Flashbangs and Smoke

[Snakebit.]

Because if you use them correctly it is really hard to stop taz + flash = hack + run tactic or hack + taz + flash + run. You have 5 flashbangs each life which makes 20 flashbangs each game . I'd say 1 flashbang = 2-3 secs of free hack if used correctly which is 40-60 secs of free hack during 1 match. You don't need that much time of free hacking each round , 10-15 is enough because svm gets really hard only on last objective which , if your smart a bit , you would have taken a small portion before you try to take it as last .

Well, if the crosshair was centered on the hack position before you shock + flash, it's not like the merc has to see to shoot you off of the hack.

I find flashbangs are very situational. They're great against the rifle, but leave a lot to be desired against the uzi or shotgun where the ability to deter the merc from chasing you is better than just blinding him (or not because he has MT on).

You do have a point Spekkio , but mostly people use rifle. If they use shotgun or uzi , those weapons have their own disadvantages . Shotgun is a useless gun on most of the maps exept Bank, Orphanage and Aqua .(Imho) In other maps you just need to stay out of the range of shotgun . For example in club house you can just run in circles if your enemy has shotgun or uzi ( 1st floor / 2nd floor ) or ( 2nd floor around the garden Nd and the normal wall ) You ll be able to take the objective in 2-2.30 mins , it depends on your opponent and your knowledge how to do so . Versus uzi and shotgun THE most important thing is to not get close to your opponent and runing in circles or 'circle routes' and taz really helps with that .

About uzi , yes it is overpowered but its not that super godlike powerful.( The only things that makes it overpowered is 60 bullits clip , if you make it 30 it will just become a decent gun ) It still has that range disadvantage . It won't kill you with a headshot like a sniper would . So you can still abuse taz + hack .
Taz and flash still helps a lot against uzi though that turn during the chase might get you killed .

But coming back on topic about flashbangs . There is a reason why i said 20 not 40 . It is almost impossible for both of spies to do hack + run + flash tactics . Because those tactics require 1on1 situations and you simply don't have enought time and room to do so. If you get locked in 2vs2 than taz + hack becomes really hard.

[InvisibleMan999]

Flash is already getting a boost in PS indirectly, because MT vision won't be super powerful and will be tougher to whore, which was honestly the biggest foil to flashbangs. If a merc constantly MT whored, he had almost nothing to worry about regarding flash.

[LennardF1989]

Flash is already getting a boost in PS indirectly, because MT vision won't be super powerful and will be tougher to whore, which was honestly the biggest foil to flashbangs. If a merc constantly MT whored, he had almost nothing to worry about regarding flash.

Don't forget that the Uzi (I think we'll call it SMG or MP5, Uzi gives me a wrong idea, link: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/02/uzi-micro2.jpg - Does that look like a weapon which can also shoot frags?) will be nerved and the shotgun will be fixed.

So gadgets like these will also be used against these, and not just rifle.

[Snakebit.]

Flash is already getting a boost in PS indirectly, because MT vision won't be super powerful and will be tougher to whore, which was honestly the biggest foil to flashbangs. If a merc constantly MT whored, he had almost nothing to worry about regarding flash.

Don't forget that the Uzi (I think we'll call it SMG or MP5, Uzi gives me a wrong idea, link: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/02/uzi-micro2.jpg - Does that look like a weapon which can also shoot frags?) will be nerved and the shotgun will be fixed.

So gadgets like these will also be used against these, and not just rifle.

What kind of nerv will smg get ? Just decrease the clip size from 60 to 30-40 bullets and that should do the trick . Not so many bullets = more reloads = more wasted time = harder to get killed and easier to get tazed .

[LennardF1989]

Flash is already getting a boost in PS indirectly, because MT vision won't be super powerful and will be tougher to whore, which was honestly the biggest foil to flashbangs. If a merc constantly MT whored, he had almost nothing to worry about regarding flash.

Don't forget that the Uzi (I think we'll call it SMG or MP5, Uzi gives me a wrong idea, link: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/02/uzi-micro2.jpg - Does that look like a weapon which can also shoot frags?) will be nerved and the shotgun will be fixed.

