2nd Alarm Snare Mode?

[Farley4Fan]

Congratulations on thinking something should be a certain way based on your gut instinct and prejudices. When you figure out how and why, then make a post. Otherwise, accept the fact that you're spewing nonsense right now.
Let him state his opinion.  If he was in an argument then he'd have to back it up, yeah.  Don't be so rude please.  I don't even know who said that, so I'm not taking favorites or anything  :D


Papa: There is absolutely nothing wrong with the fast dive. Yea, you can't do it on the Xbox. So what?

Not really anything wrong with fast dive.  I mean, the crouch dive crouch.  I exaggerated how bad it was.  The crouch roll crouch, on the other hand, is bad.  There is no point for lasers when there is something everyone can do silently get by them.

[Ion.67]

I think that should change. I am not sure how,

Congratulations on thinking something should be a certain way based on your gut instinct and prejudices. When you figure out how and why, then make a post. Otherwise, accept the fact that you're spewing nonsense right now.

I thought that was quite apparent, by the way I said :

The whole point of this is to make the snare a stealth gadget, not a running around gadget. That is why remote activation would be a good idea.

Do I think masking sounds should be a secondary advantage? Sure. Do I think that should be the main reason for taking snares? No.

That is the main reason snares need a buff. I think snares should be exactly like a spy. Not the way they are now. Depending on map design, a remote snare could be a great tool, or a non-sense slot waster.

[Spekkio]

So you want snares to just cover up your running sounds?

That's what they currently do.

I still don't see why you think the remote snare is a bad idea. You haven't given me a good reason as far as I can remember, only that it is good for running.

That's because as long as it doesn't come at the expense of the way snares currently work, I wouldn't care if remote snares were in the game. Although, I will say that if they result in increased merc camping, then I'd be against them. I, personally, probably wouldn't use them anyway, though. Too much work.

Do I think that should be the main reason for taking snares? No.

Yea, I got it the first time you said this. Then I replied that you have given no reasoning or explanation on why you believe this, let alone why it would be better if snares didn't mask your movement. You just made up the way something should be just because, and now you're posting nonsense about it.

There are things in this game that make noise which is unavoidable to make. Snares allow you to make those noises without giving yourself away 100% of the time. It's that simple. Don't like that someone with EAX heard you moving through the vent over there? Well, you should've brought snares and you wouldn't have that problem.

Snares don't need a buff other than being a bit more quiet to fire.

[Ion.67]

So you want snares to just cover up your running sounds?

That's what they currently do.

I am aware, but is that what you think they should be doing?

I still don't see why you think the remote snare is a bad idea.

You haven't given me a good reason as far as I can remember, only that it is good for running.
That's because as long as it doesn't come at the expense of the way snares currently work, I wouldn't care if remote snares were in the game. Although, I will say that if they result in increased merc camping, then I'd be against them. I, personally, probably wouldn't use them anyway, though. Too much work.

If the snares actually made a believable spy, then the only thing it should do is decrease camping.

Do I think that should be the main reason for taking snares? No.

Yea, I got it the first time you said this. Then I replied that you have given no reasoning or explanation on why you believe this, let alone why it would be better if snares didn't mask your movement. You just made up the way something should be just because, and now you're posting nonsense about it.

I want it to be a more useful gadget than just masking sounds, though. Masking sounds can and should stay, just get a buff in the luring merc part.

[Spekkio]

I am aware, but is that what you think they should be doing?

Obviously, yes:

There are things in this game that make noise which is unavoidable to make. Snares allow you to make those noises without giving yourself away 100% of the time. It's that simple. Don't like that someone with EAX heard you moving through the vent over there? Well, you should've brought snares and you wouldn't have that problem.

If the snares actually made a believable spy, then the only thing it should do is decrease camping.

Not necessarily.

[Farley4Fan]

I'm all for making snares a bit more useful, but is making them remote activated really necessary?  I think that they should make no audible noise when deployed, but they ping the merc's radar.  I think that they should make a more believable sound.  Meaning they don't make a sound every .5 seconds lol.  Also, I believe you should be able to scroll through a little list that pops up on your screen and you would be able to cycle through different noises: Spy running, ss shot, spy landing, flash/smoke/chaff being deployed, etc...

But what if you could do something really cool like what I am about to suggest.  It may not be good for gameplay, but it would be as fun as all get out  :D

What if you could make voice recordings.  Then you could cycle through your voice recordings.  You could say things like: "I'm in here noob!"  or "Westfall stop camping you pansy!"  ;D  It would ping the merc's radar like it usually would, but as the merc gets closer to the snare he can hear the recording more clearly.  I think that it would freaking fun as hell.  What do you guys think?

And if anyone was wondering, I'm installing Chaos Theory as we speak, but direct 2 drive is slower than I thought.

[Ion.67]

No.

