The Assault Rifle Discussion

[Spekkio]

The weapon you choose should be based more on the map not on the other team's equip. If it is a map where the spy is forced to use relatively narrow hallways and come into close proximity of a merc then the shotgun is an excellent choice. If it is a fairly open map but the rooms aren't to big then the uzi is a good choice because the spy can't distance it enough. If the map has big long open rooms then the rifle is a good choice because it lets you snipe. This discussion is about weapons so examples involving other equipment have no real bearing here. Your weapon choice has virtually nothing to do with equipment, only the environment

Two problems:

1. Most maps include multiple environments, ie both wide, open areas and short, narrow areas.
2. The implication is that the spy can get screwed here. Smoke grenades are much better against mercs with uzi/shotgun because they always have to chase you. Flashbangs are better vs. snipers because it gives you the half second you need to taze --> run. Therefore, the spies will start to try to base their equipment on what the merc takes, even if the merc doesn't think about what the spy is doing.

What you just said is like this: spy's take cams because they can KO the mercs, not because it counters anything. However, mercs take mask because it specifically counters cams and smoke grenades.

I suppose the easy fix is to make sure that no optional equipment items directly counter each other.

[InvisibleMan999]

What you just said is like this: spy's take cams because they can KO the mercs, not because it counters anything. However, mercs take mask because it specifically counters cams and smoke grenades.

I suppose the easy fix is to make sure that no optional equipment items directly counter each other.

Yeah, honestly, gas mask could just be a built-in merc thing, because that's the only true counter gadget that becomes completely useless if the spies take a different loadout. Of course, honestly I don't even think that's necessary because all spies take cams, and I don't figure that'll change much in PS, since it's such a deviation from core gameplay.

[Overstatement]

I thought we had such a consensus at the start of this thread. Are people buying this balancing argument or is it just a 1 or 2 trying to argue it?

[Westfall]

I thought we had such a consensus at the start of this thread. Are people buying this balancing argument or is it just a 1 or 2 trying to argue it?

It was stated that there wasn't a consensus yet. In fact....by you:

Goodkebab always talks in a "there will not be..." way instead of "I think it should be...". I think it's just how he communicates and doesn't mean there has been a final decision on it.

[Overstatement]

I mean a forum consensus. The first page of this thread was filled with people thought we shouldn't change it much.

[Westfall]

o i know..lol

[Gawain]

binary, i have to disagree with you. why do you think that shotgun/uzi is better for the gameplay in a narrow map? it's better for the merc, but the spies already have a hard time in narrow corridors. it's like saying a jetpack is good for the gameplay, as it allows spies to move more quickly in vertically oriented maps.

[BurningDeath]

binary, i have to disagree with you. why do you think that shotgun/uzi is better for the gameplay in a narrow map?

Because the spies have to stay away from the mercs and take a different, uncovered route then, moving unseen.
If you get caught by a merc carrying a shotgun in a narrow corridor, you either didn't know or didn't play right.

[InvisibleMan999]

I feel the shotgun probably needs a boost, or some kind of redesign.

The shotgun does its job well, but the problem is that it sucks at everything within medium or long range. You can't shoot out bombs, cams or spybullets well... you are a joke against a spy hacking at long distance (making you very vulnerable to the run around hack strategy). And what you get back is decent, but not great. Close range with the shotgun is what the PT tazer did for you before. If the tazer didn't suck in CT, I don't think the shotgun would have any appeal at all.

[BurningDeath]

The key to dominate a map with shotgun is a good knowledge of the various benefits that grenades can give you. ;)

[Wandering_Youth]

Rifle does not need changing other than the fact that burst fire was not useful at all so take that out. The shotgun or uzi needs some modifying so people would actually use them more often because as of now people hardly ever use either of them at all.

[Westfall]

Rifle does not need changing other than the fact that burst fire was not useful at all so take that out. The shotgun or uzi needs some modifying so people would actually use them more often because as of now people hardly ever use either of them at all.

Uzi sucks...lol

I flamed it...getting it out of my system. Modifications to both would work well. I'm sure the devs are adjusting this.

The key to dominate a map with shotgun is a good knowledge of the various benefits that grenades can give you. ;)

A key to dominate any map takes good knowledge of the various benefits grenades give you. As well as mines.

[BurningDeath]

Rifle does not need changing other than the fact that burst fire was not useful at all so take that out. The shotgun or uzi needs some modifying so people would actually use them more often because as of now people hardly ever use either of them at all.

Uzi sucks...lol

I flamed it...getting it out of my system. Modifications to both would work well. I'm sure the devs are adjusting this.

The key to dominate a map with shotgun is a good knowledge of the various benefits that grenades can give you. ;)

A key to dominate any map takes good knowledge of the various benefits grenades give you. As well as mines.

Yes, of course, but grenades are essential if you want to bring the shotgun. That's what I wanted to point out. ;)

[Gawain]

burning death, you didn't get my point: if there's a whole narrow area/map, taking uzi or shotty is unbalanced because the spies already got a disadvantage in those areas.

as spekkio pointed out, smoke/flash/chaff affect the three weapons in a different way, which is a bad thing.

i think the burst should fire with a way higher rof.

discussing about the shotty is bs, and the uzi is just a no-brainer rifle.

[InvisibleMan999]

discussing about the shotty is bs, and the uzi is just a no-brainer rifle.

Not really sure why people think the rifle requires brains. It's just twitch skills aiming for the head. That's it. See head. Shoot head. No brains required.

The rifle tends to be a bit harder to use for newbies simply because the aiming mechanics take a while to get used to. Unlike most games with sniping you don't remain in sniping mode for long periods of time. Sniping in CT works best as a series of snap shots. So the technique is difficult for some people to master.  Further the rifle basically relies on you to almost exclusively use the scope whenever you can. And that's a skill most people aren't used to.

The uzi on the other hand is your basic FPS gun. It works like any fully automatic weapon on any other FPS game. There's far less learning curve with the uzi.