I was just thinking about the alarm snare. What if you could set an alarm snare, and trigger it remotely. It work work more like the sticky camera that way. You wouldn't have to use this, and could just use the default way.
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 05, 2008, 12:41:11 AM
I was just thinking about the alarm snare. What if you could set an alarm snare, and trigger it remotely. It work work more like the sticky camera that way. You wouldn't have to use this, and could just use the default way.
This is similar to the idea of planting a bomb and then remotely activating it. I'm for it, within a certain distance of course. I think it would be a neat idea with the snares too.
this is a bad idea. just make the placing snares sound real gentle and everything is fine. if the merc finds out that there's a snare quickly he should be rewarded.
Quote from: Gawain on February 05, 2008, 12:45:16 AM
this is a bad idea. just make the placing snares sound real gentle and everything is fine. if the merc finds out that there's a snare quickly he should be rewarded.
How hard is it to tell if there is a snare down? Not hard at all. If you were toplace a snare, move away, then activate it when a merc was close, it would catch his attention as you go else where. If you can activate it, you should be able to deactivate it too.
Agreed. This should be added to the game, but as Westfall-US said:
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 05, 2008, 12:42:53 AM
I'm for it, within a certain distance of course.
Quote from: Gawain on February 05, 2008, 12:45:16 AM
this is a bad idea. just make the placing snares sound real gentle and everything is fine. if the merc finds out that there's a snare quickly he should be rewarded.
I agree with Nox-rambo on this one scince , thats how it was in pt the snares / bullets didn't make much noise and was alot better that way.
Quote from: AgentX_003 on February 05, 2008, 03:02:59 AM
Quote from: Gawain on February 05, 2008, 12:45:16 AM
this is a bad idea. just make the placing snares sound real gentle and everything is fine. if the merc finds out that there's a snare quickly he should be rewarded.
I agree with Nox-rambo on this one scince , thats how it was in pt the snares / bullets didn't make much noise and was alot better that way.
What does this have to do with the noise? I just wanted it to be able to be triggered later; nothing mentioned about the noise.
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 05, 2008, 12:41:11 AM
I was just thinking about the alarm snare. What if you could set an alarm snare, and trigger it remotely. It work work more like the sticky camera that way. You wouldn't have to use this, and could just use the default way.
That would be bad activating a snare that you placed next to a security laser across the map. Of course you have to wait 20 sec for that alarm to go down, but you are free to move as they think you are across the map. Within a range of 120- feet I say.
Quote from: Papa Skull on February 05, 2008, 04:23:51 AM
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 05, 2008, 12:41:11 AM
I was just thinking about the alarm snare. What if you could set an alarm snare, and trigger it remotely. It work work more like the sticky camera that way. You wouldn't have to use this, and could just use the default way.
That would be bad activating a snare that you placed next to a security laser across the map. Of course you have to wait 20 sec for that alarm to go down, but you are free to move as they think you are across the map. Within a range of 120- feet I say.
If you can activate it, you should be able to deactivate it. On/Off button on a remote...lol
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 05, 2008, 12:47:50 AM
Quote from: Gawain on February 05, 2008, 12:45:16 AM
this is a bad idea. just make the placing snares sound real gentle and everything is fine. if the merc finds out that there's a snare quickly he should be rewarded.
How hard is it to tell if there is a snare down? Not hard at all. If you were toplace a snare, move away, then activate it when a merc was close, it would catch his attention as you go else where. If you can activate it, you should be able to deactivate it too.
that's the point: by reducing the placement sound (<=>pt) and lowering the playing frequency (or is it "rate"? sry for bad english) of noises it would become harder to tell quickly that it's only a snare. this way snares become rather a stealth tool and not the aggro tool they are now.
Quote from: Gawain on February 05, 2008, 01:36:25 PM
that's the point: by reducing the placement sound (<=>pt) and lowering the playing frequency (or is it "rate"? sry for bad english) of noises it would become harder to tell quickly that it's only a snare. this way snares become rather a stealth tool and not the aggro tool they are now.
Do all that AND make them triggerable and you have a gadget that is worth a slot again.
no it would be op because the merc would never be able to trust his sound indicator again (which is quite weak vs good players anyways)
Quote from: Gawain on February 05, 2008, 02:22:34 PM
no it would be op because the merc would never be able to trust his sound indicator again (which is quite weak vs good players anyways)
You contradict yourself there. If it's weak anyways, why would you want to trust it?
I overthought it again: I think we should try 5 triggerable snares, with activation sound and believable distraction-noises.
Quote from: Gawain on February 05, 2008, 02:22:34 PM
no it would be op because the merc would never be able to trust his sound indicator again (which is quite weak vs good players anyways)
idk about you, but my sound reticule is the most useful tool I have as a merc. Even against good players, it has saved my ass through think and thin. I can tell you the snares are very obvious, because they just dont change direction. At all. I rthink being able to activate it would be worthwhile.
I do think that the sounds should be more realistic, and be less frequent, but we should also be able to trigger them. It makes sense, too, because this is highly advanced equipment.
I agree that the sound reticle is the best merc gadget, hands down. You can throw out grenades, mines, all of that, but throw out the sound reticle and the mercs would be way harder to play.
well, because of the sound reticule (and other reasons) spies can't run around mindlessly, but with properly used snares they can. snares already work quite well for aggro, but for stealth players it makes too much sound placing them. i think the problem with snares is that they can find quite good use in a team, but not with random players. no matter how you boost snares, you can't make them better than smoke or stickies or hbs. maybe we should really consider a 5 slot system (with some restrictions or with camo as a permanent gadget)...
So, you are saying that because of the sound snares make when shooting, they are ineffective? Smokes and stickeys both make sounds. Stickies can be for aggro or stealth, and smokes are pure aggro.
Alarm snares, if there was less of a sound, would be more effective, I agree. But, triggering them remotely would make the merc guess about his sound detector. I think that is a good thing.
Alarm snares would be meant as a stealth gadget if I was developing it. It would be meant as a distraction for the merc. But, it could also be used for agrro, for something like hiding and necking.
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 05, 2008, 11:50:32 PM
So, you are saying that because of the sound snares make when shooting, they are ineffective? Smokes and stickeys both make sounds. Stickies can be for aggro or stealth, and smokes are pure aggro.
