Tick Tock - Camo video

[Zedblade]

frvge, you're talking nonsense:

Yes, currently the visual effect replaces the sound. Why? Sound can be heard across rooms, this effect won't bounce of many walls. If you are already in direct-sight of the Merc, that's silly.

what's the visual effect good for if it's silly to activate in the mercs line of sight anyways? why the fuck don't you let it up to the player to decide what's silly and what could work in some special occasions??

There's a distortion/refraction, based on your speed and (probably) the distance to the Merc. It works like the MT-system: the closer/faster you are to a Merc, the more refraction (= easier to notice). However, if you are standing still next to an unsuspecting Merc, you're invisible.

we don't need that. camo is meant to be good at distance, not up close. it also makes no sense to further nerf moving with camo as it's easier to make out a moving distortion than a static one anyways.

suppose ur in a situation were u want to cross from one shadow to another separated by a light. to do so u have to turn ur camo on, but the god damn green-goblin glow gives u away.

damn right.
what about simply making the camo activation noise so gentle that it can't be heard across the whole map? if you allow something like super-eax-hearing the whole game will suck anyways, so don't tell me that you guys have no influence over the sound system and that it blows in this engine, because if that's the case this whole project is doomed anyways.
it's stuff like that that clearly shows you need someone responsible for balance decisions cause you obviously have no clue how small changes have effect on the gameplay.

The green glow is a nerf to offset buffs we have planned. Like the ability to be in Camo during any movement (even full sprint.) Energy will decrease at different speeds, depending on what you are doing. So, creeping along at slowest speeds will very slowly deplete energy, while sprinting will deplete it really fast, but you will still be able to do it for a few seconds. Camo isn't just for using far away, just because YOU used it for that doesn't mean everyone else will. Like you said let players decide how they will use it. If you activated it when a Merc is looking at you, that's your fault for being stupid. The Merc will never stare in your direction for too long and if he does, he already knows you are there. Now that the Camo will last much longer if you are moving at your slowest speed, activate it in another room and sneak in.

In the end, all we can do is test. If this doesn't work, then we will change it. NOTHING is set in stone and sometimes the most logical choice can turn out to be the most unbalanced device during gameplay. So, please hold off on all the disgruntled balance rants until you know more.

[LennardF1989]

That again proves the fact I described multiple times, you guys care too much about balance. Nothing wrong with that, but that's our work to judge. It's your work to give us l33t idea's to make the game better (like Kubanator's Gadget thread, it's one of the most useful ones we've seen in a while).

[Gawain]

roflcopter, running around with camo, speed-based energy drain, no activasion noise, invisible up close, lighting up like a christmas tree activating it in the shadows, seriously, cmon!
if even you as one of the main devs with tons of ingame experience doesn't see all the flaws in these bullshit changes, ps is doomed...
what the fuck happened to the concept of staying as close to ct gameplay as balance and new engine allows, at least in the first builds?
i wonder what other silly changes you guys have in mind oO

[frvge]

The camo system in Crysis worked ok. We'll see how it goes in playtesting.

[LennardF1989]

For everyones information, we happen to make the game for ourselves (hence the name "free-time project"), that we have a community behind is just a lucky coincidense (as just us 13 playing would be boring eventually). If we feel like we should implement something cool looking (in this case the Camo), it will happen.

Just don't forget, what we think up now usually is something of which we think it will turn out awesome. Later on, while testing it, it may turn out either good or bad. For now, we are statisfied with the results.

If you don't have the patience to wait how PS turns out, then start you're own project team and go make a complete clone of CT on your own. I'm sure Ubisoft would love to hear about it, you might even get some real friendly mails from them that they support your project all the way.

[frvge]

^ = Lennard's personal point of view btw...

[Kubanator]

Ok, first of all, it's not final. They can change it as much as they want. They could make it fast, decrease the brightness, remove it completely and introduce a sound, change the rate it drains, etc. they are the devs, they know what they're doing. When the alpha/beta comes, and the camo is useless or overpowered, the devs will change it until it's balanced. Seriously, just chillax. It's ok to try to explain your point of view, but don't force it.

[Gawain]

frvge: just for the record, crysis gameplay sucked. besides, comparing svm with crysis is like comparing natural selection with counterstrike.
lennard: you sound like a little child defending his toy. the aim of this project never was to please the devs, but to create what ubi failed to create. don't drive people away with immature remarks like "go clone your own game"...
kubanator: they don't know what their doing just because they call themselves "devs".
why should programming or 3d gfx skills make you competent for gameplay/balance issues?

if you don't want people to offer criticism i wonder what this forum is good for.

[VaNilla]

For me to have a bit of criticism, the time you can use Camo for when running would have to be terribly short if you want it to be balanced in any way :P.

[frvge]

Correct. 1-2 seconds max. We'll figure out the time during playtests.

