Possible Sound Reticule for Spies? New heartbeat suggestions?

[Westfall]

why would 5 gadgets allow now balance? it's certainly possible to balance it out, you guys have to stop thinking in ct balance.
if 5 gadgets result in spam, it would be an easy solution to simply decrease the amount of each gadget. heck, i even would like to see the number of sticky cams reduced to 3 in ct.

it takes not that much brain to choose between gadgets before the game even starts, it's rather the skill it takes to adapt to various ingame situations with the restricted gadget loadout you have. with 5 slots there will be less variety in gadget loadouts but more variety in gameplay.

teamplay will always be crucial in svm and not having 3 instead of 4 gadgets doesn't make significant difference.

I'm not thinking CT balance....I'm thinking PS balance. The solution for 5 gadgets is decreasing the amount of use with that gadget. Thats possibly the best point to make for having the 5th slot. At the same time if you're saying 3 r 4 gadgets doesn't make a significant difference, then why would 5? Because you have more? The whole idea of variety goes out the window still. Giving more to the merc is not a good idea.

i also can't see why the merc side would gain more advantage from 5 gadgets than the spy side. with fixed sound and mt it'll get way harder for the mercs to compete against stealth. with the jump-against-grab glitch and the push-instead-of-grab bug removed and reliable flashbangs it will also be quite necessary to take the tazer against aggro players. good spies are also way less likely to die without lag charges and insta frags.

Merc charge against spy while hacking-not knocking him down and merc charge against spy while grabbing and climbing a box-still not knocking him down (both glitches) will be taken out as well (they better). You just helped prove the point too. If mercs get 5 slots they can now add tazer because its workable yea? Any close combat will be easier than it already was.

[Farley4Fan]

Also, variety isn't added by giving more of the same gadgets.  Hence the word "same".  For variety you need new gadgets.  So that it's harder to predict what is going to happen.  With all the same stuff you won't be surprised by seeing anything happen.  Say you put 4 cakes on a table.  Then, you put 5 cakes on the table and they are all the same kind of cake.  There's no variety.  You need to add different kinds of cakes to have more variety.  If you get what I mean.

[Gawain]

it's actually quite basic math: with one more gadget/player there are more possibilities ingame for the player.
of course, creating totally new gadgets would also increase variety but too much gadget possibilities are bad for the gameplay because you have to have something to calculate on. adjusting the balance of the existing gadgets and replacing flares with something more useful like boosted phosphorous nades will increase the variety enormously anyways.

[Farley4Fan]

Umm, no it won't.  You get more of the same gadgets, same =/= variety

The only way I'll ever accept that this idea will be good for gameplay is if there are more gadgets, like 2-3 more balanced gadgets per team, and you can only carry 3 of them.  It would still have the teamplay elements because of the reduced amount of gadgets.  But even if all that happens, I'm still kind of iffy on giving any team 5 gadgets to work with.

[Westfall]

Umm, no it won't.  You get more of the same gadgets, same =/= variety

The only way I'll ever accept that this idea will be good for gameplay is if there are more gadgets, like 2-3 more balanced gadgets per team, and you can only carry 3 of them.  It would still have the teamplay elements because of the reduced amount of gadgets.  But even if all that happens, I'm still kind of iffy on giving any team 5 gadgets to work with.

Nice idea. Gaiwan is right on adding an amount of new gadgets. Replace flares with something. Fix camo. Give 5 gadget slots. Reduce amount of gadget(s). The variety will adjust with new tazzer, new flare, and fixed camo. Maybe add a new gadget (drone/new spy gadget).

Another way: 4 gadgets, replace flares, fixed camo, add new gadget (spy & merc), and reduce amount of gadget(s). Variety changes due to new gadget plus fixed tazer and flares for merc.

5 gadgets still seems quite overpowering. Even with certain fixes to amount of gadget(s). With four gadget slots, it seems to balance  due to adjustment of amount per spy & spy team and merc & merc team. They're lower. This is especially detrimental to the power of the merc. Adjustments are obviously TBA, but can be discussed in another section. The spy maybe doesn't need any adjustment in amount, except for cams. Just babbling....

[Gawain]

papa, you don't get it: more gadgets available ingame => more possibilities for the player => more variety ingame (but a little less variety in gadget loadouts of course).
btw, 4/8 slots result in 70 different loadouts, and 5/8 in 56 which is only 20% less. but this is grey theory and i foresee that the amount of competitive loadouts will even increase (<=> spekkio's camo+snares example).
the only problem i see with 5 gadgets slots is spam which can easily be prevented by adjusting the amount of each gadget.
on the smoke/cam balance: i suggest reducing the number of cams to 3, reducing the slow down effect of smoke slightely or removing the knock out ability of smoke at all.