Alarm snares, if there was less of a sound, would be more effective, I agree. But, triggering them remotely would make the merc guess about his sound detector. I think that is a good thing.
Alarm snares would be meant as a stealth gadget if I was developing it. It would be meant as a distraction for the merc. But, it could also be used for agrro, for something like hiding and necking.
Smokes are not pure aggro. They create a great diversion...along with chaff. What if you couldplace a sound bullet on the merc?
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 06, 2008, 12:17:11 AM
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 05, 2008, 11:50:32 PM
So, you are saying that because of the sound snares make when shooting, they are ineffective? Smokes and stickeys both make sounds. Stickies can be for aggro or stealth, and smokes are pure aggro.
Alarm snares, if there was less of a sound, would be more effective, I agree. But, triggering them remotely would make the merc guess about his sound detector. I think that is a good thing.
Alarm snares would be meant as a stealth gadget if I was developing it. It would be meant as a distraction for the merc. But, it could also be used for agrro, for something like hiding and necking.
Smokes are not pure aggro. They create a great diversion...along with chaff. What if you couldplace a sound bullet on the merc?
I admit, smokes can be used for stealth, but in a very minuscule amount.
A sound bullet on a merc...I don't really know right now. What would it do? Ping sounds in every direction?
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 06, 2008, 05:07:05 AM
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 06, 2008, 12:17:11 AM
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 05, 2008, 11:50:32 PM
So, you are saying that because of the sound snares make when shooting, they are ineffective? Smokes and stickeys both make sounds. Stickies can be for aggro or stealth, and smokes are pure aggro.
Alarm snares, if there was less of a sound, would be more effective, I agree. But, triggering them remotely would make the merc guess about his sound detector. I think that is a good thing.
Alarm snares would be meant as a stealth gadget if I was developing it. It would be meant as a distraction for the merc. But, it could also be used for agrro, for something like hiding and necking.
Smokes are not pure aggro. They create a great diversion...along with chaff. What if you couldplace a sound bullet on the merc?
I admit, smokes can be used for stealth, but in a very minuscule amount.
A sound bullet on a merc...I don't really know right now. What would it do? Ping sounds in every direction?
Yea. Just make the reticule lit up in every direction. This practically disables the reticule, which would be an awesome thing for spies.
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 06, 2008, 05:08:56 AM
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 06, 2008, 05:07:05 AM
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 06, 2008, 12:17:11 AM
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 05, 2008, 11:50:32 PM
So, you are saying that because of the sound snares make when shooting, they are ineffective? Smokes and stickeys both make sounds. Stickies can be for aggro or stealth, and smokes are pure aggro.
Alarm snares, if there was less of a sound, would be more effective, I agree. But, triggering them remotely would make the merc guess about his sound detector. I think that is a good thing.
Alarm snares would be meant as a stealth gadget if I was developing it. It would be meant as a distraction for the merc. But, it could also be used for agrro, for something like hiding and necking.
Smokes are not pure aggro. They create a great diversion...along with chaff. What if you couldplace a sound bullet on the merc?
I admit, smokes can be used for stealth, but in a very minuscule amount.
A sound bullet on a merc...I don't really know right now. What would it do? Ping sounds in every direction?
Yea. Just make the reticule lit up in every direction. This practically disables the reticule, which would be an awesome thing for spies.
I kind of like it. I would like it even more if you can toggle when it starts and stops :P
Even if you could hear the snare being fired as clear as day, it still scrambles the mercs reticule and that makes them useful. Put them all around the mercs and you are free to run around regardless of how obvious they are because it disables the reticule's use.
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 06, 2008, 05:09:46 AM
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 06, 2008, 05:08:56 AM
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 06, 2008, 05:07:05 AM
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 06, 2008, 12:17:11 AM
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 05, 2008, 11:50:32 PM
So, you are saying that because of the sound snares make when shooting, they are ineffective? Smokes and stickeys both make sounds. Stickies can be for aggro or stealth, and smokes are pure aggro.
Alarm snares, if there was less of a sound, would be more effective, I agree. But, triggering them remotely would make the merc guess about his sound detector. I think that is a good thing.
Alarm snares would be meant as a stealth gadget if I was developing it. It would be meant as a distraction for the merc. But, it could also be used for agrro, for something like hiding and necking.
Smokes are not pure aggro. They create a great diversion...along with chaff. What if you couldplace a sound bullet on the merc?
I admit, smokes can be used for stealth, but in a very minuscule amount.
A sound bullet on a merc...I don't really know right now. What would it do? Ping sounds in every direction?
Yea. Just make the reticule lit up in every direction. This practically disables the reticule, which would be an awesome thing for spies.
I kind of like it. I would like it even more if you can toggle when it starts and stops :P
Talk about a great tool against a merc. Turning it on and off. They would hate their lives.
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 06, 2008, 05:11:07 AM
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 06, 2008, 05:09:46 AM
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 06, 2008, 05:08:56 AM
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 06, 2008, 05:07:05 AM
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 06, 2008, 12:17:11 AM
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 05, 2008, 11:50:32 PM
So, you are saying that because of the sound snares make when shooting, they are ineffective? Smokes and stickeys both make sounds. Stickies can be for aggro or stealth, and smokes are pure aggro.
Alarm snares, if there was less of a sound, would be more effective, I agree. But, triggering them remotely would make the merc guess about his sound detector. I think that is a good thing.
Alarm snares would be meant as a stealth gadget if I was developing it. It would be meant as a distraction for the merc. But, it could also be used for agrro, for something like hiding and necking.
Smokes are not pure aggro. They create a great diversion...along with chaff. What if you couldplace a sound bullet on the merc?
I admit, smokes can be used for stealth, but in a very minuscule amount.
A sound bullet on a merc...I don't really know right now. What would it do? Ping sounds in every direction?
Yea. Just make the reticule lit up in every direction. This practically disables the reticule, which would be an awesome thing for spies.
I kind of like it. I would like it even more if you can toggle when it starts and stops :P
Talk about a great tool against a merc. Turning it on and off. They would hate their lives.
I see a new gadget for the mercs, "The Emo Knives, used for slashing wrists when you feel down."
