changing equipment

[Spekkio]

Right but that's what you're there for. Mines aren't gonna do all the work against a good spy, and if he's using it all on running upto mines he's going to run out very quickly in which case you've probably still got a backpack(hell you could of brought 2 backpacks) and the spy is fresh out of chaff. If he dies, yes he has more but like I said, if you can't kill him either he's doing somethign right.

I agree that mines aren't supposed to do all the work, but chaff shows its true potential when a merc is chasing the spy, not when the spy is currently undetected and has the time to disable stuff.

To use a realtime example: you're on club house sitting outside one of the garden hacks. You see a laser going across, and the HB sensor shows that the merc is in the hallway or near the back rooms. Whether you have to toss the nade to disable that laser or quick-throw makes little difference in this scenario.

Now take that merc and put him in the elevator, or in a situation where he's in garden and can see you. Since chaff works through walls, the spies always have the ability to go between the levels faster than the mercs, regardless of whether or not the merc has taken the time to fortify the area with traps. Chaff working through walls doesn't just allow you to bypass them safely, it effectively makes the mines or traps not even there.

In theory, a merc chasing a spy into a mine should get a kill, yes? He planned out his trap placement in such a way that should catch a spy trying to escape, rather than a spy trying to enter. Thing is, lawlz, I has chaff and I can actually hear mines, so your mine fails and I run away like it's not even there.

[AgentX_003]

Problem is that its' a speed rush. You honestly don't have time to refill at your partner's backpack and calmly place mines about the level. The spies are always running around doing something, and you're chasing them. You don't often have time to drop down complex mine placements or anything. So while it sounds nice in theory, you don't really have that kind of time.
[/quote]

I agree with this notion, considering imo .. thats the con side to backpack.. if you take the time to refill ones gadgets while a spy is stealthing and you dont know they are in the back some where near a objective , it can be a game coster =/,

its better to stick to the oldschool gadgets, spytrap or tazer =)!.



@ spekkio  and Sithduke i totally disagree about chaff going threw walls, if you wanna be realistic ( which i am indeed a realist ) clubhouse is a bad example

how the hell can particles go through a concrete wall =/.

[Test-Subject]

@ spekkio  and Sithduke i totally disagree about chaff going threw walls, if you wanna be realistic ( which i am indeed a realist ) clubhouse is a bad example

how the hell can particles go through a concrete wall =/.

If enought mass up on one side off the wall the magnetic field will be strong enought to damage anything directly on the other side

[Cyntrox]

how the hell can particles go through a concrete wall =/.

How the hell can aluminium particles float in the air? How can they expand like that then stop short? And how the hell can floating aluminium particles disable a proxy mine?

[frvge]

Because it's a game  ;D

[neth]

Because it's a game  ;D

Yeah, right. aND MAYbe yoU SAY THAT SAM FISHER DOESNT EXIST HUH ?

how the hell can particles go through a concrete wall =/.

How the hell can aluminium particles float in the air? How can they expand like that then stop short? And how the hell can floating aluminium particles disable a proxy mine?

You see, I could explain it but its very difficult.

[Test-Subject]

how the hell can particles go through a concrete wall =/.

(1)How the hell can aluminium particles float in the air? (2)How can they expand like that then stop short? (3)And how the hell can floating aluminium particles disable a proxy mine?

1: Small , magnetic, staticly charged, particles... they can stay in the air long enough

2: Do I have to draw a picture... chaff= small bomb with magnetic particle in it... explode = particuls go flying.... no more energie due to air friction they stop

3: Moving magnetic particles are a variation in the magnetic field this variation  create in a conductor a electric courant than can be opposed or in the same direction as the conrant in a "mine" so as long as the particule are mouving they will distrup the elctrical balance in any device.... I'm not sure that it realy works but the theorie does

[Cyntrox]

Except that they're not magnetic or electrically charged :P

[Test-Subject]

Except that they're not magnetic or electrically charged :P

Well just read the description for ur self...

First they aren't aluminum for sure since they have to be magnetic. They are charge since they are conductor moving in a magnetic field and colliding in mid-air

Secondly... if you read the description (again) the chaff also shoots a EMP... I hope I don't have to tell why electric device wont work..

