Knockout

InvisibleMan999 · December 17, 2007, 01:35:42 AM

Quote from: Papa Skull on December 16, 2007, 11:42:24 PM
This is more for the stealth player. If you grab him you should put him to sleep quickly and escape quickly. A kill is more for the aggro player like you said. You grab him, take more time to snap his neck, and you are rewarded by a merc losing a life. A knockout should be the opposite.

Still.. what the hell is a stealth player doing grabbing mercs when there are two mercs close to each other?

Farley4Fan · December 17, 2007, 01:52:48 AM

stealth players aren't always in the shadows. I play using mostly stealth but when I'm compromised I'll fight, or escape depending on the situation. If I grab the merc that found me I want to be able to take him out quickly and be on my way because more than likely the merc that I grabbed told his teammate where I was. That's just how it is. If I kill a merc chances are that the other merc is going to widen his patrolling area a little bit so he can go to any objective if it is getting hacked.

Example:

If I am found in Pirate's Room on Aquarius I will likely put up a fight with the merc who found me. ( there isn't a big possibility of escaping unless I try to go in a vent or make a run through the blue room ) At that time he is probably telling his teammate that atleast one spy is in Pirate's Room so he gets ready to go in if his buddy gets grabbed. So, I grab the merc. He tells his buddy he got grabbed and he comes in and puts one right in my head because I have to go through the animation. It doesn't matter which I choose, neck snap or KO it still is long enough for someone to open a door and quick snipe me.

The stealth player doesn't always know that there are two mercs. Sometimes the other merc can be waiting close by but out of sight and detection range, but still in sniping range or grenading range. Obviously a stealth player isn't going to try and grab a neck with two mercs nearby that he knows about.

Spekkio · December 17, 2007, 02:39:20 PM

This thread is too funny...

"KO should be stronger because it's not used very often..."

But when it is used, it's quite powerful as the merc is way out of position

"That doesn't matter. It should be used more. *propose 4 different radical changes*"

Then we move onto...

"I want a faster grab animation"

Why?

"Because I hate it when I get a grab and then the other merc comes to save the spy. We should implement something like a faster KO animation or just let the merc go."

The KO animation is already faster

"Omg, I don't care. Stop telling me that I don't know how to play. I want to be able to let the merc go. It's not fair that the other one can kill me. I don't always know he's there, so I should be able to get away every time. *lists more unnecessarily complex changes*"

-------------------

Seriously, papa, your posts include no actual reasoning on why this feature should be included in the game other than the fact that you are whining about a merc coming to save his partner, or at the very least claim retribution on your ass. That's called teamwork, and it should be rewarded. Perhaps you should have your partner look out for you, too, and then you won't have the problem anymore.

Cyntrox · December 17, 2007, 03:11:06 PM

I think the neck snap time should be way longer, and then we keep the knock out like it is now - this makes them good for different reasons, and actually gives the merc a chance to save his partner.

Gawain · December 17, 2007, 03:32:27 PM

Quote from: Spekkio on December 17, 2007, 02:39:20 PM
This thread is too funny...
...
Seriously, papa, your posts include no actual reasoning on why this feature should be included in the game other than the fact that you are whining about a merc coming to save his partner, or at the very least claim retribution on your ass. That's called teamwork, and it should be rewarded. Perhaps you should have your partner look out for you, too, and then you won't have the problem anymore.

qfe
this game is about teamplay, recon, timing, etc and there should be rewards for this.
if you play stealth, you should have time for recon and the opponents won't stay close anyways (good mercs only come close when they suspect/know that there are 2 spies in one merc's sector or one merc is aggroed and needs help) so what's your fucking problem??
papa, with everything you post i get the idea that you want to make ps a no-brainer with some fancy effects because you lack experience with good players.
btw, it's quite ridiculous that you accuse me of flaming console players, but i don't bash most of what invisibleman contributes.

Farley4Fan · December 17, 2007, 06:10:38 PM

Here is a quote from out good ole Gawain:

"stupid console kiddies" or "console bs" You are biased towards console players. Just because you start to agree with stuff he says doesn't make him pro or me a noob. When a console player joins the forum the first thing you think is he is probably a mediocre player.

Spekkio, with my idea you wouldn't get away everytime. My idea isn't a magic invisible cloak you put on as soon as you crack his neck. My idea was to give the spy the chance to get away if a merc comes around the corner or is attempting to snipe him. A FUCKING CHANCE MAN! Not a 100% get away. That guy can still gun him down or snipe him after he's dropped the other merc. With what we have now it is like the spy is in a god damn bear trap and they are punished for grabbing a merc, it's bullshit.