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 06, 2008, 05:12:14 AM
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 06, 2008, 05:11:07 AM
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 06, 2008, 05:09:46 AM
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 06, 2008, 05:08:56 AM
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 06, 2008, 05:07:05 AM
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 06, 2008, 12:17:11 AM
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 05, 2008, 11:50:32 PM
So, you are saying that because of the sound snares make when shooting, they are ineffective? Smokes and stickeys both make sounds. Stickies can be for aggro or stealth, and smokes are pure aggro.
Alarm snares, if there was less of a sound, would be more effective, I agree. But, triggering them remotely would make the merc guess about his sound detector. I think that is a good thing.
Alarm snares would be meant as a stealth gadget if I was developing it. It would be meant as a distraction for the merc. But, it could also be used for agrro, for something like hiding and necking.
Smokes are not pure aggro. They create a great diversion...along with chaff. What if you couldplace a sound bullet on the merc?
I admit, smokes can be used for stealth, but in a very minuscule amount.
A sound bullet on a merc...I don't really know right now. What would it do? Ping sounds in every direction?
Yea. Just make the reticule lit up in every direction. This practically disables the reticule, which would be an awesome thing for spies.
I kind of like it. I would like it even more if you can toggle when it starts and stops :P
Talk about a great tool against a merc. Turning it on and off. They would hate their lives.
I see a new gadget for the mercs, "The Emo Knives, used for slashing wrists when you feel down."
The team has to appreciate the creativity here :P
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 06, 2008, 05:12:57 AM
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 06, 2008, 05:12:14 AM
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 06, 2008, 05:11:07 AM
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 06, 2008, 05:09:46 AM
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 06, 2008, 05:08:56 AM
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 06, 2008, 05:07:05 AM
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 06, 2008, 12:17:11 AM
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 05, 2008, 11:50:32 PM
So, you are saying that because of the sound snares make when shooting, they are ineffective? Smokes and stickeys both make sounds. Stickies can be for aggro or stealth, and smokes are pure aggro.
Alarm snares, if there was less of a sound, would be more effective, I agree. But, triggering them remotely would make the merc guess about his sound detector. I think that is a good thing.
Alarm snares would be meant as a stealth gadget if I was developing it. It would be meant as a distraction for the merc. But, it could also be used for agrro, for something like hiding and necking.
Smokes are not pure aggro. They create a great diversion...along with chaff. What if you couldplace a sound bullet on the merc?
I admit, smokes can be used for stealth, but in a very minuscule amount.
A sound bullet on a merc...I don't really know right now. What would it do? Ping sounds in every direction?
Yea. Just make the reticule lit up in every direction. This practically disables the reticule, which would be an awesome thing for spies.
I kind of like it. I would like it even more if you can toggle when it starts and stops :P
Talk about a great tool against a merc. Turning it on and off. They would hate their lives.
I see a new gadget for the mercs, "The Emo Knives, used for slashing wrists when you feel down."
The team has to appreciate the creativity here :P
Quote line for the win.
I actually like the merc sticker sound idea the more I think about it.
Arg, stop the quote-wars.
The Emo-knives are nice, but the Decoy-on-Merc is not. Or the other way around.
Interesting idea.
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 06, 2008, 05:12:57 AM
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 06, 2008, 05:12:14 AM
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 06, 2008, 05:11:07 AM
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 06, 2008, 05:09:46 AM
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 06, 2008, 05:08:56 AM
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 06, 2008, 05:07:05 AM
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 06, 2008, 12:17:11 AM
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 05, 2008, 11:50:32 PM
So, you are saying that because of the sound snares make when shooting, they are ineffective? Smokes and stickeys both make sounds. Stickies can be for aggro or stealth, and smokes are pure aggro.
Alarm snares, if there was less of a sound, would be more effective, I agree. But, triggering them remotely would make the merc guess about his sound detector. I think that is a good thing.
Alarm snares would be meant as a stealth gadget if I was developing it. It would be meant as a distraction for the merc. But, it could also be used for agrro, for something like hiding and necking.
Smokes are not pure aggro. They create a great diversion...along with chaff. What if you couldplace a sound bullet on the merc?
I admit, smokes can be used for stealth, but in a very minuscule amount.
A sound bullet on a merc...I don't really know right now. What would it do? Ping sounds in every direction?
Yea. Just make the reticule lit up in every direction. This practically disables the reticule, which would be an awesome thing for spies.
I kind of like it. I would like it even more if you can toggle when it starts and stops :P
Talk about a great tool against a merc. Turning it on and off. They would hate their lives.
I see a new gadget for the mercs, "The Emo Knives, used for slashing wrists when you feel down."
The team has to appreciate the creativity here :P
Creativity? There is nothing creative left in the emo stereotype >.<
How about NOT jamming the marked merc's reticule, and cutting the mercs connection?
This way the marked merc would not appear on his buddy's radar, and would make as a moving snare (not working on hit merc, since the reticule doesn't react on sounds made by the user.)
i think totally killing the mer'c reticule is too much. but it could make sound always in the same direction for the merc it is placed on and for the other merc it would be moving a moving sound source unless he removes it from his mate. btw, it would be cool if you actually have to look for bullets (and maybe snares) to remove them...
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 05, 2008, 12:47:50 AM
Quote from: Gawain on February 05, 2008, 12:45:16 AM
this is a bad idea. just make the placing snares sound real gentle and everything is fine. if the merc finds out that there's a snare quickly he should be rewarded.
How hard is it to tell if there is a snare down? Not hard at all. If you were toplace a snare, move away, then activate it when a merc was close, it would catch his attention as you go else where. If you can activate it, you should be able to deactivate it too.
Late to this thread, so quoting early here...
As someone who uses snares (because they're fun), the point of snares is to conceal your movement so that you can move more quickly while undetected. It's not to make the merc think "oh, let me go over here because this snare sure sounds like a spy!lol" I do agree that they should be a lot more quiet to fire like in PT, but keep the 5 snares with longer duration.
This secondary function is aimed at doing the latter, which might not be such a bad thing. Just make sure that you can differentiate between the two before you fire the thing because I don't want the same thing that happens with that damn last cam menu.
