i am an atheist

[Ion.67]

Farley, either you're a win troll or a complete moron. Ethics and morals existed FAR before the bible. Religion helped literise Britain was probably the only recently usefull thing it does. It also happens to scare people into doing things that if they were truely self-less they'd be doing anyway. Oh wait, it's also caused *DIRECTLY* the deaths of millions and causes irrational hate throughout the world.

I'm a thousand percent sure I said religion helped advance humanity, not THE BIBLE.  Religion was around long before the Bible.  I mean, come on.  You call me ignorant in the next paragraph and say here that this is the only good thing religion does?  Really?

If you study history, you will understand that religion was more of a hindrance than a help. Ancient cultures would spend months preparing to bury someone. They would put extremely valuable stones and sculptures in with the bodies so they could cross the border into a better life. Not good.


I also laughed (and only suspect troll because of) you calling athiests ignorant. Firstly, go fuck yourself if you're going to stereotype like that.

I'm a thousand percent sure that I said I was generalizing.  And I'm a thousand percent sure I said arrogant, not ignorant (though that can be true).  Your comprehension is shitty, why should I be the one fucking myself?

Generalizing = stereotyping in this sense.


Second, I question what I believe all the time, including my lack of religious views. The difference between me and you is, when I do this I weigh up the probability of either side based on actual evidence, whereas (if YOU ever actually even considered you're wrong) you'd just use the "I've always believed this" as a huge way in favour OF religion. Don't say athiests are unquestioning when most athiests in America aren't raised that way - they get there THROUGH questioning their beliefs, religious nads are some of the most adamant delusionals you'll come across.

Well I'm glad you, like me, aren't so overly confident about your views like many other atheists and even Christians/Muslims etc...  Sometimes evidence isn't enough.  You could have all the "evidence" in the world and still not be convinced either way.  Don't say I ignore the evidence as this assumption is based on nothing but bias.  The difference is the way people think.  Some people just don't see a single way God can exist and some people don't see a way that God can't exist, and I pity those people. 

Science > faith. Faith does nothing for society besides tell people not to kill people. But, guess what, basic human logic says not to kill people. Religion is a poor mans way of teaching their kids to be good or something terrible will happen.

I don't think that just because once you have questioned your beliefs in the past and changed your thinking that it gives you the right to be an asshole and act like your point of view is the end-all-be-all way of thinking.  Even once a former religious man renounces his religious beliefs, should he cease to question his new beliefs?  It's like a person believing he's reached the pinnacle of his mental evolution, arrogance at its finest.  (This goes vice versa for religious people ofc)

Are you free from this? You say you question, yet you still pull evidence as a sign of a God, since "evidence isn't enough." What else is there besides evidence? Christians site the bible as evidence, and I will site Harry Potter and thousands of other books containing things Christians can't account for, since it will be book against book in that sense.

[Savior20061]

My head is starting to hurt.

[Ion.67]

My head is starting to hurt.

I wonder how many different colors that quote will end up getting lol

[CurdyMilk]

Ion, you think that faith does not have answers to questions and that science and faith can't coexist...BUT THEY DO.  It is something you need to realize.  You act like people can only choose faith or science, but I prefer both because the way I see it they can agree completely.  :o

[Farley4Fan]

If you study history, you will understand that religion was more of a hindrance than a help. Ancient cultures would spend months preparing to bury someone. They would put extremely valuable stones and sculptures in with the bodies so they could cross the border into a better life. Not good.

Your example was a terrible example of this.  Sure, there are instances of it being a "hindrance", but lengthly burial rituals?  Seriously? 

Generalizing = stereotyping in this sense.

No shit.  I said that I knew I was generalizing.  I said forgive me - "don't crucify me".  And if you think that you haven't stereotyped within your last few posts then you are undeniably high.

Science > faith. Faith does nothing for society besides tell people not to kill people. But, guess what, basic human logic says not to kill people. Religion is a poor mans way of teaching their kids to be good or something terrible will happen.

You must have a lot of faith in science to believe that's all there is.  Ironic?  What I highlighted in bold is ridiculous.  Ignorant?  Religion can help rescue drug/alcohol addicts, give heaps to charity, charity organizations are typically founded by religious people, inspire hope, promote morality, etc...  Of course it has its negative aspects but that doesn't mean that the world would be better off without it - and that goes for just about everything.  Basic human logic says not to kill people?  You can't be serious.  I won't even argue with this secondary point because it goes with the stupid bold statement.

Get real dude.  It's like you guys are blocking out every single thing that is positive that comes from religion and highlight anything that you deem negative.  Why?  So you can feel righteous "knowing" that you advanced humanity from what you personally percieve as blindness?  It's why I said you seem arrogant.