Now the right question would be how the mine can restart running after a Emp and where did theyh find the technologie to miniaturize a Emp device to this magnitude

[Cyntrox]

In that case, the description is not what chaff really is like. I really didn't think you were serious... I don't have the description at hand, but

1: Small , magnetic, staticly charged, particles... they can stay in the air long enough

Being magnetic would only help if they were attracted to something above them - which they are not in all cases.

2: Do I have to draw a picture... chaff= small bomb with magnetic particle in it... explode = particuls go flying.... no more energie due to air friction they stop

Which could have been true if they deaccelerated slowly, but they don't.

3: Moving magnetic particles are a variation in the magnetic field this variation  create in a conductor a electric courant than can be opposed or in the same direction as the conrant in a "mine" so as long as the particule are mouving they will distrup the elctrical balance in any device.... I'm not sure that it realy works but the theorie does

If the electrical currents in the mine was overloaded, it's more likely to explode than shut down - although none of us knows how future mines are designed. But the fact that the light goes out means that there is no electrical current in the circuit, or it is broken.

[Test-Subject]

In that case, the description is not what chaff really is like. I really didn't think you were serious... I don't have the description at hand, but

1: Small , magnetic, staticly charged, particles... they can stay in the air long enough

Being magnetic would only help if they were attracted to something above them - which they are not in all cases.

2: Do I have to draw a picture... chaff= small bomb with magnetic particle in it... explode = particuls go flying.... no more energie due to air friction they stop

Which could have been true if they deaccelerated slowly, but they don't.

3: Moving magnetic particles are a variation in the magnetic field this variation  create in a conductor a electric courant than can be opposed or in the same direction as the conrant in a "mine" so as long as the particule are mouving they will distrup the elctrical balance in any device.... I'm not sure that it realy works but the theorie does

If the electrical currents in the mine was overloaded, it's more likely to explode than shut down - although none of us knows how future mines are designed. But the fact that the light goes out means that there is no electrical current in the circuit, or it is broken.

there isn't only attration with magnetic stuff there also repulsion + any electical wire(mostly found in the ceilling) will create a magnetic field

Why should they deaccelerated slowly small particles have a small masse so the small force on them make huge difference. They would deaccelerated very fast due to air friction (try throwing confetti).

A Emp will destroy any circuit not protected... the only explaintion for the mine to come back online would be that there one part protected againt' EMP and the other not. The one who isn't protected have many backup to switch to is any is damage...

[Cyntrox]

there isn't only attration with magnetic stuff there also repulsion + any electical wire(mostly found in the ceilling) will create a magnetic field

True, but nowhere near a magnetic field powerful enough to actually affect the particles noticeably.

Why should they deaccelerated slowly small particles have a small masse so the small force on them make huge difference. They would deaccelerated very fast due to air friction (try throwing confetti).

But then they wouldn't be able to get as far away from where you drop the grenade as they do.

A Emp will destroy any circuit not protected... the only explaintion for the mine to come back online would be that there one part protected againt' EMP and the other not. The one who isn't protected have many backup to switch to is any is damage...

It doesn't matter if the circuit is destroyed when the mine is blown up >.<

Most likely, there is a detonator that is triggered electronically. If the wires are overloaded with electricity ("fried"), then the detonator will explode and detonate the primary explosive.

By the way, this argument is utterly pointless and off-topic.

[Gawain]

can element jump in here? afaik he's a physicist.

once again it's not about realism, it's about gameplay and balance.

[InvisibleMan999]

once again it's not about realism, it's about gameplay and balance.

Yeah, I couldn't give a shit how chaff works. We're playing a game where spies have a device that turns them invisible and mercs have smart laser beams that differentiate between friend and foe.

Seriously, give the realism arguments a rest.

[Farley4Fan]

Yeah, but we should have some realism to a certain extent I guess.  BUT if it gets in the way of balance then forget about it.

What about making chaff go through only certain kinds of walls?  That way map designers can balance the map by deciding where chaff can go through walls.  A chaff would go through a thin wall, and maybe not through a metal wall or thick wall.