[Gui Brazil]

kubanator: they don't know what their doing just because they call themselves "devs".
why should programming or 3d gfx skills make you competent for gameplay/balance issues?

And I suppose you'd be the perfect person to solve all the problems, right?

It's our experience playing CT, each with 500/600/700/1000 hours, that makes us "competent" for gameplay/balance issues (just like spekkio, sithduke or whoever else with a decent amount of time on it is, which might include you), not the fact that one can code/animate/model/texure.

Besides, I'm not understanding why you're taking it so personally when we have already said that if it doesn't work we'll change it.

[Zedblade]

roflcopter, running around with camo, speed-based energy drain, no activasion noise, invisible up close, lighting up like a christmas tree activating it in the shadows, seriously, cmon!
if even you as one of the main devs with tons of ingame experience doesn't see all the flaws in these bullshit changes, ps is doomed...
what the fuck happened to the concept of staying as close to ct gameplay as balance and new engine allows, at least in the first builds?
i wonder what other silly changes you guys have in mind oO

In the end, all we can do is test. If this doesn't work, then we will change it. NOTHING is set in stone and sometimes the most logical choice can turn out to be the most unbalanced device during gameplay. So, please hold off on all the disgruntled balance rants until you know more.

Relax man. Jeez.

Yes, we are basing PS off of CT. BUT THIS IS NOT CT, THIS IS PS and we will make changes where WE WANT TO. If those changes don't work, we will try something else.

If you are so amazingly smart and know how to balance a game perfectly WITHOUT EVEN PLAYING OR TESTING IT FIRST, please fill us in and share you infinite wealth of knowledge.

[Ion.67]

frvge: just for the record, crysis gameplay sucked. besides, comparing svm with crysis is like comparing natural selection with counterstrike.
lennard: you sound like a little child defending his toy. the aim of this project never was to please the devs, but to create what ubi failed to create. don't drive people away with immature remarks like "go clone your own game"...
kubanator: they don't know what their doing just because they call themselves "devs".
why should programming or 3d gfx skills make you competent for gameplay/balance issues?

if you don't want people to offer criticism i wonder what this forum is good for.

Let me be the first to say:

You are a fucking retard.

[LennardF1989]

Yes, we are basing PS off of CT. BUT THIS IS NOT CT, THIS IS PS and we will make changes where WE WANT TO. If those changes don't work, we will try something else.

That basically sums up what I tried to say before...

Rambo is not a retard, he can just overreact at some times, that's how I should call it though (like most of the people here, he's afraid PS will be worser than CT* and tries everything to prevent that). None the less, he's always there on XFire when you need him (like yesterday, Rambo ;)).

* Which would be an epic fail for us btw...

[AgentX_003]

frvge, you're talking nonsense:

Yes, currently the visual effect replaces the sound. Why? Sound can be heard across rooms, this effect won't bounce of many walls. If you are already in direct-sight of the Merc, that's silly.

what's the visual effect good for if it's silly to activate in the mercs line of sight anyways? why the fuck don't you let it up to the player to decide what's silly and what could work in some special occasions??

There's a distortion/refraction, based on your speed and (probably) the distance to the Merc. It works like the MT-system: the closer/faster you are to a Merc, the more refraction (= easier to notice). However, if you are standing still next to an unsuspecting Merc, you're invisible.

we don't need that. camo is meant to be good at distance, not up close. it also makes no sense to further nerf moving with camo as it's easier to make out a moving distortion than a static one anyways.

suppose ur in a situation were u want to cross from one shadow to another separated by a light. to do so u have to turn ur camo on, but the god damn green-goblin glow gives u away.

damn right.
what about simply making the camo activation noise so gentle that it can't be heard across the whole map? if you allow something like super-eax-hearing the whole game will suck anyways, so don't tell me that you guys have no influence over the sound system and that it blows in this engine, because if that's the case this whole project is doomed anyways.
it's stuff like that that clearly shows you need someone responsible for balance decisions cause you obviously have no clue how small changes have effect on the gameplay.

The green glow is a nerf to offset buffs we have planned. Like the ability to be in Camo during any movement (even full sprint.) Energy will decrease at different speeds, depending on what you are doing. So, creeping along at slowest speeds will very slowly deplete energy, while sprinting will deplete it really fast, but you will still be able to do it for a few seconds. Camo isn't just for using far away, just because YOU used it for that doesn't mean everyone else will. Like you said let players decide how they will use it. If you activated it when a Merc is looking at you, that's your fault for being stupid. The Merc will never stare in your direction for too long and if he does, he already knows you are there. Now that the Camo will last much longer if you are moving at your slowest speed, activate it in another room and sneak in.

In the end, all we can do is test. If this doesn't work, then we will change it. NOTHING is set in stone and sometimes the most logical choice can turn out to be the most unbalanced device during gameplay. So, please hold off on all the disgruntled balance rants until you know more.

Amen to that and Rambo is the type of person who ya just can't reason with :/