merc confusion gadget

[Vega]

Judging by all of the questions you asked me it has brought me to a conclusion.  You are misinformed and you haven't read all posts.  Will it do this?  Will it do that?  How about you think about it and give us a suggestion omnicsient one!  This idea isn't set in stone, it's better to get all ideas out and pick out the ones that might not work and work on the ones that could.

Misinformed?  You mean the constant babble?  So am I supposed to assume everything everyone has said, whether it contradicts each other or not, is supposed to be the final product?  You missed the whole point of asking questions.  Those questions are there for possible situations to this gadget, all of which I refute with reasons.  As with most arguments, this one flew over your head.  If you noticed, I actually gave possible situations, but I counter them to prove my point.

Keep in mind, (I thought agent screaming it would be enough) that THIS IS NOT CT.  No one is to know what will happen with the game as of now.  MT is being nerfed, changed, implemented properly whatever you want to call it.  This is going to decrease the amount of MT whores we have going around.  Flipping visions is common on all versions but won't matter because if a hologram doesn't show up on EMF it doesn't mean it isn't real.  BUT, since your head is still stuck back in the CT days you can only see possibilities and scenarios happening in CT.  THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX VEGA, ffs.  CT is the box, get out of it.  Inspiration is coming from the past SvM games, not an exact copy.

Look, if you're going to use the whole "THIS ISN'T CT!" excuse, you might as well shut your own mouth.  No one has played this game yet, but we're comparing it to CT because that's what this game is based off of.  Inspiration is coming solely from splinter cell and splinter cell only.  It's not like we have a large genre of "SvM" out there.  There's PT, CT, and DA.  Quit telling me to think outside the box, I've done so many times and can look at the game for what it is -- you cannot. 

You thought it was a good idea to leave bodies in the game.  Not to mention that you could grab items from them and move them around.  Thinking outside the box?  The only thing I can give you a pat on the back for is your loyalty to Project Stealth and willingness to improve the game.  However, that comes at a price; your arrogance and lack of understanding of what SvM is.  With many of your ideas, you don't capture the essence of what SvM is -- just some shitty effect to make it "cool."

You could record these in game, before the game, whenever.  And if you can't find time to make some custom recordings then set it to autopilot (goes in a generally straight line).  I've listed plenty of instances where this would be of use.  You still seem to be underestimating the intelligence of spies and overestimating the intelligence of mercs, which is funny because they go hand in hand, no distinct team will be smarter than the other by default.  :D

I've given plenty of reasons why this won't be as useful as you may think.  I'm not going to talk about this anymore as we're getting more and more redundant with each post.

Tell me, what kind of spy will send a hologram straight into a box?  Only a mentally handicapped one.  And I'm not entirely positive, but I don't think there are many of those around.  ;)  I don't think there are any mercs who would be able to tell a holo from a real spy at first glance either, unless the spy who deployed it was idiotic.  It's a gadget you'll have to use wisely.  What's wrong with that?  If noobs don't want to use the gadget because it's overly complex, not that complex anyways, then they don't have to use it.  You have to get used to every gadget to learn how to use them effectively.  Quit making this one sound like they have to reprogram a computer to get this to work.

Oh, and it wasn't my idea.  This idea was around long before I even came to the forums.  I just support it, as do others.

Again, this is getting redundant.  Not re-writing the same arguments.

If you come around a corner, and you see a spy with his back turned and maybe slowly moving, are you going to really try and shoot him in the head?  Why not just take the easier approach and charge the "spy"?  When a spy has his back turned and he is crouched, it's much easier to charge him than to try and pull a quick headshot.

You'd be amazed how efficient some people are on the PC with quick headshots.  As I've felt for a long time, you have much to learn when you change to the PC.