Quote from: Spekkio on February 06, 2008, 05:10:24 PM
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 05, 2008, 12:47:50 AM
Quote from: Gawain on February 05, 2008, 12:45:16 AM
this is a bad idea. just make the placing snares sound real gentle and everything is fine. if the merc finds out that there's a snare quickly he should be rewarded.
How hard is it to tell if there is a snare down? Not hard at all. If you were toplace a snare, move away, then activate it when a merc was close, it would catch his attention as you go else where. If you can activate it, you should be able to deactivate it too.
Late to this thread, so quoting early here...
As someone who uses snares (because they're fun), the point of snares is to conceal your movement so that you can move more quickly while undetected. It's not to make the merc think "oh, let me go over here because this snare sure sounds like a spy!lol" I do agree that they should be a lot more quiet to fire like in PT, but keep the 5 snares with longer duration.
This secondary function is aimed at doing the latter, which might not be such a bad thing. Just make sure that you can differentiate between the two before you fire the thing because I don't want the same thing that happens with that damn last cam menu.
so you're concerned about multiple snares and going back and forth?
new idea here? cams should make noise when they are shot yes, but why should they make noise when u are looking around?? it always gives away the cam if a merc is near by
I'm concerned at trying to shoot a snare on the fly and nothing happens cuz some dumb menu pops up.
Quote from: FusionSlayer on February 06, 2008, 07:14:41 PM
new idea here? cams should make noise when they are shot yes, but why should they make noise when u are looking around?? it always gives away the cam if a merc is near by
the hydraulics make the noise.
Quote from: Spekkio on February 06, 2008, 07:14:54 PM
I'm concerned at trying to shoot a snare on the fly and nothing happens cuz some dumb menu pops up.
you should only be able to active/deactivate 1 snare at a time. Unless you just want to shoot one off, then shoot another for remote purposes. After you shoot 1, if you shoot another, you shouldn't have access to the last 1.
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 06, 2008, 07:17:06 PM
Quote from: FusionSlayer on February 06, 2008, 07:14:41 PM
new idea here? cams should make noise when they are shot yes, but why should they make noise when u are looking around?? it always gives away the cam if a merc is near by
the hydraulics make the noise.
yes i understand that, but is it really nesaccary? should the merc have to actually do something to find the cam? it showing up on reticule or with emf? instead of just hearing it through the speakers?
Quote from: FusionSlayer on February 06, 2008, 07:20:09 PM
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 06, 2008, 07:17:06 PM
Quote from: FusionSlayer on February 06, 2008, 07:14:41 PM
new idea here? cams should make noise when they are shot yes, but why should they make noise when u are looking around?? it always gives away the cam if a merc is near by
the hydraulics make the noise.
yes i understand that, but is it really nesaccary? should the merc have to actually do something to find the cam? it showing up on reticule or with emf? instead of just hearing it through the speakers?
Well, its an electric device, so it should blow up on EMF. The hydraulics should be heard within a crtain distance. It won't ping the sound reticule. I didn't know it pinged now.
It doesn't ping the reticle. Nothing wrong with cams making noise when you move them considering they KO the merc.
EDIT: And I'm not talking about shooting more than one snare. When you place a mine, a menu comes up that lets you pick which one to place. If there are multiple snare types, they need to be pre-selectable somehow so you don't get stuck in a bad spot.
maybe have it showing up as if it were a 5th slot
ie, scroll wheel, u see smoke, snare1, snare2, hbs, cams
for the number buttons, press in this case 2 once for snare1, press again for snare2, press again to go back to snare1, that when when u shot u are ready to go, if u switch from snare2 to hbs, and press 2 to switch back to snares it should bring snare2 up not snare1
this idea would also be good for mines and other multi gadgets instead of the menu when u are placing, i find it annoying sometimes when u are in a rush
ah like ETQW? Interesting idea :) I like it.
sure ... not sure what that is tho haha, but im glad you like that idea
I like it too. And he's probably talking about Enemy Territory: Quake Wars.
Correct.
Why not just have a system, where you hold the right mouse button for over a second or something, and then it goes into the second snare mode? I know, a lot like a menu, but a second is a lot longer than the .25 or however long it is now.
i still think that remote activation is a bad idea...
just fix the placement sound, the frequency of noises and maybe the duration. with smoke and stickies getting a nerf, snares will become a more interesting choice again anyways.
Quote from: Gawain on February 06, 2008, 11:32:26 PM
i still think that remote activation is a bad idea...
Thanks for saying that. Why not give a reason instead of just pointing out your opinion. Your opinion means nothing without backing.
well, tell me why it's a good idea in the first place? snares don't and won't work for deluding the merc, they are are meant to provide sound cover so that you can move more quickly and use hbs when the merc is close etc
with snares doing sound instantly after firing them you have to be careful placing them, and especially placing them near you isn't a no-brainer decision. just lower the shooting/placement sound, make the noises a little bit more realistic and slightely increase the timer. if that doesn't work out for gadget balance with all the other obvious fixes, think again on adding a remote control.
If it is meant for running around, why do we need to change it at all? You don't need to have a low sound when shooting, cause you can run away. You don't need more realistic sounds, because the merc apparently already believes them. I don't really know what you mean about the HBS.
Quote from: Gawain on February 07, 2008, 12:39:16 AM
well, tell me why it's a good idea in the first place? snares don't and won't work for deluding the merc, they are are meant to provide sound cover so that you can move more quickly and use hbs when the merc is close etc
with snares doing sound instantly after firing them you have to be careful placing them, and especially placing them near you isn't a no-brainer decision. just lower the shooting/placement sound, make the noises a little bit more realistic and slightely increase the timer. if that doesn't work out for gadget balance with all the other obvious fixes, think again on adding a remote control.
we already talked about why it was a good idea. It would be a fixed and adjusted gadget with more than one use, as opposed to the kind of waste it is currently.