The presence detector is not necessary, but is very nice to have. This is what I am aiming for, only with the snare. Sure, you don't have to use it, but it could end up useful and fun.

[Farley4Fan]

I said that it wouldn't be great for gameplay, but that it would be fun.  Are you disagreeing with on if it would be fun or not?  Your suggestion wouldn't be as fun as mine Ion. :D

[Westfall]

What if you could make voice recordings.  Then you could cycle through your voice recordings.  You could say things like: "I'm in here noob!"  or "Westfall stop camping you pansy!"  ;D  It would ping the merc's radar like it usually would, but as the merc gets closer to the snare he can hear the recording more clearly.  I think that it would freaking fun as hell.  What do you guys think?

And if anyone was wondering, I'm installing Chaos Theory as we speak, but direct 2 drive is slower than I thought.

I'll camp all I want sucka. Bout time you installed the pos that is CT.

[Gawain]

it's not that snares aren't useful, they really pwn especially against eax&headphone users. the problem is that with overpowered smoke and stickies there isn't much space left for them.

what you guys also don't get is this: with snares being able to make realistic noises remotely controllable it would actually encourage camping because you can't trust your sound reticule anymore. it's not a bad thing that snares are pretty obvious, but without the shooting sound they could actually be used for short, balanced delusions and stealth players had an easier time using them because they don't give away their position that much.

[BurningDeath]

It would be logical to have the 'loud' sounds like running, shooting the ss, pulling out the gun, etc .. ping the reticle and the 'silent' ones like crouching, sliding down a ledge, silently pulling out the gun. etc .. not.

This wouldn't be logical at all. You can't hear these noises unless you're relatively close to the snare. As a spy, you would have no idea whether or not your movement is covered.
[/quote]
Who says how far noises can be heard? Right, that's the dev's decision, not yours. And of course your movement would be covered. Think of the sounds that don't ping the reticle as fillers between those who do. They're not as important, they just add to the believeability of the snares. ;)

what you guys also don't get is this: with snares being able to make realistic noises remotely controllable it would actually encourage camping because you can't trust your sound reticule anymore.

Why would 'we' not get that? Do you need those little, derogative lines?
Also .. it's completely up to the map-designers if they allow camping or not. GL HF camping an objective when there are three others left.

[Spekkio]

Who says how far noises can be heard? Right, that's the dev's decision, not yours. And of course your movement would be covered. Think of the sounds that don't ping the reticle as fillers between those who do. They're not as important, they just add to the believeability of the snares.

So you think that audible spy sounds should be heard anywhere on the map? I think most people are going to disagree with you there.

First, you can't have the spies hearing every tiny sound and not the mercs. Second, I don't want my sound clogged up by a snare across the map. Third, timing exactly when the sound occurs will be a pain in the ass.

it's not that snares aren't useful, they really pwn especially against eax&headphone users. the problem is that with overpowered smoke and stickies there isn't much space left for them.

Smoke/cams aren't overpowered so long as the merc has mask. However, they do force mercs to have the gasmask, so I do think that should be looked at somehow. Either give mercs mask as a free equipment item, or weaken the effect of smoke to closer to PT levels so that you can actually do something when you don't have mask. If I had to pick one gadget that is overpowered as spy, it'd be chaff because it goes through walls.

The spies have more types of gadgets to take than the mercs. The times where I can't take snares are when chaff is absolutely necessary to infiltrate the map (ie museum, hospital). But this goes into the 5 slot things. I challenge anyone who thinks that putting an extra slot is bad to take snares 100% of the time for their next few sessions of playing.

Why would 'we' not get that?

Because it's pretty obvious in this discussion that the people who want the huge changes to snares either don't use snares at all, or never bothered to explore how they can be fully effective.

The limitation to snares is that you have to shoot them before or after you are about to give yourself away anyway because of the loud noise they make. I don't think they should be silent to fire, but you shouldn't be able to hear the firing sound beyond a very short radius *shameless reference to my sound idea.

[Ion.67]

I am still arguing about a remote idea, not quite sure what you (a few people) are arguing about.

If you think the snare should not ping the reticle, or be louder, or be silenter to fire, then be my guest. All I am trying to prove is that a remote snare could work really well.

Camping is all in the map design. The reason camping is moderately easy right now is because of the map design. They usually have two objectives place close together, and the merc can easily run between them. The map design needs to change, no doubt, and that could potentially improve snare uses if you had 3 objectives, widely spread.

[Westfall]

Why would 'we' not get that?

Because it's pretty obvious in this discussion that the people who want the huge changes to snares either don't use snares at all, or never bothered to explore how they can be fully effective.

or just want better snares...

[Ion.67]

Why would 'we' not get that?

Because it's pretty obvious in this discussion that the people who want the huge changes to snares either don't use snares at all, or never bothered to explore how they can be fully effective.

or just want better snares...

Agreed. I use snare, because I think they are fun to use, but I could easily do better if I used a different loadout, not including snares.