And what is your say on how helpful this will be for aggro players?  Let me guess, it won't be useful right? lol  Don't forget that quick cams are going to be harder to pull off now, and that stealth is going to be a much much much more viable option than aggro.  There needs to be some more aggro capabilities.  What with tazer being boosted dramatically, darker maps, nerfed visions, boosted camo, etc... I've already explained this thoroughly.  I don't feel like explaining it again.  Aggro needs some boost.  This would help it a good amount.

I was unaware that cams are going to be "harder to pull off."  Care to explain?  You have the tendency to make your word come across as official, which I beg to differ.

EDIT:  Spelling.

[Farley4Fan]

I've heard from many people, and I may be mistaken, but there will be a delay between the sticky cam activation and when it's deployed.  Meaning it takes a second for it to set up.  It might not be fact, I thought I've heard that from  the devs so don't take that as fact.  And there were other reasons other than delayed quick cams.  Like nerfed MT will decrease the amount of whores DRASTICALLY.  I'm not using "this isn't CT" as an excuse.  I'm telling you that anything is possible as of now, quit making it seem like nothing but the same formula is.

Leaving bodies in the game was solely a tool for creating suspense and fear.  The backpack thing might not have been a good idea, I'll admit.  But then, a lot of ideas are crap.  Just trying to throw things out on the table to maybe make something good develop from the community's feedback and input.  You've hardly given anything to help the idea - You just go "ZOMG IT"S 2 ComPLCIATED FOR SPIZ and ITZ OVBVIOS!!"  It's not, it's pretty simple, and if you are smart you can use it effectively.  Same with any other gadget, if you are stupid, you aren't going to use it effectively.  Plain and simple.  Btw, nothing is wrong with making effects to make the game cooler.  What's wrong with a cool game?  As long as balance remains, why not add cool things if it's possible?

Your final product argument is weak.  It's developing, you just keep trying to slow the development down with your pointless examples.  You seem to try and make things seem worse or better than they really are to try and prove your point.  (overestimating mercs/underestimating spies, for example).  I could run down countless examples of where it would be useful, and countless examples of where it would be useless.  But then again, EVERY SINGLE GADGET IS USELESS IN SOME SITUATIONS!  It depends on how/where/when the player uses it.  Are you going to tell me that every other is useless because some imaginary retarded spy uses it the wrong way?

[Westfall]

Vega. Ask me the questions and I'll give you straight answers. Recordings would come with already created presets that can be changed by you outside of world lobby. You can't just go in and change the recording because your HD and the game has to recognize what you've changed.

This idea does not defy the "common theme" set up with the SvM series. In fact its still the same. Don't try and make it seem like this gadget idea is "taking away from everything SvM has to offer." Please. When I say keep an open mind, I'm telling you not to be a douche and actually consider the gadget. All you've been saying is that its a waste of time. Thats not very open minded. And don't try and accuse Papa of constant babble when thats all the people negating it are doing.

I will admit, Papa's idea about leaving dead bodies doesn't work for this game. This was already discussed and has no purpose here anymore. Its not that hard to let go of is it? Are you really going to dwell like that?

Also, you're a moron to think that a paused image of a spy wouldn't fool the mind for one second. Please, don't try and downplay it because you have this "I'm L33T" feeling because you've played CT for sometime. Its not a noob scenario, and it was actually my idea to pause the hologram if you wanted to. Post a noob scenario for it, and I'll counter it. It can only be a noob scenario if you (the noob) make it one....get it?

Papa did say thatb there was no official word as the cam coming off later. I've posted it a few times on the HBS thread to nerf quick cams as an idea. There was nothing official about it, as Papa clearly stated, so don't try to jump down his spine.....you can jump on mine tho.

Stop saying Papa has much to learn. He's played on XBox for some time. Doesn't mean he's a noob at the game. There are different things he will be exposed to, yes. Doesn't mean he has "much to learn." If you think about it, you probably do to.

[Vega]

I'm not using "this isn't CT" as an excuse.  I'm telling you that anything is possible as of now, quit making it seem like nothing but the same formula is.