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 07, 2008, 06:46:46 AM
Quote from: Gawain on February 07, 2008, 12:39:16 AM
well, tell me why it's a good idea in the first place? snares don't and won't work for deluding the merc, they are are meant to provide sound cover so that you can move more quickly and use hbs when the merc is close etc
with snares doing sound instantly after firing them you have to be careful placing them, and especially placing them near you isn't a no-brainer decision. just lower the shooting/placement sound, make the noises a little bit more realistic and slightely increase the timer. if that doesn't work out for gadget balance with all the other obvious fixes, think again on adding a remote control.
we already talked about why it was a good idea. It would be a fixed and adjusted gadget with more than one use, as opposed to the kind of waste it is currently.
I totally disagree scince im an avid snare user and i know how to make them work properly, i can't tell you how many times i've gotten decent mercs necks with them trying to shoot them out , just you people are foolish and think they are some noise maker =/ .. and put them all of them all over the place =/.
Quote from: AgentX_003 on February 07, 2008, 07:27:49 AM
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 07, 2008, 06:46:46 AM
Quote from: Gawain on February 07, 2008, 12:39:16 AM
well, tell me why it's a good idea in the first place? snares don't and won't work for deluding the merc, they are are meant to provide sound cover so that you can move more quickly and use hbs when the merc is close etc
with snares doing sound instantly after firing them you have to be careful placing them, and especially placing them near you isn't a no-brainer decision. just lower the shooting/placement sound, make the noises a little bit more realistic and slightely increase the timer. if that doesn't work out for gadget balance with all the other obvious fixes, think again on adding a remote control.
we already talked about why it was a good idea. It would be a fixed and adjusted gadget with more than one use, as opposed to the kind of waste it is currently.
I totally disagree scince im an avid snare user and i know how to make them work properly, i can't tell you how many times i've gotten decent mercs necks with them trying to shoot them out , just you people are foolish and think they are some noise maker =/ .. and put them all of them all over the place =/.
Never really saw your purpose with them.
A skilled merc would usually be able to quickly disable a snare with EMF coupled with a sniper rifle. If he doesn't have a rifle then the merc should be smart enought not to try and spend an hour shooting the snare with their backs turned.
Snares will be useful imo if they have more realistic sounds that spies would make, and if they make minimal sound when deployed. POSSIBLY, you could make it where shooting a snare pings the merc's reticule, but the sound is decreased greatly so they can't tell if a snare is launched. BUT, they would still see it get detected on their reticule.
with almost no shooting sound you could actually use them for some delusions. imagine a merc chasing you, you run around a corner, quickly shoot a snare in a direction many spies would go and hide/take another route/...
i suggest the following changes for snares:
-really gentle shooting/placing sound (pt or less volume)
-a little less frequent noises
-higher percentage of likely noises like pulling out hbs without laser, activating camo (=new noise), crouch-diving,...
-changing volume of noises so that you can't make out the distance
-boosting duration by 50%
i really do think that these would work out quite well. it's not that snares are that weak, it's rather that stickies and smokes are way op in a certain svm game.
I doubt the usefulness of a 2nd alarm snare mode myself, but I'm still waiting for someone to explain what the purpose of it would be before I think about it any more.
Quote from: Spekkio on February 07, 2008, 07:32:56 PM
I doubt the usefulness of a 2nd alarm snare mode myself, but I'm still waiting for someone to explain what the purpose of it would be before I think about it any more.
Well, it was explained throughout the thread. You can place it on a merc, trigger it if you want, which in turn makes the reticule go off in all directions. Place it near a security device and activate it, drawing mercs attention away from specific areas. You should be able to turn the device off so it doesn't last forever. It would actually make snares more useful. Right now, and even with the fixes, the snares aren't really that tricky. In fact, the snares are probably the worst gadget in the game for any type of diversion. Its not hard to tell when a snare is up and present, even if it was shot silently. If you can't tell, then you deserve to get your neck snapped. With the remote trigger, there is a sense of deception that isn't present now with the normal snares or with the would-be fixed snares. I agree with the fixes Gaiwan, but the snares really aren't thats much of a diversion. They omit a sound that pings the reticule....takes an Einstein to figure out that there is a snare around....nt.
i played versus teams decent at using snares and i must say that they they aren't that underpowered if you know the right spots to place them. it's just that sound cover isn't as important as recon tools, tools to get away or to even knock out the merc so only good teams will make use of snares with a 4 slot system. things would look different with nerfed stickies and smoke, a boosted camo and maybe even a 5 slot system...
Quote from: Gawain on February 07, 2008, 08:27:10 PM
i played versus teams decent at using snares and i must say that they they aren't that underpowered if you know the right spots to place them. it's just that sound cover isn't as important as recon tools, tools to get away or to even knock out the merc so only good teams will make use of snares with a 4 slot system. things would look different with nerfed stickies and smoke, a boosted camo and maybe even a 5 slot system...
QFT.
I find the biggest limitation to taking snares is the fact that I only have four slots, and...
-Chaff for omfg spam around so I can mindlessly run around and ignore mines > snares
-Smoke/flash for getting away from mercs > snares
-HB sensor or bullets for knowing where mercs are > snares
-Cams to KO mercs > snares
Again, Westfall, the point of snares isn't to trick the merc into thinking it's actually a spy, but to set off the reticle constantly so that you can run around without the merc knowing that the noise is coming from you.
EDIT: Also, I would NOT like to see "less frequent noises." That would actually weaken snares.
There's no need to make active snares at all if you can stick them to mercs. Being able to orchestrate snares as you wish sounds a bit overpowering. So as a result we'd get two entirely different functions: Snares on mercs for sound cover, and remote activation for diversions. Sounds pretty interesting, but I'm not so sure about the spy being able to turn it on/off as he pleases.
NO to snares on mercs pinging in every direction. maybe a yes if they only ping in the direction they are positioned on the merc.
The whole point of this is to make the snare a stealth gadget, not a running around gadget. That is why remote activation would be a good idea. You shoot it, then trigger it when you feel the need. Example:
You are playing clubhouse. You shoot a snare out by 1st floor garden. You then find a way into jacuzzi without alerting the merc to your presence. You use your heartbeat sensor, and the merc is in steam, making it a short run. You trigger the snare, and wait until the merc is far enough away to start hacking. You complete your hack, and gtfo.
I think that would be a good use for it. I think it also fits perfectly with the spy theme, as it is not lethal, but used as a deceptive device to complete your objective without any fatalities.