[Spekkio]

Westfall, that's the thing: 5 gadgets could be overpowering, but then you can adjust the gadgets' strengths to compensate.

Ok, so triple nade + HB + cams is OP (and it might be OP with 4 slots, too, mind you). Well, then you can reduce the amount of grenades or cams you can take, and suddenly you're not dealing with 15 grenades + 5 cams + recon anymore. I'd rather that happen than what happens now: 2-3 gadgets simply take a backseat and are never used because other gadgets become way too important.

[Farley4Fan]

Wonderful.  So you'd like to nerf all of the gadgets so you can have 5 of them?

papa, you don't get it: more gadgets available ingame => more possibilities for the player => more variety ingame (but a little less variety in gadget loadouts of course).
btw, 4/8 slots result in 70 different loadouts, and 5/8 in 56 which is only 20% less. but this is grey theory and i foresee that the amount of competitive loadouts will even increase (<=> spekkio's camo+snares example).
the only problem i see with 5 gadgets slots is spam which can easily be prevented by adjusting the amount of each gadget.
on the smoke/cam balance: i suggest reducing the number of cams to 3, reducing the slow down effect of smoke slightely or removing the knock out ability of smoke at all.

More variety in game is what you are talking about.  Then the next game is the same as that last game.  And so is the next game after that.  I'm talking about variety in the entire game!  Not just in game.  Oh, what should I bring this round?  Holopod?  Pulse nades? Spy Reticule and hallucination nades maybe?  OR, maybe next round I can take an entirely different loadout and add more variety.   ;)  Nope.  Instead, with your idea, you get variety with the same shit.  And that does not equal variety.  With 5 gadgets you can't take an entirely different loadout if you only have 8 gadgets to pick from.  Meaning you have to bring something that you brought your last game, making it more predictable.

[Gawain]

dude, read my post and think about it before repeating yourself 10 times -.-

[Farley4Fan]

Well, I have to post things 10 times because you won't read them or you don't understand them. ;)

read my last post.

[Hyrage]

No offense, but what is the conclusion of this thread? ???

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

There is none yet.
Imo spies could have a reticule, but only if it takes 2 slots.

[Westfall]

Westfall, that's the thing: 5 gadgets could be overpowering, but then you can adjust the gadgets' strengths to compensate.

Ok, so triple nade + HB + cams is OP (and it might be OP with 4 slots, too, mind you). Well, then you can reduce the amount of grenades or cams you can take, and suddenly you're not dealing with 15 grenades + 5 cams + recon anymore. I'd rather that happen than what happens now: 2-3 gadgets simply take a backseat and are never used because other gadgets become way too important.

I'll tell you what Spekk. I'm down with 5 slots if there are limits to amounts of gadgets. I say there should be no set gadget, except for mercs who take gasmask automatically (nice thinking). It might break the whole variety chain, but it will diminish the strength of both sides. I would still like 4 gadgets with limits on amounts, because 5 gadgets just still seems like too much. How would you adjust gadgets strenghts? Won't they have a set strength? Are you referring to amounts?

No offense, but what is the conclusion of this thread? ???

Sound reticule for spy is a new idea. Some dislike it, but some like it. Figure the best way to see is if its beta tested.

There is none yet.
Imo spies could have a reticule, but only if it takes 2 slots.

No gadget should take up 2 slots. The reticule won't really be that powerful of a gadget, just stealthier.

[Farley4Fan]

In conclusion, the gadget would be something to use for minor recon while on the fly.  Meaning you don't have to stop and use the gadget, but you can keep moving (like camo) and it will detect sounds you wouldn't be able to easily hear with your own ears and point you towards them/pinpoint them on your map.  Actually, that's not a conclusion.  That's more like my analysis of the gadget.  I think most people here agree that it needs testing, however.

And messing with all the gadget strengths just to balance it enough where there is a point to having 5 gadgets seems like a shitload of deliberating, testing, discussing, and work.  And even after all that discussing/testing we'll probably find that it's not that great of an idea in the long run.  (And that it was a waste of time.)

No gadget should take 2 slots.  Why exactly do you suggest this?

[Gawain]

the main reason why i don't like the sound reticule gadget is that it's a unique feature of the mercs and the larger the difference between these two sides the more interesting it gets.