Gawain · December 17, 2007, 08:01:06 PM

plz stop this bullshit papa. you have absolutely no argument besides you're pure stupidity for breaking a merc when the other one is near and you're not covered. oh and why the fuck do you believe this will help stealth players??? this would certainly help aggro players way way more than stealth players...

Westfall · December 17, 2007, 08:04:27 PM

I still think the neck-break time could be shorter. Unless you guys get off watching the spy orgasm when he snaps a neck.

Spekkio · December 17, 2007, 08:32:00 PM

Quote from: Papa Skull on December 17, 2007, 06:10:38 PM
Here is a quote from out good ole Gawain:

"stupid console kiddies" or "console bs" You are biased towards console players. Just because you start to agree with stuff he says doesn't make him pro or me a noob. When a console player joins the forum the first thing you think is he is probably a mediocre player.

Ok. So why did you write that same rant before in response to MY post?

QuoteSpekkio, with my idea you wouldn't get away everytime. My idea isn't a magic invisible cloak you put on as soon as you crack his neck. My idea was to give the spy the chance to get away if a merc comes around the corner or is attempting to snipe him. A FUCKING CHANCE MAN! Not a 100% get away. That guy can still gun him down or snipe him after he's dropped the other merc. With what we have now it is like the spy is in a god damn bear trap and they are punished for grabbing a merc, it's bullshit.

You have a chance as it is. It's not like it takes 10 years to snap a neck. You can do it and get away safely with in the time of a sticky shock (which is 3-4 seconds, depending on whether or not the host shocked you). Point is, the mercs are killing you because they managed to work together and cover each other's asses. The way to counter that is:

-to have your partner cover you
-exploit the fact that the mercs are together and have your partner run elsewhere.
-don't grab the merc if his partner is close enough to cover him

That's 3 chances, actually.

The spy isn't being punished for grabbing a merc -- after all, unless you fall asleep at the keyboard you will always get the kill before getting shot, considering that you are invulnerable while in the grab animation. The spy is being punished because the mercs worked together, and the spies didn't.

Quote from: Westfall-US on December 17, 2007, 08:04:27 PM
I still think the neck-break time could be shorter. Unless you guys get off watching the spy orgasm when he snaps a neck.

I really don't think the animation should be changed unless balance indicates otherwise. At this point, I think the grab-->neck snap time is right where it ought to be.

B1nArY_001 · December 17, 2007, 08:54:52 PM

The length of animations used in PT and CT are just about spot on and PS will likely use animations very similar in length. The only thing I can see possibly being different is the animation following a neck break, how slowly/quickly the merc's body is dropped.

The controls in PS will likely be much more responsive than CT which is going to have a big impact on gameplay so there's quite a few things that there is no real point in arguing about until it has been seen in action.

Farley4Fan · December 18, 2007, 02:09:29 AM

Believe it or not the people I play with on console are great at sniping. As soon as they see their buddy grabbed they'll put a bullet in the spy's head. The only chance I have at escaping is if my buddy is with me. My buddy and I are stealth players and we usually are split up and work together while apart. This will help stealth players.

InvisibleMan999 · December 18, 2007, 02:31:23 AM

Quote from: Papa Skull on December 18, 2007, 02:09:29 AM
Believe it or not the people I play with on console are great at sniping. As soon as they see their buddy grabbed they'll put a bullet in the spy's head. The only chance I have at escaping is if my buddy is with me. My buddy and I are stealth players and we usually are split up and work together while apart. This will help stealth players.

You have not seen great snipers until you have played on PC.

B1nArY_001 · December 18, 2007, 03:13:48 AM

Please, let's not turn this into another PC vs Console bout.

Spekkio · December 18, 2007, 03:36:07 AM

At least it's a console player conceding that, though :D.

Farley4Fan · December 18, 2007, 07:45:47 AM

I HAVE played on PC and I know how good snipers can become. People like MacBryce you know... But, there are people who have been playing this game and other FPS for years and years. They've got their thumbs trained. The group I play with sometimes on xbox live and system link know how to snipe on CT. I must admit though that PC has better potential for sniping than console.

Some people don't know I played CT on PC for about a month. I've got some experience on PC but I switched to console for CT since most of my friends played it on console. My computer had some problems that I never really wanted to fix and I just bought a new standard PC. I've probably got about 30 hours of experience on PC and over 600 on the xbox.

I don't see what is so harmless about making a release button. You don't get a kill, he gets up quickly, and you can still be killed. There are other instances, like if a merc shoots a grenade at the ground right before you grab him, that make me sick. I'd like a release or push option. Shorter KO animation may be a bit overpowered like you say.