QuoteThe whole point of this is to make the snare a stealth gadget, not a running around gadget
But it is a stealth gadget. Why do you think "stealth" has to be synonymous with "slow?"
I agree that shocking mercs and running around while they chase you until you win is stupid gameplay. But shooting a snare so that you can run from A to B without a merc being on your tail rather than crouching through that route is not stupid.
Quote from: Spekkio on February 08, 2008, 01:55:42 AM
But shooting a snare so that you can run from A to B without a merc being on your tail rather than crouching through that route is not stupid.
While that may be a viable tactic, I don't think that was the original design, nor should it be. In my opinion, I think it should be used to give the mercs false impressions, while slipping past their post. By running around, I meant aggro.
I think stealth should be a faster type of stealth, but not running like crazy, shocking the mercs, and just necking. I think you should run, but only when you are behind the scenes, and staying out of possible danger. I mean, why have a heart beat sensor if you are just running around?
With this new mode, it could be used more as a stealth gadget, for avoiding possible confrontations.
QuoteWhile that may be a viable tactic, I don't think that was the original design, nor should it be.
Funny claim. What gives you that idea? You couldn't even jump and land without setting off the reticle in PT. Based on that, I would say that your idea of what the original design of snares was is off.
Also, you're hardly ever going to give false impressions to a smart merc. It doesn't take that much time to assess whether or not a spy is actually around.
Quote from: Spekkio on February 08, 2008, 02:45:03 AM
Also, you're hardly ever going to give false impressions to a smart merc. It doesn't take that much time to assess whether or not a spy is actually around.
I think that should change. I am not sure how, but a merc shouldn't be able to just sit and wait for a spy to stumble by.
Why do I think the original idea wasn't to let spys run around? Well, if it was just for that, why make audible sounds? A merc isn't going to be listening to them anyways, so why make them? The reticle is all that matters in that case.
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 08, 2008, 12:21:38 AM
I think that would be a good use for it. I think it also fits perfectly with the spy theme, as it is not lethal, but used as a deceptive device to complete your objective without any fatalities.
Yes kinda like how in single player the cams could whistle lol
it's not that easy to find stealth players now, and without nv-uba-mt, eax superhearing and with a better camo it will even be way harder.
another reason why snares aren't that much used is the existance of crouch-dive-crouch-dive-... which allows really fast silent movement.
Can we assume that crouch dive crouch dive will be out of the game as well as crouch roll crouch? Those are some pretty cheap moves that shouldn't be allowed.
I don't see a reason why. I generally don't use them and mastering it takes time.
maybe the forced crouching phase between two dives should be a little bit longer.
QuoteI think that should change. I am not sure how,
Congratulations on thinking something should be a certain way based on your gut instinct and prejudices. When you figure out how and why, then make a post. Otherwise, accept the fact that you're spewing nonsense right now.
QuoteWell, if it was just for that, why make audible sounds? A merc isn't going to be listening to them anyways, so why make them? The reticle is all that matters in that case.
You're either not listening or not thinking.
I clearly said that it's quite apparent to me that snares exist to cover movement so the mercs can't pinpoint the spy's location immediately. When spies move around, they make noises other than pinging the reticle. Thus, it makes sense that snares also make these noises so that the mercs don't know whether they came from a spy or the snare.
Papa: There is absolutely nothing wrong with the fast dive. Yea, you can't do it on the Xbox. So what?
Quote from: Spekkio on February 08, 2008, 08:38:58 PM
QuoteI think that should change. I am not sure how,
Congratulations on thinking something should be a certain way based on your gut instinct and prejudices. When you figure out how and why, then make a post. Otherwise, accept the fact that you're spewing nonsense right now.
QuoteWell, if it was just for that, why make audible sounds? A merc isn't going to be listening to them anyways, so why make them? The reticle is all that matters in that case.
You're either not listening or not thinking.
I clearly said that it's quite apparent to me that snares exist to cover movement so the mercs can't pinpoint the spy's location immediately. When spies move around, they make noises other than pinging the reticle. Thus, it makes sense that snares also make these noises so that the mercs don't know whether they came from a spy or the snare.
Papa: There is absolutely nothing wrong with the fast dive. Yea, you can't do it on the Xbox. So what?
So in some aspects you want the snares not even to set off the ping.
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 08, 2008, 09:15:48 PM
So in some aspects you want the snares not even to set off the ping.
It would be logical to have the 'loud' sounds like running, shooting the ss, pulling out the gun, etc .. ping the reticle and the 'silent' ones like crouching, sliding down a ledge, silently pulling out the gun. etc .. not.
Quote from: BurningDeath on February 08, 2008, 09:20:39 PM
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 08, 2008, 09:15:48 PM
So in some aspects you want the snares not even to set off the ping.
It would be logical to have the 'loud' sounds like running, shooting the ss, pulling out the gun ping the reticle and the 'silent' ones like crouching, sliding down a ledge, silently pulling out the gun. etc .. not.
So we've gone from remote activated snares, which was a problem because differing between regular snares and remote snares was difficult, to different frequency snares.
Different frequency snares is a great idea. I still don't want to toss out the remote snare idea because it can work well in a stealthy situation. Running around and using snares to bury your footsteps is garbage gameplay. In fact, that is what SvM has turned into. Running, tazzing, chaff/smoke, running, running, possible cam, chaff through mine, running, hack a little, taz, smoke/chaff, run, run run run run. Its boring. With remote snares, it does act in a more stealth manner. Not because its slower, but because it has better diversion tactics.
QuoteSo in some aspects you want the snares not even to set off the ping.
I never said that. I was explaining why it makes sense that snares both set off the reticle AND make audible noises that the spies would make.
I would actually want snares to be "smarter" in PS; ie, if you shoot it in a vent, it should only make vent walking noises and not creeking wood noises.
QuoteIt would be logical to have the 'loud' sounds like running, shooting the ss, pulling out the gun, etc .. ping the reticle and the 'silent' ones like crouching, sliding down a ledge, silently pulling out the gun. etc .. not.
This wouldn't be logical at all. You can't hear these noises unless you're relatively close to the snare. As a spy, you would have no idea whether or not your movement is covered.
So you want snares to just cover up your running sounds?
