balancing of sticky cams

[InvisibleMan999]

The discussion right now should rather be, IS it possible to make a working UZI in PS ?

If you're talking about the lag issues, the netcode might be better in PS. So the uzi just might work as is. Even if the uzi is laggy, fixing it is easy. You just reduce the RoF and up the damage by a like amount. So if you cut the RoF in half, you double the damage. That way the damage per second stays the same.

Pretty easy really.

Hell you could probably just give it the same RoF as the rifle but double damage and that'd work.

The shotgun may be the only weapon that's conceptually unsalvageable. The problem with it is that you need some kind of long range threat in this game. Even if it's just to stop a hacking spy.

[B1nArY_001]

Just to clear up a common misunderstanding, the uzi problem isn't confined to poor net code though that contributes to the problem.

The first issue was with a certain graphics card which was fixed.

The second issue is the hit animation a spy goes through when struck by a bullet. The standard hit animation for the rifle and shotgun was re-used for the uzi but gets played back very quickly and it gets chained together because of the high ROF making the spies movement jittery and laggy. Not what UBI intended I'm sure, but it's what happened and for some reason they just left it.

PS won't have this same issue as the animations/code will be our own. We will however be able to expect a whole new set of bugs.

The shotgun may be the only weapon that's conceptually unsalvageable. The problem with it is that you need some kind of long range threat in this game. Even if it's just to stop a hacking spy.

Grenades provide the long range threat needed. A shotgun user just needs to adapt their play style to accommodate this. You don't always need to go for a kill with the grenades either, just shoot the grenade close enough they are forced to stop hacking and if possible shoot the grenade so they are forced to either run into the grenade or flee away from it towards you into shotty range. The same way you shoot a grenade to one side of an object and then go around the other way to intercept the spy.

Shotgun users don't usualy adopt a chase and kill type style, the good ones I've played against just used the shotgun's heavy threat level paired with a good patrol pattern (I use pattern loosely as we all know predictability leaves openings) to keep spies off objectives which may not be fun for those of us who prefer to kill, but hey, each to their own.

The number of players that complain or kick you for using the shotty is so immense that I highly doubt the shotgun's full potential in the hands of a skilled player has been seen.

[Westfall]

So is PS going to have uzi in it?

[B1nArY_001]

At this time as far as I know we are planning to include a high ROF weapon though it will not be an uzi.

[neth]

Hmm perhaps unusual wpns like crossbow  with low ROF but with poisoning arrows or pistol ?

[InvisibleMan999]

The number of players that complain or kick you for using the shotty is so immense that I highly doubt the shotgun's full potential in the hands of a skilled player has been seen.

I dunno. I mean there are some people who complain about shotty, but they're mostly DM players. When I see a merc with a shotty I love it. If I could pick my opponent's weapons, I definitely give them all shottys.

[Gawain]

both uzi and shotty are retarded. wtf is wrong with the pt rifle? does it take too much skill for you to snipe or counter it?

[InvisibleMan999]

both uzi and shotty are retarded. wtf is wrong with the pt rifle? does it take too much skill for you to snipe or counter it?

Not everyone is a sniper. Frvge said it, I've said it, as have plenty of others.

Some people just don't snipe as their playstyle.

Besides if you guys like sniping so much, go play DA. That's a pure snipers game. Then every merc can be a sniper and every spy has to play the same way. That's the kind of crap when the game doesn't give you choices and instead forces a certain playstyle on you.

[Gawain]

That's the kind of crap when the game doesn't give you choices and instead forces a certain playstyle on you.

don't compare da to pt. the playstyle sniper "forces" is much more sophisticated.

[InvisibleMan999]

don't compare da to pt. the playstyle sniper "forces" is much more sophisticated.

A forced playstyle, regardless of how complex, is still a forced playstyle and it sucks. That's why DA failed.

Creating so called n00b weapons makes the game more accessible to people and will increase our community size.

I don't even get the whole anti-uzi/shotgun mentality. It's like you acknowledge they're weaker weapons, but somehow think it's cheap when someone uses them. I mean... wtf? If someone wants to take an inferior weapon, why do you have such a problem with it?

Give people choices. It doesn't hurt the game at all. If you're so elite as to avoid headshots from the rifle in time, then it should be very easy to avoid getting mowed down by the uzi. Seriously, it's not as great a weapon as most of you think. I think you've all been playing without it for so long that you don't even know what it does anymore.

[goodkebab]

There will be 3 weapons classes for sure!  If UT 3 can have a gatling gun and shotgun without lag issues,  I dont see how we can go wrong with an uzi like weapon. 

This elitist mentality of rifle only is really stupid.   Especially when I use shotty all the time  and get flamed by idiots posting the exact same comments.  I have no sympathy for that.

[Spekkio]

While I would prefer a PT-style rifle only, I have no real qualms about 3 weapons so long as you tweak them accordingly. The shotty is way too random and doesn't actually hit where you aim it, and that needs to be fixed. Ever try to shoot out a snare or a spy bullet with that thing? LoL. I also don't think that the shotty should insta-gib people, unless there is a way to make it both consistent and relatively difficult.

On top of that, give the rifle 30 rounds but keep its ROF, give the uzi max magazine size of 300, and increase the uzi's bullet spread to be bigger than the rifle's and I think that'll balance out nicely.

[InvisibleMan999]

While I would prefer a PT-style rifle only, I have no real qualms about 3 weapons so long as you tweak them accordingly. The shotty is way too random and doesn't actually hit where you aim it, and that needs to be fixed. Ever try to shoot out a snare or a spy bullet with that thing? LoL. I also don't think that the shotty should insta-gib people, unless there is a way to make it both consistent and relatively difficult.

I can agree to the shotty's randomness, that definitely needs to be fixed. As far as the insta-gib, I don't see a problem with it, since it's only a shotty headshot that insta-gibs and only at close range. That's fine really. That's exactly what the shotty is supposed to do, blow people's heads off. If it couldn't get those one shot kills at close range, then it probably wouldnt' be worth much.

If anything, the shotty needs some improvement.

On top of that, give the rifle 30 rounds but keep its ROF, give the uzi max magazine size of 300, and increase the uzi's bullet spread to be bigger than the rifle's and I think that'll balance out nicely.

Yeah the 30 rounds should be fine. The main power of the rifle is its sniping capability anyway. So 30 extra bullets aint' gonna do much.

Not sure about the bullet spread thing for the uzi though. The uzi is supposed to be a mid range weapon, so it should be reasonably accurate at longer range, at least to the point where it can hit something and disrupt a hacking spy.

If you wanted to nerf the long range a little, you could add slightly more recoil to the uzi, so that it can't keep up accurate sustained fire at longer ranges, but it should get a decent long range "ping" shot that stops a spy from hacking. That way it can still do something at long range, just not much.

[Spekkio]

The shotty doesn't just insta-gib on a headshot.

[Westfall]

Ok, there is no need to say that you're "not going to show sympathy for those who don't like uzi or shotgun." In my eyes, both uzi and shotgun were pure garbage in CT. If you can actually fix them, then I won't really care. Its not going to matter in the long run really, but realize that the additions of these 2 "brute-like" weapons is neither rational nor good judgment.

Go ahead and spam me on this. Whatever, your opinions aren't going to change because I'm telling you truth. Maybe in Project Stealth 2 we can have a button that nukes the entire place. Just a little more love for the merc. Didn't we discuss balance at some point? Apparently this is just mythology to you.

Fix the weapons and goodluck.