Papa, it goes both ways.  You can't argue that it's going to be very different from CT, when you have no clue yourself.  You have no idea how different this is going to be from CT, so stop being a hypocrite.  If we're going to say "stop comparing CT," then we might as well stop balance discussion altogether. 

It's not, it's pretty simple, and if you are smart you can use it effectively.  Same with any other gadget, if you are stupid, you aren't going to use it effectively.  Plain and simple.  Btw, nothing is wrong with making effects to make the game cooler.  What's wrong with a cool game?  As long as balance remains, why not add cool things if it's possible?

This discussion has gone on for way too long and needs to stop.  You posted your argument, I posted mine.  I'm done with it.  On to the cool effects part; nothing wrong with adding cool effects, but you add non-essential stuff that detracts from the theme of CT.  Simple as that.  I've stated it before and I'm not going to state it again. 

Your final product argument is weak.  It's developing, you just keep trying to slow the development down with your pointless examples.  You seem to try and make things seem worse or better than they really are to try and prove your point.  (overestimating mercs/underestimating spies, for example).  I could run down countless examples of where it would be useful, and countless examples of where it would be useless.  But then again, EVERY SINGLE GADGET IS USELESS IN SOME SITUATIONS!  It depends on how/where/when the player uses it.  Are you going to tell me that every other is useless because some imaginary retarded spy uses it the wrong way?

I disagree with the pointless examples, and I'm not into making this topic go any farther because it's frankly a waste of time now.  I'm not overestimating mercs and underestimating spies, I'm taking the given situation and playing it out how I realistically see it happening.

Of course every single gadget is useless in some situations, but for most gadgets (exclude tazer and flares) they perform well in a high number of situations.  I stated multiple reasons why and I simply see the Holopod not an important enough role to fit in as a gadget.  Not to mention I find it a waste of time.  You're still focused on the notion that I base my arguments on "unintelligent spies" when that has nothing to do with my reasons.  To answer simply and quickly; no, I don't think players will purposely roll a spy into a box --  that isn't the point.  The point was; in your given situation that a spy being able to give holograms moving commands which supposedly gives the spy a chance to escape, were flawed because of the spy's lack of visual attention towards his hologram due to his focused visual attention on escaping.  He's either controlling and watching his hologram play out the commands, or he's escaping.  He can't escape if he can't see his image.

Vega. Ask me the questions and I'll give you straight answers. Recordings would come with already created presets that can be changed by you outside of world lobby. You can't just go in and change the recording because your HD and the game has to recognize what you've changed.

My questions are there, which were to prove a point, but if you want to answer them then be my guest.

This idea does not defy the "common theme" set up with the SvM series. In fact its still the same. Don't try and make it seem like this gadget idea is "taking away from everything SvM has to offer." Please. When I say keep an open mind, I'm telling you not to be a douche and actually consider the gadget. All you've been saying is that its a waste of time. Thats not very open minded. And don't try and accuse Papa of constant babble when thats all the people negating it are doing.

That was certainly part of my argument, but I provided many examples why I found this idea flawed.  The fact that you're telling me to not be a douche and be open-minded is completely ironic when you're taking one part of my argument and representing it as the whole.  Take your own medicine Westfall.

I will admit, Papa's idea about leaving dead bodies doesn't work for this game. This was already discussed and has no purpose here anymore. Its not that hard to let go of is it? Are you really going to dwell like that?

That was simply brought up to prove a point.  He said I don't think outside the box, so I commented on his way of doing so.  Drop the false accusations.

Also, you're a moron to think that a paused image of a spy wouldn't fool the mind for one second. Please, don't try and downplay it because you have this "I'm L33T" feeling because you've played CT for sometime. Its not a noob scenario, and it was actually my idea to pause the hologram if you wanted to. Post a noob scenario for it, and I'll counter it. It can only be a noob scenario if you (the noob) make it one....get it?