I still don't see why you think the remote snare is a bad idea. You haven't given me a good reason as far as I can remember, only that it is good for running.
Quote from: Spekkio on February 08, 2008, 08:38:58 PM
Congratulations on thinking something should be a certain way based on your gut instinct and prejudices. When you figure out how and why, then make a post. Otherwise, accept the fact that you're spewing nonsense right now.
Let him state his opinion. If he was in an argument then he'd have to back it up, yeah. Don't be so rude please. I don't even know who said that, so I'm not taking favorites or anything :D
Papa: There is absolutely nothing wrong with the fast dive. Yea, you can't do it on the Xbox. So what?
Not really anything wrong with fast dive. I mean, the crouch dive crouch. I exaggerated how bad it was. The crouch roll crouch, on the other hand, is bad. There is no point for lasers when there is something everyone can do silently get by them.
Quote from: Spekkio on February 08, 2008, 08:38:58 PM
QuoteI think that should change. I am not sure how,
Congratulations on thinking something should be a certain way based on your gut instinct and prejudices. When you figure out how and why, then make a post. Otherwise, accept the fact that you're spewing nonsense right now.
I thought that was quite apparent, by the way I said :
QuoteThe whole point of this is to make the snare a stealth gadget, not a running around gadget. That is why remote activation would be a good idea.
Do I think masking sounds should be a secondary advantage? Sure. Do I think that should be the main reason for taking snares? No.
That is the main reason snares need a buff. I think snares should be exactly like a spy. Not the way they are now. Depending on map design, a remote snare could be a great tool, or a non-sense slot waster.
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 09, 2008, 02:29:39 AM
So you want snares to just cover up your running sounds?
That's what they currently do.
QuoteI still don't see why you think the remote snare is a bad idea. You haven't given me a good reason as far as I can remember, only that it is good for running.
That's because as long as it doesn't come at the expense of the way snares currently work, I wouldn't care if remote snares were in the game. Although, I will say that if they result in increased merc camping, then I'd be against them. I, personally, probably wouldn't use them anyway, though. Too much work.
QuoteDo I think that should be the main reason for taking snares? No.
Yea, I got it the first time you said this. Then I replied that you have given no reasoning or explanation on why you believe this, let alone why it would be better if snares didn't mask your movement. You just made up the way something should be just because, and now you're posting nonsense about it.
There are things in this game that make noise which is unavoidable to make. Snares allow you to make those noises without giving yourself away 100% of the time. It's that simple. Don't like that someone with EAX heard you moving through the vent over there? Well, you should've brought snares and you wouldn't have that problem.
Snares don't need a buff other than being a bit more quiet to fire.
QuoteSo you want snares to just cover up your running sounds?Quote
QuoteThat's what they currently do.
I am aware, but is that what you think they should be doing?
QuoteI still don't see why you think the remote snare is a bad idea.
QuoteYou haven't given me a good reason as far as I can remember, only that it is good for running.
That's because as long as it doesn't come at the expense of the way snares currently work, I wouldn't care if remote snares were in the game. Although, I will say that if they result in increased merc camping, then I'd be against them. I, personally, probably wouldn't use them anyway, though. Too much work.
If the snares actually made a believable spy, then the only thing it should do is decrease camping.
QuoteDo I think that should be the main reason for taking snares? No.
QuoteYea, I got it the first time you said this. Then I replied that you have given no reasoning or explanation on why you believe this, let alone why it would be better if snares didn't mask your movement. You just made up the way something should be just because, and now you're posting nonsense about it.
I want it to be a more useful gadget than just masking sounds, though. Masking sounds can and should stay, just get a buff in the luring merc part.
QuoteI am aware, but is that what you think they should be doing?
Obviously, yes:
QuoteThere are things in this game that make noise which is unavoidable to make. Snares allow you to make those noises without giving yourself away 100% of the time. It's that simple. Don't like that someone with EAX heard you moving through the vent over there? Well, you should've brought snares and you wouldn't have that problem.
QuoteIf the snares actually made a believable spy, then the only thing it should do is decrease camping.
Not necessarily.
I'm all for making snares a bit more useful, but is making them remote activated really necessary? I think that they should make no audible noise when deployed, but they ping the merc's radar. I think that they should make a more believable sound. Meaning they don't make a sound every .5 seconds lol. Also, I believe you should be able to scroll through a little list that pops up on your screen and you would be able to cycle through different noises: Spy running, ss shot, spy landing, flash/smoke/chaff being deployed, etc...
But what if you could do something really cool like what I am about to suggest. It may not be good for gameplay, but it would be as fun as all get out :D
What if you could make voice recordings. Then you could cycle through your voice recordings. You could say things like: "I'm in here noob!" or "Westfall stop camping you pansy!" ;D It would ping the merc's radar like it usually would, but as the merc gets closer to the snare he can hear the recording more clearly. I think that it would freaking fun as hell. What do you guys think?
And if anyone was wondering, I'm installing Chaos Theory as we speak, but direct 2 drive is slower than I thought.
No.
The presence detector is not necessary, but is very nice to have. This is what I am aiming for, only with the snare. Sure, you don't have to use it, but it could end up useful and fun.
I said that it wouldn't be great for gameplay, but that it would be fun. Are you disagreeing with on if it would be fun or not? Your suggestion wouldn't be as fun as mine Ion. :D
Quote from: Papa Skull on February 09, 2008, 05:58:39 AM
What if you could make voice recordings. Then you could cycle through your voice recordings. You could say things like: "I'm in here noob!" or "Westfall stop camping you pansy!" ;D It would ping the merc's radar like it usually would, but as the merc gets closer to the snare he can hear the recording more clearly. I think that it would freaking fun as hell. What do you guys think?
And if anyone was wondering, I'm installing Chaos Theory as we speak, but direct 2 drive is slower than I thought.
I'll camp all I want sucka. Bout time you installed the pos that is CT.
it's not that snares aren't useful, they really pwn especially against eax&headphone users. the problem is that with overpowered smoke and stickies there isn't much space left for them.
what you guys also don't get is this: with snares being able to make realistic noises remotely controllable it would actually encourage camping because you can't trust your sound reticule anymore. it's not a bad thing that snares are pretty obvious, but without the shooting sound they could actually be used for short, balanced delusions and stealth players had an easier time using them because they don't give away their position that much.