So gadgets like these will also be used against these, and not just rifle.

What kind of nerv will smg get ? Just decrease the clip size from 60 to 30-40 bullets and that should do the trick . Not so many bullets = more reloads = more wasted time = harder to get killed and easier to get tazed .

Nerving can be anything ;) But that's not for this discussion. I just said it so these 2 weapons (which are rarely used/allowed to be used in CT) will be taken into account for further discussions as well, because PS won't just have the rifle.

[Spekkio]

Flash is already getting a boost in PS indirectly, because MT vision won't be super powerful and will be tougher to whore, which was honestly the biggest foil to flashbangs. If a merc constantly MT whored, he had almost nothing to worry about regarding flash.

Don't forget that the Uzi (I think we'll call it SMG or MP5, Uzi gives me a wrong idea, link: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/02/uzi-micro2.jpg - Does that look like a weapon which can also shoot frags?) will be nerved and the shotgun will be fixed.

So gadgets like these will also be used against these, and not just rifle.

What kind of nerv will smg get ? Just decrease the clip size from 60 to 30-40 bullets and that should do the trick . Not so many bullets = more reloads = more wasted time = harder to get killed and easier to get tazed .

I think that the ROF and accuracy have more to do with the weapon's power than clip size. You can taze while being shot full-auto with the rifle; if you get caught by the uzi it's like a tractor beam.

[AgentX_003]

Flash is already getting a boost in PS indirectly, because MT vision won't be super powerful and will be tougher to whore, which was honestly the biggest foil to flashbangs. If a merc constantly MT whored, he had almost nothing to worry about regarding flash.

Don't forget that the Uzi (I think we'll call it SMG or MP5, Uzi gives me a wrong idea, link: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/02/uzi-micro2.jpg - Does that look like a weapon which can also shoot frags?) will be nerved and the shotgun will be fixed.

So gadgets like these will also be used against these, and not just rifle.

What kind of nerv will smg get ? Just decrease the clip size from 60 to 30-40 bullets and that should do the trick . Not so many bullets = more reloads = more wasted time = harder to get killed and easier to get tazed .

I think that the ROF and accuracy have more to do with the weapon's power than clip size. You can taze while being shot full-auto with the rifle; if you get caught by the uzi it's like a tractor beam.

not necessarily true with the uzi because the uzi won't have that rehashed animation that currently exists in chaos theory.

[LennardF1989]

Please create a new topic if you want to talk about the shotgun/SMG, thank you.

[Gawain]

balance of spy gadgets in ct:

flashbang: okay
smoke nade: okay
chaff: okay though could need some fixes
sticky cam: way overpowered
camo : underpowered
alarm snares: strongly underpowered
heartbeatsensor: okay (maybe slightely op)
spy bullets: okay (maybe slightely op)

[MrSneaky08]

Nobody uses Flash Bangs? Seriously.......?

[MrSneaky08]

IMO Sticky Cams are what made Splintercell so unique, it wouldnt be the same game without them.

[Snakebit.]

balance of spy gadgets in ct:

flashbang: okay
smoke nade: okay
chaff: okay though could need some fixes
sticky cam: way overpowered
camo : underpowered
alarm snares: strongly underpowered
heartbeatsensor: okay (maybe slightely op)
spy bullets: okay (maybe slightely op)

Flashbangs : Imho overpowered already . There is not much you can do against taz + flash + hack in any variations . That tactic just depends on ping a lot . If you have good ping i doubt you will be stopped .
Smoke : Smoke is okay . It does what it should do but it was weaker in Pt that small boost to its 'sleeping power' made it an okay gadget.
Chaff : Is fine . I don't want that damn pt chaff to be back . It had 10km range . You could just chaff ANYTHING you wanted off . Now at the least you need to know how to use this gadget .
Sticky : Sticky is sticky . Its not overpowered since you have gasmask . Its your damn fault for not putting it on in time or leaving it working .
Alarm snairs : A bit underpowered item . Again not used as much as others but still very good . The only problem with them is that they have only 1 way to use them . Obviously making sound or switching on alarms . The problem is other gadgets have more uses then 1 so i guess alarm snairs are a bit underpowered.
Camo : Is a good item in many maps . People just don't use it as often as other gadgets so i guess that is the reason why everyone says it is 'underpowered' but i really don't think so. How can you make this item stronger ? It would be stupid if you completely vanished with it ? How would the mercs  see you then from long range ?
Heartbeat : Is perfectly fine . Nothing wrong with it , just some bug for some people. If you fix that it would be fine.
Spy bullets : I always use them . I find them better than heartbeat , if you have your mate running with disc or running away from mercs it really helps if you have both mercs tagged with bullets. The only bad thing may be about not having heartbeat is that you can't do heartbeat + cam ambush so easily as you could with heartbeat. Sensor is endless but doesn't show the merc on the map all the time but on the other hand bullets can end but if you tag the merc it shows him all the time .


