Proximity Mines

[HeroFromHyrule]

I didn't like the idea of planting them on the ground until Westfall suggested planting a mine under a chair in lieu of placing it on the chair.  That sounds like a great use for this, and now I'm all for it.

Changing the angle of the beam however, could cause some major balance issues with maps.  There has to be a line drawn between a clever mine placement, and one that is just plain unfair.  Maps would have to be balanced to make sure that you couldn't place a mine somewhere and angle the beam to where it would be crossing that line into unfair.  It would definitely allow mercs to be more creative, and I love that.  But you have to think of the possible balance issues.

[Gawain]

i can't see any balance problems with mines on the floor on any of the maps i know. can someone who's against it make an example or give some other input?

[Farley4Fan]

That's the point.  No one knows.  This needs a lot of testing because there are a lot of things that could pop up balance wise.  This simply cannot be decided and tested within our minds or on pen and paper.  My main issue is visibility.  Don't you think there's a reason ubi only allowed about a foot off the ground for placement?

[Westfall]

Papa, can you at least try to give an example? This goes to any other nay-sayer of mines being planted on the ground. It will be good to find the bad so we can avoid it without even really having to throw it on the test board. Maybe have a limit to how many you can place on the ground...aka....1 lol

[Farley4Fan]

Everything should go on the test board.  Anything new or changed that is.  A limit wouldn't really matter.  Why limit the amount of perfectly balanced mines?  But that's the thing, no one knows if they will be perfectly balanced. 

A few things that I wonder about:

- Visibility (especially if put underneath a chair)

- A laser actually going into a vent (still iffy on it)

- If they do turn out to be perfectly visible, would they even be more effective than regular mines on the walls?  I know you have more range as to where you can place the mine, all around the floor, but what's the point if they would be totally obvious? 

- The only real effective mine to use on the floor would obviously be a proxy mine.  Unless you place a spy trap/poison/laser mine shooting up into a vent's exit point, there's no real use for any kind of laser gadget.  Maybe you could only make it possible with proxy mines?  But then again, it's always good to give the player choice to be creative.

Because of all these questions and things to wonder about, it leads me to believe that we can't jump to conclusions and say that it will improve gameplay a ton.  Could be the opposite.  Therefore, testing is needed.  Interesting idea, still iffy on the whole thing though...

[Gawain]

example for clever mine placement on the floor:
-----------------------------
                              2           >
                        ___________
               |       |1
               |       |
               |       |
                   ^
a prox. mine on the corner (1) is expected and will be chaffed. a prox. mine on the floor (2) however cannot be seen, too (without recon just like the edge mine), so rushers gonna get pwned if they expect it in place 1. if you find the exact right place for the floor mine, shooting it out in a hurry without taking too much damage wouldn't be easy, too. if chaff stays the way it is in ct, the ability to plant mines on the floor is the ideal fix.
papa, drop the idea that mines on the floor are op in blocking vents (most vents can be blocked anyways, most vents are unused by good players, most players use chaff anyways).

[frvge]

I think floor mines will be too hard to shoot out. Aiming at the floor in a changing z is harder than something that faces you.

[Gawain]

I think floor mines will be too hard to shoot out. Aiming at the floor in a changing z is harder than something that faces you.

according to that logic, mines simply put on the wall would be op, too XD

[Farley4Fan]

You know yourself that this will drastically impact gameplay.  It will handicap aggro players a lot, like that hasn't already been accomplished by the p. nade and a boosted tazer.  I don't think anything should make the jump from the drawing board to the final version.  It needs the testing step in between.

[Cyntrox]

I think floor mines will be too hard to shoot out. Aiming at the floor in a changing z is harder than something that faces you.

That statement is only true if you're facing directly at the wall - if you for example come around a corner, the wall will have changing z too.

[frvge]

Yes, but you run more towards something than you go around corners.

[Cyntrox]

True, I suppose, however, there's, in my experience, a far bigger chance of a mine being around a corner than it being in the middle of a wall.

[Farley4Fan]

When are you ever looking directly at the floor? 

[frvge]

Mostly you chaff corners, or you sneak around them. While running straight is more for escaping, so that needs a fast way of getting rid of mines. It'd be a pain in the ass to shoot mines on the ground then.

[Cyntrox]

Well, mines are SUPPOSED to be a hindrance to the spies... :D