote from: psyichic on January 09, 2008, 02:12:16 AM
I think that for balance sakes though you should be limited to at most medium range accuracy. If the shotgun is made more dependable it should suffer from the inablility to hit gadgets at long range. Otherwise it would become overpowered. The real problem right now is that its hard to hit gadgets at even close range.
+1
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