QuoteIt would be logical to have the 'loud' sounds like running, shooting the ss, pulling out the gun, etc .. ping the reticle and the 'silent' ones like crouching, sliding down a ledge, silently pulling out the gun. etc .. not.
This wouldn't be logical at all. You can't hear these noises unless you're relatively close to the snare. As a spy, you would have no idea whether or not your movement is covered.
[/quote]
Who says how far noises can be heard? Right, that's the dev's decision, not yours. And of course your movement would be covered. Think of the sounds that don't ping the reticle as fillers between those who do. They're not as important, they just add to the believeability of the snares. ;)
Quote from: Gawain on February 09, 2008, 12:31:02 PM
what you guys also don't get is this: with snares being able to make realistic noises remotely controllable it would actually encourage camping because you can't trust your sound reticule anymore.
Why would 'we' not get that? Do you need those little, derogative lines?
Also .. it's completely up to the map-designers if they allow camping or not. GL HF camping an objective when there are three others left.
QuoteWho says how far noises can be heard? Right, that's the dev's decision, not yours. And of course your movement would be covered. Think of the sounds that don't ping the reticle as fillers between those who do. They're not as important, they just add to the believeability of the snares.
So you think that audible spy sounds should be heard anywhere on the map? I think most people are going to disagree with you there.
First, you can't have the spies hearing every tiny sound and not the mercs. Second, I don't want my sound clogged up by a snare across the map. Third, timing exactly when the sound occurs will be a pain in the ass.
Quoteit's not that snares aren't useful, they really pwn especially against eax&headphone users. the problem is that with overpowered smoke and stickies there isn't much space left for them.
Smoke/cams aren't overpowered so long as the merc has mask. However, they do force mercs to have the gasmask, so I do think that should be looked at somehow. Either give mercs mask as a free equipment item, or weaken the effect of smoke to closer to PT levels so that you can actually do something when you don't have mask. If I had to pick one gadget that is overpowered as spy, it'd be chaff because it goes through walls.
The spies have more types of gadgets to take than the mercs. The times where I can't take snares are when chaff is absolutely necessary to infiltrate the map (ie museum, hospital). But this goes into the 5 slot things. I challenge anyone who thinks that putting an extra slot is bad to take snares 100% of the time for their next few sessions of playing.
QuoteWhy would 'we' not get that?
Because it's pretty obvious in this discussion that the people who want the huge changes to snares either don't use snares at all, or never bothered to explore how they can be fully effective.
The limitation to snares is that you have to shoot them before or after you are about to give yourself away anyway because of the loud noise they make. I don't think they should be silent to fire, but you shouldn't be able to hear the firing sound beyond a very short radius *shameless reference to my sound idea.
I am still arguing about a remote idea, not quite sure what you (a few people) are arguing about.
If you think the snare should not ping the reticle, or be louder, or be silenter to fire, then be my guest. All I am trying to prove is that a remote snare could work really well.
Camping is all in the map design. The reason camping is moderately easy right now is because of the map design. They usually have two objectives place close together, and the merc can easily run between them. The map design needs to change, no doubt, and that could potentially improve snare uses if you had 3 objectives, widely spread.
Quote from: Spekkio on February 09, 2008, 03:47:34 PM
QuoteWhy would 'we' not get that?
Because it's pretty obvious in this discussion that the people who want the huge changes to snares either don't use snares at all, or never bothered to explore how they can be fully effective.
or just want better snares...
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 09, 2008, 05:27:37 PM
Quote from: Spekkio on February 09, 2008, 03:47:34 PM
QuoteWhy would 'we' not get that?
Because it's pretty obvious in this discussion that the people who want the huge changes to snares either don't use snares at all, or never bothered to explore how they can be fully effective.
or just want better snares...
Agreed. I use snare, because I think they are fun to use, but I could easily do better if I used a different loadout, not including snares.
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 09, 2008, 05:27:37 PM
Quote from: Spekkio on February 09, 2008, 03:47:34 PM
QuoteWhy would 'we' not get that?
Because it's pretty obvious in this discussion that the people who want the huge changes to snares either don't use snares at all, or never bothered to explore how they can be fully effective.
or just want better snares...
Then why are so many people proposing bullshit that would NERF snares?
We have people who suggested in this thread:
-Lowering the frequency of reticle pings (would reduce the amount of cover you get from snares)
-Removing any audible sounds that snares make (would reduce the amount of cover you get for crouch-walking on loud surfaces or drawing your gun)
-That snares shouldn't even offer any cover, but somehow serve as this miraculous gadget to turn mercs into retards.
Anyone who is proposing any of those clearly doesn't use snares or understand how they work.
QuoteAgreed. I use snare, because I think they are fun to use, but I could easily do better if I used a different loadout, not including snares.
I have won games because of snares, so I really don't know where this crap that snares are hugely underpowered comes from. I will give you that other equipment items are usually better, but that's mostly because they are overpowered in some sense, i.e. chaff goes through walls, smoke slows you down to a standstill without mask, and cams offer an additional way to KO the merc.
The reason I want snares to be more quiet to fire is so that people can use them in a more stealthy capacity. That's really the only tweak I think that they should get. As for a secondary function, I'm not completely against it atm, but I do doubt its usefulness in the long term.
Quote
-Removing any audible sounds that snares make (would reduce the amount of cover you get for crouch-walking on loud surfaces or drawing your gun)
-That snares shouldn't even offer any cover, but somehow serve as this miraculous gadget to turn mercs into retards.
Anyone who is proposing any of those clearly doesn't use snares or understand how they work.
I know I said those two, but I never proposed those. I was just saying that if all the snare did was cover you running, it could just not have a sound or have a buzzing sound that covered you. Also, I never said it shouldn't offer cover, it should. But, it should server as a diversion more than a tool so you can run around.
QuoteThe reason I want snares to be more quiet to fire is so that people can use them in a more stealthy capacity. That's really the only tweak I think that they should get. As for a secondary function, I'm not completely against it atm, but I do doubt its usefulness in the long term.
Well, ok, glad that is settled. I have no problem with quieter snares.