Post Ideas for appearance of vision modes.

[goodkebab]

i should also mention,  if i gave darker shadows...spy would really be impossible to see

[InvisibleMan999]

i should also mention,  if i gave darker shadows...spy would really be impossible to see

Well, the problem there would be that it'd be harder to navigate the map.

The one thing I really like about Mic's version is that it allows people to navigate the map flawlessly, while still providing a balanced way for spies to hide from MT.

[B1nArY_001]

i should also mention,  if i gave darker shadows...spy would really be impossible to see

Well, the problem there would be that it'd be harder to navigate the map.

The one thing I really like about Mic's version is that it allows people to navigate the map flawlessly, while still providing a balanced way for spies to hide from MT.

Judging by the first mock-up Kebab posted, it really wouldn't be to hard to navigate the map even with deeper shadows. Don't forget, once you've played the map a few times the major pathways will be very clear to you. Also, an MT vision mode should force you to sacrifice a little clarity for the tracking ability IMO.

[goodkebab]

not at all...shadows make it easier to navigate the map as long as you are not in total darkeness.  The balance of light and shadow is designed by the mapper, and will always allow for light in some parts of the room.

the difference is that I am using the same effect as Mics,  but adding an ambient occlusion and shadow to the same effect.

I just find it to simple and plane without the details.  Also, in the case of Mics method, if you can just as easily lose orientation in small tight rooms. because everything is the same color and not enough depth.

I also inversed the values of the depth map.  I felt it looked better if things are darker within 2-3 meters of merc and lighten up further away.  That makes it nearly impossible for mercs to detect a spy sitting in shadows within the visual range.

I know I was against making the spy invisible, but the effect pretty much achieves the same result.

[MR.Mic]

Also, in the case of Mics method, if you can just as easily lose orientation in small tight rooms. because everything is the same color and not enough depth.

I never had that problem with emf, plus you aren't going to be locked in that single vision the whole game.

It's like you all are expecting everyone to stay in MT the whole game still.

[Overstatement]

Is it resolution and screen brightness independent?

[B1nArY_001]

Also, in the case of Mics method, if you can just as easily lose orientation in small tight rooms. because everything is the same color and not enough depth.

I never had that problem with emf, plus you aren't going to be locked in that single vision the whole game.

It's like you all are expecting everyone to stay in MT the whole game still.

TBH, I rarely used MT in the past. I found the flashlight to be sufficient and even preferred in dark areas. I would just simply scan the spots a spy could hide in close enough proximity for a neck and then expand my search radius. Unfortunately with the Nvidia 8800 series cards (Which I just upgraded to) you don't have a flashlight and I have been reduced to MT whoring. I personally don't even like using MT except when trying to track a spy through smoke or to flick it on quickly as a spy goes around a corner so I can see if he hides right around the corner waiting for a neck. I feel that MT should be utilitarian and situational just like EMF or the spy vision modes and I certainly hope that is how it turns out in PS  :-\

[B1nArY_001]

Is it resolution and screen brightness independent?

If the pallet is done correctly altering the brightness of your monitor won't affect the tonal offset, it should just bump up the brightness of everything evenly making virtually no difference. (Tonal offset, is that the correct term?) Isn't there also a way to clamp contrast?

[Spekkio]

Kebab, if you made that image any darker it'd be impossible to navigate. It already looks like a dark blob as it is, and people can still see the spies.

If Mr.Mic's method can ensure that you cannot, under any circumstances, see an immobile spy with MT, then you should use it. That is unless you can also come up with a better method to accomplish that.

[InvisibleMan999]

Kebab, if you made that image any darker it'd be impossible to navigate. It already looks like a dark blob as it is, and people can still see the spies.

Yeah, people will also get used to seeing spies under this MT. While it may be difficult seeing a spy on a static snapshot, a moving merc seeing an animated display will have a much easier time picking out blobs out of the environment.

Mic's solution is definitely better.

[B1nArY_001]

Depending on the environment, I would have to disagree. The spy is actually easier to spot in a static image than when moving and if there is random noise added to the vision mode it will help to hide the spy even more. I don't care what vision mode you're using, the spy should not be able to stand in the middle of a room and be invisible unless he is using camo. If the spy places himself against a dark backdrop or in a shadow he will be undetectable. One should have to think about his environment when hiding, not just freeze in the middle of the room and be invisible. That takes zero thought and zero skill. As long as the spy doesn't show up when hiding in the shadows like they do in CT he should have no problems hiding whatsoever. The issue one would experience with Mr. Mic's solution would be that there is absolutely no depth to the vision mode making it easy to become disoriented in certain environments. I don't think the goal should be to nerf mt to an almost useless vision mode but rather to tweak it to a more reasonable level. Bear in mind I'm not disagreeing because I am an MT whore or anything of that nature. On the contrary, I don't care for it but I also don't think nerfing the shit out of it is a good idea. It's annoying in CT when someone never leaves MT but it does not make it impossible to win. Making it much much easier for a spy to remain stealthy is really all that is needed to balance the vision. Making a spy completely invisible is a bit to much and not necessary to enable stealthy game play.

[Spekkio]

Kebab's image looks like what we have now, but darker. If that's the case then there's no reason to bother changing it at all. It would help to see a regular render of what that area of the map would look like, but my first impression is that it's extremely difficult to navigate it and you can still see the spies.

I'm not saying that Mic's vision is perfect -- yes, there does need to be some shadows so that you have depth perception. But his method of using an EMF-type render to make the spies invisible would be the best solution.

[MR.Mic]

just freeze in the middle of the room and be invisible. That takes zero thought and zero skill.

Oh right, I didnt think about how people will only be allowed use motion tracking and none of the other useful visions...

[Gawain]

just freeze in the middle of the room and be invisible. That takes zero thought and zero skill.

Oh right, I didnt think about how people will only be allowed use motion tracking and none of the other useful visions...

it only counters mt whoring, and good players will always switch visions. you take a serious risk staying in the middle of a room, so it's balanced and adds to the gameplay.
i think the depth is ok, but a little bit more wouln't do any damage.

the only remaining question is in which way camo should affect mt.

[B1nArY_001]

just freeze in the middle of the room and be invisible. That takes zero thought and zero skill.

Oh right, I didnt think about how people will only be allowed use motion tracking and none of the other useful visions...

My my aren't we the sarcastic one. You know full well that is not what I'm implying.

But, allow me to further explain...

You are chasing a running spy through an open, well lit room. You have MT on to maintain a lock on your fleeing target. His partner is standing in the open. Just standing in the middle of the room. Completely invisible though he is totally in the open. You run right past him and he grabs you. Now, in alot of maps you could flick on your MT for only a few seconds and it would be long enough for this scenario to play out. You don't think that the Merc should have the chance to recognize even a faint ghost standing in the middle of an open room?

As funny as that might be. You honestly believe it should be that way? Even EMF leaves a slight ghost unless the distance is to great and then the ghost is lost in the noise.