Are you free from this? You say you question, yet you still pull evidence as a sign of a God, since "evidence isn't enough." What else is there besides evidence? Christians site the bible as evidence, and I will site Harry Potter and thousands of other books containing things Christians can't account for, since it will be book against book in that sense

I said I see some pieces of evidence that suggest some higher power, and some pieces of evidence that suggest that a "scientific" origin.  I believe in evolution, and in God.  Imagine that!  Is it really that hard to think that science and faith can coexist? 

As for the Bible, I believe the basic stories took place.  After the countless translations there are bound to be a few holes and exaggerations.  Usually the basic stories remain the same and some details are shaky.  Big deal.  It's about the stories and messages.  Not all of the Bible is meant to be taken 100% literally, and that is something that atheists and Christians alike fail to understand.  There, I found something in common.

[Cronky]

As for the Bible, I believe the basic stories took place.  After the countless translations there are bound to be a few holes and exaggerations.  Usually the basic stories remain the same and some details are shaky.  Big deal.  It's about the stories and messages.  Not all of the Bible is meant to be taken 100% literally, and that is something that atheists and Christians alike fail to understand.  There, I found something in common.

My 2 cents involve this ^^

Religions to me are just a nice way to instill morals on a general populous. On top of that though, it's food for thought for things we don't know for sure. Science hasn't proven everything, and religion gives a 2nd story to it all.

I agree with Farley when it comes to the bible. The stories aren't supposed to be taken literally, but instead teach morals that you will undoubtedly learn within the course of your own life. Be good, and good things will happen. Be Bad, and bad things will happen. The only person giving more meaning or significance to the stories is the readers themselves.

The Bible in this case is just a book of stories created by man. Used to unite people under a similar belief as a way to make order out of chaos. To give a purpose for the things we do, rather than it just being here a long time until the end of life. To prepare people for the betterment of their life. To have answers that are just placeholders till proven different.

We are the only beings that can take something so innocent, blow it up to unreasonable proportions, then shatter it by using it for unjust means. (War, Sacrifice, Prayer, Recruitment, ETC)

I believe Religion is wrong. Not for the values it teaches, but rather what it has and is used for.

[Farley4Fan]

Yeah I agree Cronky.  However, when stories have been looked at from a scientific stance, a lot of the stories have been proven true - or at least kind of true. 

For example, the world wide flood that was talked about in the Bible may have just been a large flood that happened in the middle east.  Like a 400 square mile flood.  Noah didn't save all animals from the whole world and repopulate the whole world, but he did save some species from that area in an arc that probably was not as big as it says. 

But you see as the centuries go by the stories get larger.  Maybe so that the messages behind the stories ring a little louder. 

[Ion.67]

Your example was a terrible example of this.  Sure, there are instances of it being a "hindrance", but lengthly burial rituals?  Seriously? 

They would take extremely valuable items and stones and use them in burials. Imagine better uses for items like this, and imagine what it would equate to if this happened today. The reason I used this example is because I can tell you stories of death and destruction, but that is all too common in arguments like this. An example of a common practice that isn't talked about much felt appropriate.

No shit.  I said that I knew I was generalizing.  I said forgive me - "don't crucify me".  And if you think that you haven't stereotyped within your last few posts then you are undeniably high.

Just because you said you are generalizing doesn't make it okay. I have generalized, and it may not be right.

You must have a lot of faith in science to believe that's all there is.  Ironic?  What I highlighted in bold is ridiculous.  Ignorant?  Religion can help rescue drug/alcohol addicts, give heaps to charity, charity organizations are typically founded by religious people, inspire hope, promote morality, etc...  Of course it has its negative aspects but that doesn't mean that the world would be better off without it - and that goes for just about everything.

You don't have faith in something that is undeniably true and has been proven multiple times to be true. Gravity is true. IT HAPPENS. No faith involved. I don't have faith in science because science is a proven fact of life. I can prove gravity exists in anything I do. I don't float up. Proven. I can prove that electricity powers my computer because it has been proven true over multiple tests and conclusions. You can not prove there is a god (any god for that matter) because there is simply no evidence. No one has ever proved something doesn't exist because that isn't how it works. Let's take for example extraterrestrial life:

I believe that there are other forms of life in this universe that we haven't discovered. You can make points that life needs water and sunlight, and most planets don't offer that. I will say that these forms of life may NOT need that. I completely believe that there is life somewhere. What I will not do, however, is ask someone to prove that there isn't something out there. You simply can't do it. There are infinite ways to prove something is wrong, and to completely prove it, you must name all infinite numbers of them. I can come up with a way that your reasoning is wrong in every example you give me. BUT, until someone finds life or can prove UNDENIABLY that something is out there, it is not true and is purely hypothesis. Therefor, I am wrong until proven right, not the other way around.