Um, Westfall, this coming from you is especially surprising.  Who is the first to admit he sucks at CT?  Me.  I openly admit it all the time, I don't give a shit if I'm bad at a game I never play anymore.  Yes, this is a noob scenario.  The only time this would be remotely useful is if you turn a corner and see a spy so you therefore charge.  Then, you would have to play off of this by having a cam nearby, using camo and having the charing merc pass you and take your decoy at bait, and possibly others.  This will require quite a bit of time and timing and I find it not very plausible (sound?  EAX?).  However, this raises questions in itself but I'm not up for arguing the same shit for another 5 pages.  But whatever, suit yourself if you think this rocks so much. 

Papa did say thatb there was no official word as the cam coming off later. I've posted it a few times on the HBS thread to nerf quick cams as an idea. There was nothing official about it, as Papa clearly stated, so don't try to jump down his spine.....you can jump on mine tho.

I genuinely asked the question and just added a side comment afterwards.  It's true, Papa often acts as if his word means it's official.

Stop saying Papa has much to learn. He's played on XBox for some time. Doesn't mean he's a noob at the game. There are different things he will be exposed to, yes. Doesn't mean he has "much to learn." If you think about it, you probably do to.

I never said anything in this post about him being a noob at playing the game.  He mentioned about me not thinking out of the box, so I told him he needs to "learn."  I don't believe he understands the game for what it is, inside or out.  That is what I meant by "learning."

[Westfall]

That was certainly part of my argument, but I provided many examples why I found this idea flawed.  The fact that you're telling me to not be a douche and be open-minded is completely ironic when you're taking one part of my argument and representing it as the whole.  Take your own medicine Westfall.

As far as I'm concerned, you asked 1 question: when to record. I don't see any other questions directed about the gadget itself. So theres no medicine left for me to take.

[Vega]

I already filled out your last prescription at the pharmacy you a-hole!  You can go on ritalin binges like dimmy!  Hooray!

[Westfall]

oh man....dimmy and i live like kings..don't you worry.

[Farley4Fan]

Like you said Vega, you aren't a good player.  So who the hell are you to say what a good merc would do if he saw one of these things?

[frvge]

Reopened. Don't act like children.

[Cyntrox]

I was going to say something smart, but then the thread was locked and now I forgot it.

DAMNIT!

[Ion.67]

Like you said Vega, you aren't a good player.  So who the hell are you to say what a good merc would do if he saw one of these things?

He is still better than you. He played the pc version.

[AgentX_003]

Like you said Vega, you aren't a good player.  So who the hell are you to say what a good merc would do if he saw one of these things?

He is still better than you. He played the pc version.

and ill add he was good at one point but something something out bla blaa " stopped caring " , then  now is the failure he is today  which = why people say Vega sucks on Sclamers and so on . =/.

[MR.Mic]

Like you said Vega, you aren't a good player.  So who the hell are you to say what a good merc would do if he saw one of these things?

He is still better than you. He played the pc version.

and ill add he was good at one point but something something out bla blaa " stopped caring " , then  now is the failure he is today  which = why people say Vega sucks on Sclamers and so on . =/.

"Vega Sucks" is an inside joke that just pokes fun at him.
He doesn't actually suck.

You are retarded for taking that literally.

I mean, really...
If there is one person that almost everyone secretly (but consistently) finds annoying, it's you.

[Westfall]

Like you said Vega, you aren't a good player.  So who the hell are you to say what a good merc would do if he saw one of these things?

He is still better than you. He played the pc version.

and ill add he was good at one point but something something out bla blaa " stopped caring " , then  now is the failure he is today  which = why people say Vega sucks on Sclamers and so on . =/.

"Vega Sucks" is an inside joke that just pokes fun at him.
He doesn't actually suck.

You are retarded for taking that literally.

I mean, really...
If there is one person that almost everyone secretly (but consistently) finds annoying, it's you.

Whoa boy....whoa *pats horse on neck*

[MR.Mic]

I was merely speaking the truth.