P.s Mr.Sneaky aren't you that xbox super fags teammate ? What was his name again ?? Timf i think.

[MrSneaky08]

Thats was MrPoor, but i used to play against TimF alot. Why?

[Snakebit.]

Thats was MrPoor, but i used to play against TimF alot. Why?

Well he was talking a lot how pc players were all noobs and etc . Now since some xboxers migrated to pc , it would be nice to see him playing thats all and showing how good he is.

[Spekkio]

Flashbangs : Imho overpowered already . There is not much you can do against taz + flash + hack in any variations . That tactic just depends on ping a lot . If you have good ping i doubt you will be stopped .
Smoke : Smoke is okay . It does what it should do but it was weaker in Pt that small boost to its 'sleeping power' made it an okay gadget.
Chaff : Is fine . I don't want that damn pt chaff to be back . It had 10km range . You could just chaff ANYTHING you wanted off . Now at the least you need to know how to use this gadget .
Sticky : Sticky is sticky . Its not overpowered since you have gasmask . Its your damn fault for not putting it on in time or leaving it working .
Alarm snairs : A bit underpowered item . Again not used as much as others but still very good . The only problem with them is that they have only 1 way to use them . Obviously making sound or switching on alarms . The problem is other gadgets have more uses then 1 so i guess alarm snairs are a bit underpowered.
Camo : Is a good item in many maps . People just don't use it as often as other gadgets so i guess that is the reason why everyone says it is 'underpowered' but i really don't think so. How can you make this item stronger ? It would be stupid if you completely vanished with it ? How would the mercs  see you then from long range ?
Heartbeat : Is perfectly fine . Nothing wrong with it , just some bug for some people. If you fix that it would be fine.
Spy bullets : I always use them . I find them better than heartbeat , if you have your mate running with disc or running away from mercs it really helps if you have both mercs tagged with bullets. The only bad thing may be about not having heartbeat is that you can't do heartbeat + cam ambush so easily as you could with heartbeat. Sensor is endless but doesn't show the merc on the map all the time but on the other hand bullets can end but if you tag the merc it shows him all the time .

Flash: I think it's fine... can be avoided by using visions which are inherent to the mercs and never run out

Smoke: By themselves, they are overpowered. The only thing that makes them not is the gasmask, so basically between smoke and cams it forces the merc to take a gadget.

Chaff: Overpowered because it can go through walls. Fix the wall clipping and they're fine. I'm with snakebit that the range is perfectly fine as-is.

Snares: A bit underpowered. Should be silent to fire.

Camo: A bit underpowered. Should be more quiet (not silent) to activate.

HBS: Overpowered because it never runs out. Should drain gun's energy while using it.

Bullets: Fix the bug when used as proxy detectors and put some sort of limit on how fast/often the mercs can remove them from each other. *Alternative idea: Make bullets never wear off unless the mercs actively remove them.

Cams: Taking away the gasmask, they would be overpowered, so they force the mercs to take an equipment item.

So I guess the main fix to the problems with cams/smoke is to give the merc gasmask as part of his equipment all the time.

@Snakebit: I think taze/hack/run tactic is way too good on most maps due to a combination of very little security that locks stuff, chaff that goes through walls to take out any mines/lasers, teammate instant healing, and self regen. Flash may have something to do with it, but it's at the bottom of the above list if it does.