Back to what you said, in particular "Ignorant?  Religion can help rescue drug/alcohol addicts, give heaps to charity, charity organizations are typically founded by religious people, inspire hope, promote morality, etc...  " All of those things can be accomplished through other means. Drug/Alcohol addicts = counseling, multiple programs, monitors for such things, etc... None of those involve religion.

Your charity statement really bugs me, since I donated to Haiti and multiple other organizations. You are semi right though: when people give money at church, which they normally do, it can go to a good cause. The reason people donate at church and no where else is because they have been trained to donate at church. I don't go to church, or donate at church, but I can guarantee you that my family has donated more to charity than you are worth. We aren't religious. Church is a means of donation, and it definitely helps. My point is that you don't have to be religious to donate.

Inspiring hope and promoting morality...you are 100% right. Hope for an afterlife makes people happy I assume. I don't have it and don't need it though. Morality is accomplished by religion in a sinister way though: Be good or burn in a fire for all eternity. I prefer my way: make the right choices and be rewarded by feeling good and reaping other benefits. Religion is needed in that sense either, although it does help people.

Basic human logic says not to kill people?  You can't be serious.  I won't even argue with this secondary point because it goes with the stupid bold statement.

Argue it. I don't kill people, therefor I just proved it true. I may not do it because of laws, sure. But I would still not do it. I don't even believe capital punishment is right. Law != Religion. A lot of times species work together and don't attack each other. They don't have religion.

Get real dude.  It's like you guys are blocking out every single thing that is positive that comes from religion and highlight anything that you deem negative.  Why?  So you can feel righteous "knowing" that you advanced humanity from what you personally percieve as blindness?  It's why I said you seem arrogant.

I don't understand what you don't get? Most scientists are atheist, purely because of the field they are in. They do a variety of things; make life saving medicines, make huge leaps and bounds in the technological world, make the food you ate for breakfast safe, etc... Most of them are atheists. Not saying they can't be religious but a good percentage are atheists. I know you will go find a poll somewhere, because I sure found one that said more believe in god. Then I found another 10 polls that said the opposite. I am sure you can agree with me though, in the sense that MOST SCIENTISTS ARE ATHEIST.

I said I see some pieces of evidence that suggest some higher power, and some pieces of evidence that suggest that a "scientific" origin.  I believe in evolution, and in God.  Imagine that!  Is it really that hard to think that science and faith can coexist? 

It is hard when your bible CLEARLY states how life started, in what order, who created it, who was first alive, and so on. It doesn't even get its story straight, so how could anyone follow it? Different stories of the same thing? No, you don't screw up major details (what came first, how Eve was made) and say it is the same story. I am glad you believe in evolution, because it is a scientific theory/fact (theory = To scientists, a theory provides a coherent explanation that holds true for a large number of facts and observations about the natural world. Theory = Fact). Faith can not be explained, mainly because there is not a single piece of evidence supporting it.

As for the Bible, I believe the basic stories took place.  After the countless translations there are bound to be a few holes and exaggerations.  Usually the basic stories remain the same and some details are shaky.  Big deal.  It's about the stories and messages.  Not all of the Bible is meant to be taken 100% literally, and that is something that atheists and Christians alike fail to understand.  There, I found something in common.

Christians are supposed to base their life and everything they do on the bible. How can you do that when you even admit it is wrong? The messages are great, but the messages in ancient Greek mythology could be deemed better. Should I go and believe in Zeus and Poseidon?

Religions to me are just a nice way to instill morals on a general populous. On top of that though, it's food for thought for things we don't know for sure. Science hasn't proven everything, and religion gives a 2nd story to it all.

That is the best thing about religion. It does. But that is only because kids are brought up from birth like that. I know that kids who aren't raised religiously aren't terrible kids, they still have morals.

I agree with Farley when it comes to the bible. The stories aren't supposed to be taken literally, but instead teach morals that you will undoubtedly learn within the course of your own life. Be good, and good things will happen. Be Bad, and bad things will happen. The only person giving more meaning or significance to the stories is the readers themselves.

Agreement. Besides the fact that people DO take them literally (6000 year old Earth).

For example, the world wide flood that was talked about in the Bible may have just been a large flood that happened in the middle east.  Like a 400 square mile flood.  Noah didn't save all animals from the whole world and repopulate the whole world, but he did save some species from that area in an arc that probably was not as big as it says.

Yes. This is also mentioned in many other religions. It could have just been a flood. The Midwest is having a pretty big flood right now. No biblical proportions, but a nice one. You realize that because people wrote about a flood in a book, added a savior character, and printed this book doesn't mean there is a god? I am sure there are many stories that are semi true (floods, artifacts, statues, etc..) but that doesn't mean they are from God, they could have been made by the very people who wrote about them.

[Cronky]

Yeah I agree Cronky.  However, when stories have been looked at from a scientific stance, a lot of the stories have been proven true - or at least kind of true. 

For example, the world wide flood that was talked about in the Bible may have just been a large flood that happened in the middle east.  Like a 400 square mile flood.  Noah didn't save all animals from the whole world and repopulate the whole world, but he did save some species from that area in an arc that probably was not as big as it says. 

But you see as the centuries go by the stories get larger.  Maybe so that the messages behind the stories ring a little louder. 

That's the problem I have with them. The stories haven't modernized to make the message more relate-able, rather they have become more exaggerated. That if a person can't see the underlying message behind the simple origin of the story, then the people should change. Not the story.

Noah may have done what you said, but to throw the story of it to such a higher standing just to emphasize your point... isn't that against some kind of general message that is supposed to be given within the book.

Like if I was to bring donuts into work one morning, but I told the story that I saved the entire office from starvation. Redeeming them in the eyes of a greater being that is called their stomach.

Though I understand the stories were made a long time ago. Life in and of itself was a mystery. No theory was proven, nor is there to a 100% evident means today. People want to believe that there was a rhyme and a reason to why they are here, how they came to be, and what they should do. The stories residing with each religion are good place holders, but to take any of them in a literal and/or end all of sense just makes little sense to me.

All in all I still stand in the same place as mentioned before. Religion is a good base. Use outside of Moral Values and "Answers" to questions that have yet to be answered just strikes me as odd. Even simple things like Praying come off as weird to me. An all knowing, seeing, and able being does... Something one day and creates us. Now he wants penance for doing it?

It's like me setting up a Sea Monkey kit and demanding that they build a statue of me lest I flush them down the toilet.

Of course that's not to say that all religious people hold religion to that extent, just the people who do are the ones I'm pointing confused fingers at.

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

Two things:
1. Two Jews have taken a tour through Vatican. They walk around, amazed by the splendour and wealth. Then one of them says: "They're amazing, they started with just a barn".

2. Religion = BS, personal truths = awesome. Just think about it. If I can feel something, doesn't this mean that it exists? It does exist, but in my personal "internal" world.
That's why some people are going to church, imo. They allow others to affect they own "inside" and they end up picking up beliefs that are not very positive
Another thing to note is that every person has an internal "compass" that keeps them from wrongdoing. However, by breaking it with some competition (eg school), insecurity and moronic beliefs (go confess your sins, and you are forgiven [WTF? REALLY?]) you get some really nice people who would kill you (or worse) for a beer (yes I did exaggerate here, but you get the idea).

Oh and also: did you notice that high-ranked religious "VIPs" promote war and suffering?
eg. Vatican was blessing Hitlers cannons and weaponry.
eg. Vatican didn't approve use of condoms in third-world countries.

Now tell me that the Church does something good.

Oh and don't forget who is the actual sponsor of wars and manslaughters ;)
(no I don't mean only the Vatican)

[Spark Mandriller]

They would take extremely valuable items and stones and use them in burials. Imagine better uses for items like this, and imagine what it would equate to if this happened today.

no dude

not the valuable stones


nooooooooooooooo

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

They would take extremely valuable items and stones and use them in burials. Imagine better uses for items like this, and imagine what it would equate to if this happened today.

no dude

not the valuable stones


nooooooooooooooo

No! The Black Rock of Doom! It must not fall into their hands! I must retrieve it, I will need a party.
*looks around*
*looks at Minsc*
*approaches Minsc*
*Boo hides under Minsc's vest*

"Yo Minsc how abouts ya come wit meh and grab that artifact? Ya cant? Fer a woman?
She pretty? Yea lets go grab her and then we move on for the rock, rite?"

*they move out*

[Ion.67]

They would take extremely valuable items and stones and use them in burials. Imagine better uses for items like this, and imagine what it would equate to if this happened today.

no dude

not the valuable stones


nooooooooooooooo

How about I take your house and everything you have and say I am going to take it and you will never see it again because someone died and this will help them?

[Spark Mandriller]

but my house isn't made of valuable stones  ???

[Ion.67]

but my house isn't made of valuable stones  ???

Your mother's vagina is